The HULK Thread

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The only one who didn't break a sweat in the battle of NY was Thor. For him it was an ordinary battle. :D

Eh... He got stabbed and his landing in front of the team showed he was hurting.

I wish MCU Thor was an inarguable powerhouse, but it's less clear than MCU fans like to make out. In fact, if handled right adding Hulk could finally be what gets across how powerful Thor SHOULD be, if he's side by side with Hulk and matching him in the feats dept. WITHOUT it seeming to be power of/by the hammer.

Thor, to me, should really be a Superman/Hulk level brick of a character but, sorry, in the MCU there's a little to much inconsistency and Nerfing so far. Yes, he's had some spectacular power moments but that's what I mean by inconsistent. Sometimes he does, and sometimes it's just that he's "kinda" strong. The presentation has not been a steady one.
 
Eh... He got stabbed and his landing in front of the team showed he was hurting.

I wish MCU Thor was an inarguable powerhouse, but it's less clear than MCU fans like to make out. In fact, if handled right adding Hulk could finally be what gets across how powerful Thor SHOULD be, if he's side by side with Hulk and matching him in the feats dept. WITHOUT it seeming to be power of/by the hammer.

Thor, to me, should really be a Superman/Hulk level brick of a character but, sorry, in the MCU there's a little to much inconsistency and Nerfing so far. Yes, he's had some spectacular power moments but that's what I mean by inconsistent. Sometimes he does, and sometimes it's just that he's "kinda" strong. The presentation has not been a steady one.

I couldn't agree more.
 
Also I don't really agree that MCU Hulk is "less intelligent." He's clearly got intelligence. He can recognize comrades, form connections with him, understand people when they speak to him, and be part of a team/take orders. He just doesn't really talk (which is probably down to Marvel believing that most of the GA know that version of him best).

Other than that Hulk understands language a bit better you could say those things about a dog. He's clearly less intelligent than the rest, which is natural since he's a rage monster. Anger tends to block out intelligent thoughts.
 
It would be nice if via Asgardian "magic"/what have you, we were to get a peek into the inner psyche of Banner and see a conversation between him and the Hulk. Then we could see later in the film that personality start to come out.

Of interest to note... The Hulk has often been described as Banner's "darker" half. His anger, lust, arrogance... What if we had a Hulk tempted to the dark side in this film as part of the plot?
 
Maybe, if Joe Fixit was involved.


Seems like with the whole cosmic road trip thing going on that we might get some elements of the Crossroads Saga utilised. Hulk didn't speak a lot in that one but we definitely saw the emotion arc he went through.
 
Inconsistent power-levels just come with the territory. Be it the comics, films, TV shows, etc. It happens. He's clearly one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful, of the team (you can debate whether he or Hulk is stronger from a purely physical standpoint).
 
Inconsistent power-levels just come with the territory. Be it the comics, films, TV shows, etc. It happens. He's clearly one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful, of the team (you can debate whether he or Hulk is stronger from a purely physical standpoint).
Hulk is stronger physically in the MCU, but Thor is more powerful. I think Vision is the most powerful Avenger though.
 
Eh... He got stabbed and his landing in front of the team showed he was hurting.

I wish MCU Thor was an inarguable powerhouse, but it's less clear than MCU fans like to make out. In fact, if handled right adding Hulk could finally be what gets across how powerful Thor SHOULD be, if he's side by side with Hulk and matching him in the feats dept. WITHOUT it seeming to be power of/by the hammer.

Thor, to me, should really be a Superman/Hulk level brick of a character but, sorry, in the MCU there's a little to much inconsistency and Nerfing so far. Yes, he's had some spectacular power moments but that's what I mean by inconsistent. Sometimes he does, and sometimes it's just that he's "kinda" strong. The presentation has not been a steady one.

That was an Asgardian blade that wounded Thor and he shook it off rather easily as evinced by his prowess later in the battle. An episode from season 1 of Agents of SHIELD showed how Asgardian physiology heals very quickly. Among Asgardians Thor is the mightiest.

What inconsistency are you referring to with regards to the presentation of Thor's power levels? When has he ever been shown to be weak?
 
That was an Asgardian blade that wounded Thor and he shook it off rather easily as evinced by his prowess later in the battle. An episode from season 1 of Agents of SHIELD showed how Asgardian physiology heals very quickly. Among Asgardians Thor is the mightiest.

What inconsistency are you referring to with regards to the presentation of Thor's power levels? When has he ever been shown to be weak?

Not to mention that that same episode showed that regular human knives have no effect on Asgardian skin, proving that Loki's knife was alien in nature.

I also cannot see how a being that levelled Jotunheim, one-shotted Leviathans and matched Hulk physically is "weak".
 
Inconsistent power-levels just come with the territory. Be it the comics, films, TV shows, etc. It happens. He's clearly one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful, of the team (you can debate whether he or Hulk is stronger from a purely physical standpoint).

:up: Thor is a beast,sure not comic-beast,but very powerful nonetheless.
 
:up: Thor is a beast,sure not comic-beast,but very powerful nonetheless.

We haven't seen the Godblast but Age of Ultron showed Thor generating lightening without Mjolnir. His power unleashed was enough to shatter Ultron's extinction event. In The Dark World he unleashed enough power to almost destroy an Infinity Stone. Later without Mjolnir he single-handedly battled Malekith empowered by the Reality Stone across three of the nine realms. He single-handedly took down several Leviathans in The Avengers while we saw Hulk take down ONE. He raised a tornado in the desert and destroyed the Destroyer. In the first Thor, he laid waste to Jotunheim and shattered the Rainbow Bridge. He has one-shotted a Kronan and a gargantuan ice beast, gone toe-to-toe with the Hulk induced to an uncontrollable state of rage via Loki and the Mind Stone and he head butted an Asgardian power juiced Iron Man a country mile. He swung cars while flying in Sokovia and again without Mjolnir battled Ultron in his supreme Vibranium form. What in the world are people talking about when they say Thor's power has been inconsistent? This is the biggest load of bollocks I see repeated ad nauseum and I just don't get it. If you're going to make a statement like this then back it up already with some facts.
 
Hulk is stronger physically in the MCU, but Thor is more powerful. I think Vision is the most powerful Avenger though.

I don't think we can say that Vision is the most powerful when looking at what the characters have actually done, as he didn't do much. His main feat was locking Ultron out of the Internet, but that's not really comparable to the others as that's just his particular area.

He charged Thor when he was born and was just thrown aside (from what I hear they were equal in the fight between them that was shot) and he does not destroy anything more, or more easily, in the climax. I'd say that both Thor and Hulk do more powerful things in AoU, and then have past feats to add to that.
 
Mjölnir;32302987 said:
I don't think we can say that Vision is the most powerful when looking at what the characters have actually done, as he didn't do much. His main feat was locking Ultron out of the Internet, but that's not really comparable to the others as that's just his particular area.

He charged Thor when he was born and was just thrown aside (from what I hear they were equal in the fight between them that was shot) and he does not destroy anything more, or more easily, in the climax. I'd say that both Thor and Hulk do more powerful things in AoU, and then have past feats to add to that.
Well his phasing, vibranium body, and the Mind Stone are things that together put him above Thor IMO.
 
We haven't seen the Godblast but 1 Age of Ultron showed Thor generating lightening without Mjolnir. 2His power unleashed was enough to shatter Ultron's extinction event. In The Dark World he unleashed enough power to almost destroy an Infinity Stone.3 Later without Mjolnir he single-handedly battled Malekith empowered by the Reality Stone across three of the nine realms. 4He single-handedly took down several Leviathans in The Avengers while we saw Hulk take down ONE.5 He raised a tornado in the desert and destroyed the Destroyer. In the first Thor, he laid waste to Jotunheim and shattered the Rainbow Bridge. He has one-shotted a Kronan and a gargantuan ice beast, gone toe-to-toe with the Hulk induced to an uncontrollable state of rage via Loki and the Mind Stone and 6he head butted an Asgardian power juiced Iron Man a country mile. He swung cars while flying in Sokovia and 7again without Mjolnir battled Ultron in his supreme Vibranium form. What in the world are people talking about when they say Thor's power has been inconsistent? This is the biggest load of bollocks I see repeated ad nauseum and I just don't get it. If you're going to make a statement like this then back it up already with some facts.

Let me start with... AHEM... I am a THOR fan too. Been since the 80's and the Simonson days. So if you want to take this as a dis against Thor you can... You'd be wrong, but you're free to take it as you will. I come at this from the point of view that most in the general audience HAVEN'T READ A THOR COMIC, and AREN'T AWARE OF COMIC BOOK THOR. So, it matters to me that they get across his power and abilities and to my mind... No. It's been inconsistent and VAGUE in the MCU. I run across too many people who are not comic book fans, who know Thor only through the MCU films and think he's EMPOWERED solely through the hammer. He's not been well served by this in the films I think. As for your list... This I is my take:

1- Correct me if I am wrong but that unleashing of lightning was in a "dream/vision" sequence, yes? So... Eh.

2- The shattering of Ultron's "meteor" was impressive but... It was done through the hammer. Great feat... But you will see a trend here.

3- The final fight in TDW I found, like most of the action, pretty lackluster. I don't even remember any impressive moves done against Malekith except that one hammer strike as they were flying through the portals. Let's also remember that this is the film where the incredibly UN-impressive MCU Kurse pummels him. Yeah, Kurse in the comics is a level above Hulk and comic Thor supposedly, but MCU Kurse was not presented in such a way that I think most of the general public would think, "Oh man, Hulk would get creamed by Kurse". Sorry, that's not how that came across. It's a very lame fight to boot. So not only does Thor get pummeled, it's not even all that memorable or impressive, on either side. Thor didn't look like he was fighting at an awe inspiring level but was outmatched never the less by an even more physically powerful foe, and Kurse... Again was just lame.

4- Again... Hammer. He uses the lighting coming from the Hammer and when he and Hulk kill the one that crashes into Grand Central, how does he do it? Can you say... HAMMER.

5- Tornado against the Destroyer? HAMMER. Frost Giant world destruction? HAMMER. Breaking the Bifrost? HAMMER. Shattering a Kronan? Crashing through an Ice Beast skull? HAMMER.

6- Be honest... He didn't head butt IM a mile. Now true, the fight against IM is cool as hell and I liked that it definitely showed that IM was outclassed purely by Thor's physical abilities alone. He would have easily pulled that armor off him it seems. That said... When Thor and Loki go at it in Stark Tower, it's like two normal guys going at it rather than the fight of two "gods". Even once Thor gets pissed... meh. If he's AS strong as the Hulk why didn't his body slam of Loki resemble the one Hulk gives him in the famous "Puny God" scene?

7- See what I remember of Thor battling Ultron was him being choked by one hand of the killer robot and struggling at that, only for it to be a set up for a joke about "distraction", hardly something akin to him going blow for blow with Ultron. When his attacks are shown to be effective, what is it that is used? Oh yeah... Lightning from the Hammer.

This is what I am talking about. Look... I have cut the MCU slack for this as well. When Thor goes diving out of the way of the incoming fire from that F-22 in A1, you can fanwank all sorts of reasons why that is, myself mostly thinking, "getting shot, even if it can't harm you probably still hurts". Still... It didn't help in establishing Thor's physical power, which I would prefer BE at Hulk level. Yes, these are the films, and there will always be changes, and for the most part I accept that. But there has been this strange inconsistency in his power, and I think the overall effect is to give the audience the impression that Thor is a one hammer trick Asgardian. The emphasis has been on the hammer and it's abilities and not on Thor's strength, and I think that's a pretty big part of his power set. If there had been a scene akin to Thor ripping off a tank turret with his bare hands or picking up a huge boulder or piece of debris in Sokovia, then I would say that they have been presenting him as on par, WITHOUT THE HAMMER, with Hulk. But it's been 4 live action outings so far and Thor is NOT being presented the way Hulk has been or Superman in MOS... AND HE SHOULD BE, for myself anyway.

This isn't a casting aspersions on the character, but on the way he has been presented on film. You can call it "bollocks" but I don't think they have given us any truly physically powerful moment or moments to point to and say, "Aha... SEE... He is at Hulk's level."

Which is why I am hoping we get that with Hulk teaming with Thor in this film. Them accomplishing similar physical feats (sans Hammer) side by side would go a LONG way towards establishing once and for all Thor's strength bona fides.
 
Thing is tho it's his INNER power that Mjolnir focuses. It's a tool with certain LOCKS in it that only Thor can release.
I agree, it ISN'T explained like that in ANY way in any of the Films Thor's in and there was a BEAUTIFUL chance to do so at the after party in AoU and they didn't do it!!
 
I also wouldnt say Hulk was in an uncontrollable Rage when him and Thor fought in A1. Hulk showing hesitation when going to hit Widow while she as down and Hulk aiming for a building with no people in when he landed shows he had control to me.
 
But Thor DID still catch an overhand smash from Hulk in the fight (no hammer involved)

anybody else in the MCU would be road-kill
 
I think we will see more of the same in Ragnarok...
Hulk will have impressive feats of strength to make the audience roar while Thor is relegated to Hammer and lightning strikes with a few less than jaw dropping feats of strength..(Can't overshadow the Hulk) Hope I am wrong...
The debate will continue.....
 
Here's the thing... Will they allow Hulk to horn in on the finale or will they leave the win up to Thor himself?
 
Hulk should fight the midgard serpent or something while Thor takes on Surtur/Loki/Thanos

still give him good action during the finale, but not actually beating the bad guy
 
Lowballing Thor by saying that his only feats come from when he's holding Mjolnir is not only untrue, but also bull****. Most of Cap's feats come from when he's using his shield. And yet I don't hear anyone saying the MCU Captain America is a weakling. Mjolnir is an integral part of Thor's arsenal. The Avengers movies both clearly showed that Thor is still superhuman even without Mjolnir. It's just that the hammer makes him even more powerful. What's wrong with that?

I personally like the fact that Thor hasn't been shown to be completely invulnerable in the MCU. It gives a sense of stakes. And he's still incredibly powerful. Krypton Inc's blatant disregard of all Thor's feats and insistence on focusing on a couple of instances where Thor was (apparently) weak is ridiculous IMO.

Every character has low-showings. Nobody rails on MoS Superman for getting knocked down by a random steel bar or Iron Man for getting one-shotted by a railing. But for some reason, Thor is fair game. Double standards, anyone?
 
Here's the thing... Will they allow Hulk to horn in on the finale or will they leave the win up to Thor himself?

:drl: Guess we will find out when final details of the story are worked out..
We are in trouble if they decide to change the Title From Thor Ragnarok to Thor Hulk Ragnarok...
 
Let me start with... AHEM... I am a THOR fan too. Been since the 80's and the Simonson days. So if you want to take this as a dis against Thor you can... You'd be wrong, but you're free to take it as you will. I come at this from the point of view that most in the general audience HAVEN'T READ A THOR COMIC, and AREN'T AWARE OF COMIC BOOK THOR. So, it matters to me that they get across his power and abilities and to my mind... No. It's been inconsistent and VAGUE in the MCU. I run across too many people who are not comic book fans, who know Thor only through the MCU films and think he's EMPOWERED solely through the hammer. He's not been well served by this in the films I think. As for your list... This I is my take:

1- Correct me if I am wrong but that unleashing of lightning was in a "dream/vision" sequence, yes? So... Eh.

2- The shattering of Ultron's "meteor" was impressive but... It was done through the hammer. Great feat... But you will see a trend here.

3- The final fight in TDW I found, like most of the action, pretty lackluster. I don't even remember any impressive moves done against Malekith except that one hammer strike as they were flying through the portals. Let's also remember that this is the film where the incredibly UN-impressive MCU Kurse pummels him. Yeah, Kurse in the comics is a level above Hulk and comic Thor supposedly, but MCU Kurse was not presented in such a way that I think most of the general public would think, "Oh man, Hulk would get creamed by Kurse". Sorry, that's not how that came across. It's a very lame fight to boot. So not only does Thor get pummeled, it's not even all that memorable or impressive, on either side. Thor didn't look like he was fighting at an awe inspiring level but was outmatched never the less by an even more physically powerful foe, and Kurse... Again was just lame.

4- Again... Hammer. He uses the lighting coming from the Hammer and when he and Hulk kill the one that crashes into Grand Central, how does he do it? Can you say... HAMMER.

5- Tornado against the Destroyer? HAMMER. Frost Giant world destruction? HAMMER. Breaking the Bifrost? HAMMER. Shattering a Kronan? Crashing through an Ice Beast skull? HAMMER.

6- Be honest... He didn't head butt IM a mile. Now true, the fight against IM is cool as hell and I liked that it definitely showed that IM was outclassed purely by Thor's physical abilities alone. He would have easily pulled that armor off him it seems. That said... When Thor and Loki go at it in Stark Tower, it's like two normal guys going at it rather than the fight of two "gods". Even once Thor gets pissed... meh. If he's AS strong as the Hulk why didn't his body slam of Loki resemble the one Hulk gives him in the famous "Puny God" scene?

7- See what I remember of Thor battling Ultron was him being choked by one hand of the killer robot and struggling at that, only for it to be a set up for a joke about "distraction", hardly something akin to him going blow for blow with Ultron. When his attacks are shown to be effective, what is it that is used? Oh yeah... Lightning from the Hammer.

This is what I am talking about. Look... I have cut the MCU slack for this as well. When Thor goes diving out of the way of the incoming fire from that F-22 in A1, you can fanwank all sorts of reasons why that is, myself mostly thinking, "getting shot, even if it can't harm you probably still hurts". Still... It didn't help in establishing Thor's physical power, which I would prefer BE at Hulk level. Yes, these are the films, and there will always be changes, and for the most part I accept that. But there has been this strange inconsistency in his power, and I think the overall effect is to give the audience the impression that Thor is a one hammer trick Asgardian. The emphasis has been on the hammer and it's abilities and not on Thor's strength, and I think that's a pretty big part of his power set. If there had been a scene akin to Thor ripping off a tank turret with his bare hands or picking up a huge boulder or piece of debris in Sokovia, then I would say that they have been presenting him as on par, WITHOUT THE HAMMER, with Hulk. But it's been 4 live action outings so far and Thor is NOT being presented the way Hulk has been or Superman in MOS... AND HE SHOULD BE, for myself anyway.

This isn't a casting aspersions on the character, but on the way he has been presented on film. You can call it "bollocks" but I don't think they have given us any truly physically powerful moment or moments to point to and say, "Aha... SEE... He is at Hulk's level."

Which is why I am hoping we get that with Hulk teaming with Thor in this film. Them accomplishing similar physical feats (sans Hammer) side by side would go a LONG way towards establishing once and for all Thor's strength bona fides.

Well this is all friendly debate in the end.

First off, I see a trend here with your arguments by finding fault with Thor using his hammer. I've given you examples of Thor's feats without his hammer but you continue to harp on feats performed with it. Thor not bringing his hammer to the battle is like you going to work without your trousers on. It's ridiculous. Thor pretty much always has his hammer. That's just the way it is.

Secondly, Thor unleashed his lightening in the waters of sight as well as in the vision.

Next, I get that you dislike TDW but that's all your opinion. I think it was a great flick. In the comics, Kurse is twice as strong as Thor. TWICE as strong. How did they need to establish it in the movie? They had Kurse hand Thor his ass. That's what they did.

Lackluster? No more than the beatdown Ronan put on Drax. Further, Malekith told Algrim that once Kursed no power the Asgardians possessed could stop him. Whether or not you liked the movie - that was explained in the movie.

And whether you liked the final battle doesn't matter- he was without Mjolnir a good chunk of the battle and still held his own against a being empowered by an Infinity Stone. Who else other than the Hulk in the MCU could do that?

His battle prowess has been shown by him infiltrating the SHIELD facility against trained operatives without any of his powers. A deleted scene from the TDW shows him disarming an entire band of Asgardian guards without hurting them without Mjolnir. Granted it didn't make the final cut but it's a good scene and geeks like us watch this stuff. The GA does not debate this kind of stuff like we do.

The expression a "country mile" is a figure of speech. My point is Iron Man is by no means a lightweight but Thor was essentially treating him as such - crushing his gauntlets etc. The only way they even justified the battle was the whole "400% - How about that?" thing.

I agree that I would like to see more feats of strength by Thor but we have seen some. As BoredGuy pointed out Thor caught Hulk's blow barehanded. He popped Iron Man's mask off effortlessly after the battle against the Chitauri. He dropped a car containing a family of people onto the bridge in Sokovia. The hammer couldn't do that. We see him hurl a massive table in the dining hall in Asgard in the first film. During the battle against Hydra his kicks and punches send soldiers flying. Also look at Asgardian strength in context - In a deleted scene from that film we see Volstagg himself pick up a car. Sif in AOS kicks a giant trailer across the parking lot.

The only time I've ever been bugged by something in the MCU with Thor is the scene you mention when he dodges for cover under the spray of bullets on the helicarrier. You can make some explanations for it - knee jerk reaction whatever - but it was unexpected. Still Thor has been shown to be extremely durable. The chunk of mountain Kurse pummeled him would dwarf any damage those admittedly large guns would have done. Again in context, look at the other Asgardians. Sif took a straight up shotgun blast in AOS and Loki was under fire at the SHIELD facility in the beginning of Avengers. If they are bullet proof then surely the mightiest Asgardian would be as well.

And yet as the battle with Loki atop the Avengers tower shows - there are weapons that can injure them so a little caution (hence armor and shields etc.) never hurts.

The battle against Ultron I'm not going to get into. I've seen people argue that that indicates Ultron is weak and another group of people argue that it shows that Thor is weak. Personally I would've liked an extended version of that battle but that card was already played during the Captain America fan service earlier in the film during the battle in Seoul. Another one on one Avenger vs. Ultron battle would have been redundant. But to me, Thor was challenged by Ultron but still held his own.

I'm not going to lie though and say I don't want to see Thor reveal his true power. I'm right there with you. But I just don't think anything we've seen thus far in the MCU precludes a demonstration of that power or indicates that it's not there. Thor's very first battle sequence gave us a fore gleam of what he's truly capable of. As far as any "inconsistencies" in the demonstration of his power, in the comics, he often holds back and in my mind that's all he's done in the films.

All that being said, yes side-by-side with Hulk may indeed be the catalyst we need to give Thor a chance to truly shine. (The moments between those two is part of the reason I love the first Avengers so much.) Combined with the backdrop of Ragnarok this could be the best thing ever for Thor fans.
 
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