The Joker Thread - Part 1

[AndyTrevino]

Oh there's also a photo editing program called gimp? Huh. You learn something new every day.

I didn't wanna make it TOO weird

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Depp wasn't even particularly good in Black Mass, either.

Depp was horribly miscast and the monster movie makeup was an absolute disaster for Black Mass. Why on Earth would you make a gritty, otherwise realistic biopic about a very unremarkable looking man - whose unremarkable appearance feels vaguely important because it's hard to imagine him doing so well on the run when he looks like Court Orlok's blue collar brother - and make him look like that. Depp's performance is pretty alright but he's still clearly doing a weird caricature that doesn't fit the tone.

 

[AndyTrevino]

That's fair I guess. I really like the idea of Joker looking like an old movie monster though. Gwynplaine (I know he obviously isn't, honestly he's a bit similar to Arthur Fleck but he WAS the original inspiration for The Joker so he should count), Count Orlok, Cesare, etc.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Me too, though I'm almost completely opposed to prosthetics for Joker. The ingenious work on Farrell makes me more open to it but there isn't really anything about Joker's look that couldn't be achieved just by casting someone with reasonably angular features.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Me too, though I'm almost completely opposed to prosthetics for Joker. The ingenious work on Farrell makes me more open to it but there isn't really anything about Joker's look that couldn't be achieved just by casting someone with reasonably angular features.

Me too. Penguin looks fantastic, but I don't really have a huge desire to see the same thing done with Joker, ESPECIALLY, ESPECIALLY if the actor already has a good natural resemblance to the character.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Me too. Penguin looks fantastic, but I don't really have a huge desire to see the same thing done with Joker, ESPECIALLY, ESPECIALLY if the actor already has a good natural resemblance to the character.

There is probably a cool way to do a permagrin but I find that inherently less interesting than an actor contorting their face. I'm also a big fan of Joker being prone to mood swings, something TAS in particular did wonderfully, and that snap from goofy to furious is more effective if his expressions aren't limited by prosthetic.

 

[AndyTrevino]

There is probably a cool way to do a permagrin but I find that inherently less interesting than an actor contorting their face. I'm also a big fan of Joker being prone to mood swings, something TAS in particular did wonderfully, and that snap from goofy to furious is more effective if his expressions aren't limited by prosthetic.

Yeah, I don't like the whole permagrin thing either. I get the effectiveness of it but everyone's all "Jocker is always smiling bcuz he's sad inside and he's not evill he was made like that"

 

[BigBatTheory]

Yeah, I don't like the whole permagrin thing either. I get the effectiveness of it but everyone's all "Jocker is always smiling bcuz he's sad inside and he's not evill he was made like that"

I don't have any evidence for this other than my Silence of the Lambs theory about them using Hannibal as a main influence for Joker. But I really think we will get the true evil, possible immortal antichrist Joker in this incarnation. It would be sooo fresh. I know a lot of people hate it, but I personally hate the "one bad day" Joker.

 

[Schlosser85]

Hannibal Lecter is nothing like The Joker.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I don't have any evidence for this other than my Silence of the Lambs theory about them using Hannibal as a main influence for Joker. But I really think we will get the true evil, possible immortal antichrist Joker in this incarnation. It would be sooo fresh. I know a lot of people hate it, but I personally hate the "one bad day" Joker.

I like the one bad day take in theory because I don’t have an interest in Joker actually being some sort of nearly supernatural monstrosity. The important detail people generally forget about Scott Snyder’s Joker, who most people I assume are talking about when they bring up that type of Joker, is that he’s full of **** - he’s terrifying, incredibly dangerous, etc but that persona is something he’s creating and cultivating. Joker is a human being driven by something, we just shouldn’t be given more than maybe a hint as to what that truly is. Hell, Snyder’s Joker is even pointedly characterized as almost fragile and pathetic at times.

That’s probably the big thing that makes me love Heath’s Joker so much. How clearly he’s an angry, wounded person lashing out at the world no matter how much he talks about being purely about chaos and anarchy.

 

[Schlosser85]

I like the one bad day take in theory because I don’t have an interest in Joker actually being some sort of nearly supernatural monstrosity. The important detail people generally forget about Scott Snyder’s Joker, who most people I assume are talking about when they bring up that type of Joker, is that he’s full of **** - he’s terrifying, incredibly dangerous, etc but that persona is something he’s creating and cultivating. Joker is a human being driven by something, we just shouldn’t be given more than maybe a hint as to what that truly is. Hell, Snyder’s Joker is even pointedly characterized as almost fragile and pathetic at times.

That’s probably the big thing that makes me love Heath’s Joker so much. How clearly he’s an angry, wounded person lashing out at the world no matter how much he talks about being purely about chaos and anarchy.

Same. I have little interest in a supernatural, immortal Joker.

And to your bolded line, another thing about Heath's performance is how clearly he conveyed that, yet did it in a way that made him anything but pathetic the way it easily could have fallen into.

 

[BigBatTheory]

Hannibal Lecter is nothing like The Joker.

Hannibal Lecter has been used as a point of reference for Joker in so so many incarnations. Not always about his personality, but it has been done as well.

The way Hannibal Lecter is presented as a biological and circumstantial oddity, this completely unique being, who is both absolutely insane, but truly genius as well. Psychopathic, but also clearly capable of empathy. "Charming monster" would be a fantastic take on Joker.

With Joker and Batman, there is a relationship dynamic very similar to how Lecter is with the protagonists of SotL and Red Dragon, where there relationships are undeniably intimate, and with Clarice almost loving. I think that romance angle would be incredibly unique to see them do.

 

[BigBatTheory]

Joker, like Hannibal Lecter should never be PROVEN supernatural, but the film treating Lecter like a supernatural being is what makes Lecter SO remarkable. imo

 

[AndyTrevino]

I like the one bad day take in theory because I don’t have an interest in Joker actually being some sort of nearly supernatural monstrosity. The important detail people generally forget about Scott Snyder’s Joker, who most people I assume are talking about when they bring up that type of Joker, is that he’s full of **** - he’s terrifying, incredibly dangerous, etc but that persona is something he’s creating and cultivating. Joker is a human being driven by something, we just shouldn’t be given more than maybe a hint as to what that truly is. Hell, Snyder’s Joker is even pointedly characterized as almost fragile and pathetic at times.

That’s probably the big thing that makes me love Heath’s Joker so much. How clearly he’s an angry, wounded person lashing out at the world no matter how much he talks about being purely about chaos and anarchy.

I just prefer ambiguity. No evidence for him being supernatural, but it doesn't completely rule out that possibility either. You leave the theaters thinking "maybe" rather than "he's just a man" like with Phoenix or Nicholson for instance.

I really like the idea of The Joker being brought up as a very devil-type figure because I feel like it takes the "creeps out even the coldest supervillains" thing a step further.

 

[AndyTrevino]

In regards to the hair, I feel like it'll be strongly-tinted green rather than GREEN green. Like this:

 

[shauner111]

Joker, like Hannibal Lecter should never be PROVEN supernatural, but the film treating Lecter like a supernatural being is what makes Lecter SO remarkable. imo

Right. Never proven to be but you question whether that’s the case or not. Ledger had a bit of that as well but I’d like for Reeves to push that further. The original Michael Myers has that quality. As John Carpenter said he’s in between a man and a supernatural entity. He’s not one of those things. And that to me is perfect for the Joker. When I said push it further than Heath, I mean no wounded, triggered moments in the film.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Right. Never proven to be but you question whether that’s the case or not. Ledger had a bit of that as well but I’d like for Reeves to push that further. The original Michael Myers has that quality. As John Carpenter said he’s in between a man and a supernatural entity. He’s not one of those things. And that to me is perfect for the Joker. When I said push it further than Heath, I mean no wounded, triggered moments in the film.

Yeah, very much like how Michael always seems to cheat death. The Joker obviously does that a LOOOOOOOOT, so that miiight be a bit more appropriate than Hannibal. To me, at least.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Make him a hedonist this time around. He doesn't need to be working towards proving a point, especially since they already did that with Heath.

 

[Eddie Dean]

The Joker should take inspiration from Michael Myers and have him be the result of a Druid conspiracy and The Joker must kill his next of kin on the eve of Samhain in order to perpetrate the curse.

 

[shauner111]

Those stupid Halloween sequels don’t exist!

 

[AndyTrevino]

REEEALLLY hoping they don't do this. The only part I like is maybe the black eye makeup. Everything else is meh. For one of his goons? Sure, but not for the Clown Prince himself.

 

[Mindreaper21]

No to that Joker. That’s something close to what I’d like to see for Anarky though.

I’ve been wondering, which of Batman’s villains can get away with going full Goth?

 

[Captain Tired]

The Ratcatcher, the Mad Hatter, Solomon Grundy, Harley Quinn. Maaaaybe Poison Ivy.

They pretty much gothed up the Riddler in The Batman cartoon series, and it was ****ing awful imo.

Those stupid Halloween sequels don’t exist!

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The Other The Batman Riddler was fugly 90s/early 2000s Marilyn Manson gothic. The worst kind of gothic. Far removed from the classy, old school 80s Goth of Battinson.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Either way, I think goth is far, FAR more bearable than emo. I know the line blurs sometimes, but some of my music taste even veers into goth.