The Joker Thread - Part 1

[Eddie Dean]

They've been doing the no homo (but what if we kissed as a joke?) relationship for years in the comics.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Not sure how that would be the same basic idea at all.

Well-intentioned guy goes crazy after experiencing events he never deserved to go through (taken at face value, which is the case for a lot of people).

Why does Joker have to be evil incarnate when for multiple decades his backstory involved Batman causing his creation?

..... You can have both, it definitely doesn't have to be either or. Remember the Red Hood Gang? And for this trilogy, Batman doesn't literally have to throw him over a catwalk into a giant vat of chemicals. Maybe here he's inspired by both Batman AND Gotham in general. The city starts getting crazier once a guy in a bat costume shows up, and this version of Gotham is especially bleak. Perfect opportunity for a maniac in colorful outfits to pop up and turn the whole thing upside down.
In a world where Riddler is an ominous serial killer, what the hell is Joker going to be like?

Even MCU altered the entire backstory for Thanos and made him a pragmatic philosopher. They ditched the whole mad Titan who hates himself and is desperate for Death's affection.

Thanos in those comics was essentially just trying to impress a girl. Not the same thing as a character who's usually depicted as a flamboyant, self-indulgent psychopath. That's a huge part of his appeal. He doesn't need any heavy lifting to feel less hokey like Thanos being humanized simply because he has a love interest who was the personification of Death.

And TKJ just suggested the possibility that Batman is as CRAZY as The Joker, not that he's just as evil.

 

[Eddie Dean]

 

[AndyTrevino]

I think if you were to change Joker's gender, the dynamic would end up being inherently sexual. At which point, is this even the Joker?

Not defending changing their dynamic (whatever that means), but Joker's always kind of poked fun at Batman's vulnerability. It's not ACTUALLY sexual but he pretends that it is from time to time just to mess with Batman.

 

[shauner111]

I’m so sick of the Killing Joke.

I will also not hear Venom or Carnage slander. They were the best in the 90’s. Woody looks hilarious. I can’t wait for that stupid movie. There is a way to do it seriously though (why not in a Spider-Man movie?)

Tilda didn’t work for me in Suspiria. I’m actually not the biggest fan of hers tbh. Elizabeth Moss would be a way better suggestion if you were gonna go for it. But then I’d ask...if you’re willing to go with a woman...why not just make her Harley Quinn? It just never adds up to me.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Joker and Harley are very different characters though. I don't think the suggestion is to make the Joker a woman... but to have The Joker played by a woman.

 

[shauner111]

In my mind it’s the same thing. Just like a man playing a woman. It never works. Tilda sounded like a old woman while playing that old guy in Suspiria. All the cool prosthetics in the world couldn’t make me believe it was an old man.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Joker and Harley are very different characters though.

I can agree with you there.

I don't think the suggestion is to make the Joker a woman... but to have The Joker played by a woman.

I don't really get why they'd do this though. It feels unnecessarily convoluted. Why not just add more actual female characters into the mix instead of just leaving them with scraps of male characters but being played by a different gender or changing their gender?

 

[Eddie Dean]

You must learn to suspend your disbelief, darling.

 

[AndyTrevino]

You must learn to suspend your disbelief, darling.

To be fair, I edited my post but...why not just add more actual female characters instead of just having women piggyback off of established male characters and living in their shadow?

 

[Mindreaper21]

It took me a few times watching this to realize that I actually don’t like Dafoe as Joker. It just seems off to me. Even if they went back and added the red lips, I still don’t like it.

 

[AndyTrevino]

It took me a few times watching this to realize that I actually don’t like Dafoe as Joker. It just seems off to me. Even if they went back and added the red lips, I still don’t like it.

Elaborate. NOW.

 

[Eddie Dean]

To be fair, I edited my post but...why not just add more actual female characters instead of just having women piggyback off of established male characters and living in their shadow?

I was responding to shauner not believing when a woman plays man.

 

[AndyTrevino]

@Mindreaper21 Okay, it gets especially stale at times. And he might be a bit too old, but that's about it. Everything else about it is perfect.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Deepfakes are fun, but I don't think you should judge how an actors performance would be based on an algorithm.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Deepfakes are fun, but I don't think you should judge how an actors performance would be based on an algorithm.

As much as I like the idea, I think almost everyone knows what a Joker played by Dafoe would be like.

 

[Eddie Dean]

And he's too old!

 

[AndyTrevino]

And he's too old!

Joker in the Arkham games looks the exact same way, just sayin.

 

[Eddie Dean]

He's a CG character though.

 

[shauner111]

I was responding to shauner not believing when a woman plays man.

I shouldn’t have to suspend my disbelief. If one gender is cast to play another gender, it’s their job to make me forget and be 100 percent believable in that role. Or else they should have hired someone else. It’s just an unnecessary distraction.

 

[shauner111]

I’ll take a 90 year old DaFoe over most of the 20 or 30 something year old suggestions I see.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Elaborate. NOW.

Calm your boobs Andy. I can’t really explain it. He just doesn’t do it for me. There’s been years of hype for Dafoe, though now that I see this, I’m just not sold.

Of course I know it’s deep fake and it’s not his performance, but...idk. The idea of him as Joker just doesn’t interest me

 

[AndyTrevino]

Calm your boobs Andy. I can’t really explain it. He just doesn’t do it for me. There’s been years of hype for Dafoe, though now that I see this, I’m just not sold.

Never.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I shouldn’t have to suspend my disbelief. If one gender is cast to play another gender, it’s their job to make me forget and be 100 percent believable in that role. Or else they should have hired someone else. It’s just an unnecessary distraction.

I guess you're not a Brecht fan then.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Please do not talk about Andy's boobs. He's young, we try not to sexualize him.