The Joker Thread - Part 1

[Astro13Zombie]

Driver is fantastic. However he’s way too tall to play Joker and his voice is too deep. Do you want Joker towering over Batman with a more commanding voice? Not happening. That’s simply bad casting. I wouldn’t expect Adam in this trilogy. And if he’s ever in a future Batman world, i doubt he will play the Joker.

Driver wouldn’t TOWER over Pattinson

I wouldn’t mind Joker with a deep voice.

 

[TheGuy]

Driver can absolutely nail this Joker. A perfect cross of high and low pitch voice.

 

[TheGuy]

Yup Joaquin may just win the Oscar for Joker. And a sequel is likely. Do any of you actually think Warner wants to encourage Reeves to create a completely separate, younger Joker portrayed by another actor? No chance in hell. Not after seeing the Golden Globes and how it’s all turning out for Joaquin Phoenix. He’s the talk of the town right now. It is literally Heath Ledger all over again. This is like if Heath had lived, still won his Oscar, and some filmmaker wanted to make a Joker origin movie with a different actor from a different time period. Sounds dumb right?

Driver is fantastic. However he’s way too tall to play Joker and his voice is too deep. Do you want Joker towering over Batman with a more commanding voice? Not happening. That’s simply bad casting. I wouldn’t expect Adam in this trilogy. And if he’s ever in a future Batman world, i doubt he will play the Joker.

A solo Lex Luthor film on the other hand..I can see Adam Driver doing that and killing it.

k

 

[shauner111]

I assumed Driver was an inch taller than Affleck. Is he really 6’2? I still don’t like Joker being the same height or taller than Bats. That kind of physical intimidation is not what comes to mind when I think of Joker.

For me it’s Joaquin or nobody.

 

[TheGuy]

As long as he doesn't look as jacked as Pattinson, his physique will be fine.

 

[DKDetective]

Personally, I have no interest in seeing Arthur being shoehorn-ed into Reeves' Gotham. It is a very specific take on the character and I do not think it would work in Reeves' world. The last thing I want is another Joker who is a generation older than Bruce. Batman and the Joker work best when they are contemporaries. If Reeves knocks it out of the park, I would much rather him being given the opportunity to give us his own take on Batman's archnemesis.

And no, there is no way that Phoenix is going to be willing to play another version of the Joker separate from Arthur. Arthur was developed by Phoenix in collaboration with Phillips. It is Phoenix's take on the character. He is not going to want to develop a completely new take on the same character as some have suggested in the past.

 

[Invader Joker]

I still feel like generations and ages don't matter at all for Batman vs Joker's dynamic. In the comics no one even knows Joker's age.

 

[C Prometheus]

I still feel like generations and ages don't matter at all for Batman vs Joker's dynamic. In the comics no one even knows Joker's age.

Yeah, Nicholson's Joker was already a full grown man when he murdered the Waynes in the Burton films and DCAU Joker always seemed to be a few years older than Bruce too.

 

[Schlosser85]

I don't see why or how it would be some great travesty if the very specific stand-alone Joker variant named Arthur Fleck doesn't show up in a wider Batman universe, especially considering there's already different castings and continuities between them.

Just because something works on its own doesn't mean it would fit in shoehorned into a straightforward Batman movie, and Reeves isn't or shouldn't be obligated to accomodate something he had nothing to do with.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Why would anyone want Phoenix's Joker in this Batman movie? Arthur is more of a screw up than the clown prince of crime. Like trying to take Travis Bickle and putting him in The Dark Knight.

 

[shauner111]

Why would anyone want Phoenix's Joker in this Batman movie? Arthur is more of a screw up than the clown prince of crime. Like trying to take Travis Bickle and putting him in The Dark Knight.

Travis Bickle didn’t become a cackling Joker. Why would anyone NOT want him to mix up with Battinson? One of, if not possibly the greatest actor of his generation. Does everyone think ANY version of Joker wasn’t a screw up at some point in his life? That’s most likely how Joker became so hateful in the first place. It was an origin story. A sequel would explore him becoming the clown prince of crime. If he ever met up with Batman, he’d be that prince for a long time already. It’s not like there would be zero development from 1981 to meeting Batman.

You can’t take the 81’ Joker and throw him into The Batman. I agree. But you can take whatever he’s going to evolve into, in a Joker 2, and toss him into a Batman 2.

 

[WatchProtect]

Or you could (in a lot less effort) get a new joker for the third film, skip a backstory that's not needed, get an actor who's fine with a recurring role, skip any nonsense timeline adjusting, and make another great version of the character

 

[Art Vandelay]

Travis Bickle didn’t become a cackling Joker. Why would anyone NOT want him to mix up with Battinson?

Because it wouldn't make a lick of sense. While we have no idea what "The Batman" will be in terms of tone, it's unlikely to be another gritty character study. I mention Travis Bickle not as a comparison to Arthur Fleck but that the two characters belong to very similar worlds. And the reason these characters work so well is partly because they feel like they could be real people, like they could exist in our reality.

Despite the Joker being a comic book character, "Joker" wasn't a comic book movie. While you could evolve the character, I think it would end up turning that version of him into something completely different, losing what made him so different in the first place.

 

[shauner111]

Eh it’s still a comic book movie. Don’t let the marketing fool you. And comic book movies can be grounded, look at Nolan and his Bruce Wayne and Joker. They felt like real people too. Joker’s Gotham was still heightened with the pollution and corruption. It only doesn’t make a lick of sense, if the timeline is off. We’ve already heard ppl on the inside say it’ll be closer to Joker than we think, instead of the regular DCEU that we’ve been used to since 2013.

Developing a character is necessary. Doesn’t mean Arthur will be unrecognizable if hes sitting across a table from a young Batman.

It’s still a business. It’s not easier to scrap Joaquin in favour of a new Joker in 3 years, around the time Joker 2 is getting buzz. That’s stupidity from a business standpoint if you ask me.

 

[WatchProtect]

Joaquin doesn't want to. It doesn't matter what you think is stupid. Joker was a great movie. Let it be it's own thing and don't bridge feel the need to make things connected because you lack the imagination to think of a better story

 

[shauner111]

Joaquin never said that.

 

[C Prometheus]

Eh it’s still a comic book movie. Don’t let the marketing fool you. And comic book movies can be grounded, look at Nolan and his Bruce Wayne and Joker. They felt like real people too. Joker’s Gotham was still heightened with the pollution and corruption. It only doesn’t make a lick of sense, if the timeline is off. We’ve already heard ppl on the inside say it’ll be closer to Joker than we think, instead of the regular DCEU that we’ve been used to since 2013.

Developing a character is necessary. Doesn’t mean Arthur will be unrecognizable if hes sitting across a table from a young Batman.

It’s still a business. It’s not easier to scrap Joaquin in favour of a new Joker in 3 years, around the time Joker 2 is getting buzz. That’s stupidity from a business standpoint if you ask me.

Honestly, if Joaquin does come back as Joker in one of Matt Reeves' future films to face off against Pattinson's Batman, I'd wager on it being a different incarnation of the character than Arthur Fleck, similar to how Feige brought JK Simmons back to play a very different version of JJ Jameson than the one from the Raimi films.

Not that I'd be opposed to seeing Joaquin back. He was fantastic in the part and has shown some great enthusiasm for the part.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Eh it’s still a comic book movie.

Eh, not really. Remove the name Joker, and the references to the Wayans, and this bears little resemblance to modern superhero movies. No real villain, no great stakes, no action. Gotham wasn't at all "heightened". Certainly no more than 1980's New York. Can you really see Mr. Freeze, or the Riddler in that version of Gotham, because I can't.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Eh, not really. Remove the name Joker, and the references to the Wayans, and this bears little resemblance to modern superhero movies. No real villain, no great stakes, no action. Gotham wasn't at all "heightened". Certainly no more than 1980's New York. Can you really see Mr. Freeze, or the Riddler in that version of Gotham, because I can't.

“Remove the things that make it a comic book movie, then it’s not a comic book movie.”

Brilliant.

 

[David H.]

There’s certainly a very obvious and very annoying version of Riddler to be found in the Joker-verse.

 

[shauner111]

Lmao take away Batman and Joker in The Dark Knight and it’s not a comic book movie anymore! You can’t see Mr Freeze in that movie either. Bad argument pal. It may not have as much action, smaller budget, but it’s still a comic book movie.

 

[Boom]

Joker is a comic-book movie whether the filmmakers want to admit it or not. It's based on a comic-book IP. The fact that it takes liberties with the established canon is moot.

Having said that, I also don't get a sense from Phoenix that he has interest in an actual Batman movie.

 

[Invader Joker]

Gently reminder that none of us have any idea what Phoenix wants.
He seems interested in exploring the character a bit more. That's it, that's all we know. We should perhaps stop going in circles trying to read his mind.

 

[TheGuy]

Those advocating Phoenix, him or bust, really are underselling Reeves' writing. Koba is a freaking good villain. So was The Colonel, Dreyfus, and Red.

 

[Jekecy]

Those advocating Phoenix, him or bust, really are underselling Reeves' writing. Koba is a freaking good villain. So was The Colonel, Malcolm, and Red.

i don't doubt Reeves' writing, just the likelihood we'll get an actor of the same caliber as Phoenix.

But who knows, I never considered Ledger a masterclass actor (even after Brokeback), and he pulled out a mythic Joker performance.