The Joker Thread - Part 1

[TheGuy]

i don't doubt Reeves' writing, just the likelihood we'll get an actor of the same caliber as Phoenix.

But who knows, I never considered Ledger a masterclass actor (even after Brokeback), and he pulled out a mythic Joker performance.

Reeves would be gunning for a quality actor for sure. A character with the possibility of winning 2 Oscars from 2 different actors assures we'll get someone with serious pedigree. WB will demand no less IMO.

 

[Boom]

I'm still waiting for a take on The Joker that is basically the Devil incarnate. Even Ledger's Joker had a logic and ideology to him. I want pure, senseless evil.

 

[Invader Joker]

I'm still waiting for a take on The Joker that is basically the Devil incarnate. Even Ledger's Joker had a logic and ideology behind his actions. I want pure, senseless evil.

Yeah, I want a Joker like the Arkham games and most comics, in which just takes genuine glee and joy on being a complete and total piece of ****. In which he literally sees everything as a game to just cause suffering.

 

[DKDetective]

i don't doubt Reeves' writing, just the likelihood we'll get an actor of the same caliber as Phoenix.

But who knows, I never considered Ledger a masterclass actor (even after Brokeback), and he pulled out a mythic Joker performance.

Phoenix is a phenomenal actor, but I don't find his turn as Arthur as among his best... (ducks)
To be honest, I found it overacted and forced. (ducks again)

I found Ledger's choices much more interesting and captivating. I think Reeves, given full freedom to write and cast his own Joker, will give us something much more fitting for his vision of Gotham and likely of at least equal quality to Phoenix's performance.

 

[Invader Joker]

Caesar's Romero Joker was the prankster, Nicholson's was the crime boss, Ledger was the mastermind anarchist, Leto was the idiot gangsta, and Phoenix was the mentally ill.

These are all fine interpretations of the Joker that express one or another part of the character (except for Leto, he sucked) but we've yet to see the clown prince of crime, the one we've typically seen in most main continuity comics during the last 45 years, the one we saw in the animated series, the one we saw in the Arkham games. The Mark Hamill, Troy Baker-esque Joker.

I wanna see that Joker on the big screen.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah, I want a Joker like the Arkham games and most comics, in which just takes genuine glee and joy on being a complete and total piece of ****. In which he literally sees everything as a game to just cause suffering.

You just described Heath’s Joker.

 

[Jekecy]

Nicholson was as "Clown Prince" as you can be. I don't know how the fanbase consistently underrates his performance more than mainstream.

 

[TheGuy]

You just described Heath’s Joker.

Yeah. Just because Heath's Joker was more upfront about his philosophy does not lessen him as an evil character. Defining a joker interpretation in broad stroke such as pure evil isn't particularly accurate. Lol.

 

[shauner111]

Phoenix will nail the prince of crime in a sequel and peeps will be begging for him to enter Reeves’ world.

 

[Invader Joker]

You just described Heath’s Joker.

Superficially, yeah, but in terms of demeanor and attitude he's different from the Joker we've seen in the Arkham games and comics.

 

[Invader Joker]

Nicholson was as "Clown Prince" as you can be. I don't know how the fanbase consistently underrates his performance more than mainstream.

He was a crime boss with a shtick and a huge obsession with Vicki Vale. He captured some of the elements of the character but I'd hardly call him the same one we've seen in comics, videogames and animated series.

 

[David H.]

Those advocating Phoenix, him or bust, really are underselling Reeves' writing. Koba is a freaking good villain. So was The Colonel, Malcolm, and Red.

Im still kind of awed by Dawn of the Planet of the Apes’ inclusion of Dreyfus looking through old photos of his family when the power is restored to the human colony. It just doesn’t feel like something you see in blockbusters anymore, and this a tertiary character, mind you. With an actor like Oldman in the role, the pain the character felt resonated through the theater. I honestly chocked up.

 

[TheGuy]

Superficially, yeah, but in terms of demeanor and attitude he's different from the Joker we've seen in the Arkham games and comics.

What? Heath's Joker captured the best trait of the comic Joker. Frankly, the superficial trait of Joker is being a prankster or comedian. Joker is yang as to Batman's yin. TDK perfectly encapsulates that dynamic. That dynamic alone is what makes Joker work as we know him to be. He's out there to make Batman's life a living hell.

 

[Invader Joker]

What? Heath's Joker captured the best traits of the comic Joker. Frankly, the superficial trait of Joker is being a prankster or comedian. Joker is yang as to Batman's yin. TDK perfectly encapsulates that dynamic. That dynamic alone is what makes Joker work as we know him to be. He's out there to make Batman's life a living hell.

And I like that. I just wanna see the comedian/prankster mixed with the anarchist.

 

[Schlosser85]

He was a crime boss with a shtick and a huge obsession with Vicki Vale. He captured some of the elements of the character but I'd hardly call him the same one we've seen in comics, videogames and animated series.

Ledger's Joker, while not 100% comic accurate, is in terms of his personality and modus operandi easily more comic accurate than Nicholson, IMO.

 

[Schlosser85]

Im still kind of awed by Dawn of the Planet of the Apes’ inclusion of Dreyfus looking through old photos of his family when the power is restored to the human colony. It just doesn’t feel like something you see in blockbusters anymore, and this a tertiary character, mind you. With an actor like Oldman in the role, the pain the character felt resonated through the theater. I honestly chocked up.

That single moment was some of the best acting Gary Oldman had done in a long time.

 

[Iceman]

i don't doubt Reeves' writing, just the likelihood we'll get an actor of the same caliber as Phoenix.

But who knows, I never considered Ledger a masterclass actor (even after Brokeback), and he pulled out a mythic Joker performance.

Joker is the ultimate material for many actors to give their best IMO, and I think many could give us a good Joker. That said there are only so many actors out there of Phoenix calibre.

 

[The Guard]

I'm starting to think it would be cool if Phoenix did a Joker franchise with a series of "multiple choice" origin elements, and then, with The Joker being teased/built up throughout several films, showed up in Reeves' franchise as a completely different version of The Joker.

 

[Jekecy]

I'm starting to think it would be cool if Phoenix did a Joker franchise with a series of "multiple choice" origin elements, and then, with The Joker being teased/built up throughout several films, showed up in Reeves' franchise as a completely different version of The Joker.

Now this I could jive with. I’ve always dreamed of a story which Bruce tries to trace Joker’s origins but always runs into more dead-ends or alleyways.

Having the audience be informed of where some of the clues lead, and still be left in the dark, would be an exciting new way into a mystery.

 

[The Guard]

Or, you could lead people to believe that's what was going to happen, but April Fool's, it's Jared Leto!

 

[Iceman]

And I like that. I just wanna see the comedian/prankster mixed with the anarchist.

He had some good dark comedy.

 

[WatchProtect]

Its a shame because I feel under damn near ANY other direction, Leto could have made a really good Joker. Maybe not Ledger or Phoenix lever but still pretty good. Now people just relentlessly **** on him for no reason.

 

[Schlosser85]

Its a shame because I feel under damn near ANY other direction, Leto could have made a really good Joker. Maybe not Ledger or Phoenix lever but still pretty good.

Even after that awful pic came out, I still wasn't too concerned about Leto's performance, no matter how much I disliked the aesthetic. Then, nope, his performance was awful too.

I've defended him (sort of) in the past and said I still think he could have been a good Joker, he just.....wasn't.

But part of me also kinda feels like his Oscar win for Dallas Buyers Club went to his head and inflated his ego/pretentiousness, and his recent performances have suffered for it. He wasn't very good in Blade Runner 2049 either and came off really overly affected.

 

[Art Vandelay]

“Remove the things that make it a comic book movie, then it’s not a comic book movie.”

Brilliant.

When I say "comic book movie" I'm not talking in the most literal sense. I'm talking about comic book movies as a genre. Guys in costumes, usually with powers, who fight other people in costumes. Stuff blowing up. Lives being saved, etc. My point on changing the name "Joker" is that you could just make a cosmetic change, and still retain all the original story beats, and you wouldn't think to call it a comic book movie. You can't do that with "The Dark Knight". You can't make Batman "Capeman", and not have it still be a comic book movie, because it follows all of the tropes I previously mentioned.

So, sure, Joker is a "comic book movie". But it's a movie that owes more to non comic book movies like "Taxi Driver" and "The King of Comedy" than it does "The Dark Knight" or "The Avengers". Which is why I have a hard time linking that Joker movie to any upcoming Batman movie.

 

[shauner111]

We were saying the same thing about TDK in 2008, linking it to Heat etc more than previous superhero movies. I guarantee you, if they do a Catwoman movie with Kravitz or a Penguin movie with Farrell, you will be saying the same thing. Because they will be closer to Joker than your average comic book movie.