The Joker Thread - Part 1

[Rorschach2012]

I'm not overcomplicating this at all. If anything you're oversimplifying it. Sure it would be great if Reeves wanted Phoenix and Phoenix wanted Reeves and everything just fell into place so perfectly. You can't just shrug off those 3 scenarios like they aren't genuine roadblocks.

I can imagine a lot of things, Rorschach. Doesn't make them any more realistic and likely. I've followed Joaquin Phoenix's career for a long time, and I've watched just about every interview he did for Joker. He's given me no indication at all that he's be up for something like this.

I'd be thrilled to bits to be wrong. But I don't see the point in humoring this. You clearly see differently, so have at it.

Good lord. You literally are not reading what I’m saying lol.

Yes I acknowledge these road blocks. But it is still completely POSSIBLE that this could work, regardless of tonal or continuity issues.
If Reeves, Robbie, and Phoenix agreed to work together, those continuity issues could be waved away in literally one line of a script.

You don’t just make 1B on established IP and then immediately follow it up with a different version. I bet you anything that there are execs breathing down Reeves’ neck to get him to utilize Phoenix’s Joker in a future film.

 

[Invader Joker]

I'm not overcomplicating this at all. If anything you're oversimplifying it. Sure it would be great if Reeves wanted Phoenix and Phoenix wanted Reeves and everything just fell into place so perfectly. But I don't think you can just shrug off those 3 scenarios off like they aren't genuine roadblocks.

The thing is that you are acting like those 3 scenarios are a certainty when those 3 scenarios you mentioned are literally as imaginary as the idea of Reeves wanting to work with Phoenix for his own version of Joker. Every single one of those scenarios is as likely, because the idea of a director watching a master work of a performance like the one Phoenix did and then fantasizing about doing something with him does not sound far fetched at all. And the idea of an actor like Phoenix being sold on whatever Reeves pitch could be also doesn't sound far fetched.

 

[Boom]

Good lord. You literally are not reading what I’m saying lol.

Yes I acknowledge these road blocks. But it is still completely POSSIBLE that this could work, regardless of tonal or continuity issues.
If Reeves, Robbie, and Phoenix agreed to work together, those continuity issues could be waved away in literally one line of a script.

You don’t just make 1B on established IP and then immediately follow it up with a different version. I bet you anything that there are execs breathing down Reeves’ neck to get him to utilize Phoenix’s Joker in a future film.

And I'm not saying it can't work. I'm saying I don't see it happening, and I'd be very careful building this idea up in your head to the point where you ultimately disappoint yourself if it doesn't happen. You read my posts and I'l read yours.

 

[Eddie Dean]

It's a black box. Useless to speculate. The only thing we know for sure is Joker was a big success and Joaquin won an Oscar for playing the role.

 

[Invader Joker]

Good lord. You literally are not reading what I’m saying lol.

Yes I acknowledge these road blocks. But it is still completely POSSIBLE that this could work, regardless of tonal or continuity issues.
If Reeves, Robbie, and Phoenix agreed to work together, those continuity issues could be waved away in literally one line of a script.

You don’t just make 1B on established IP and then immediately follow it up with a different version. I bet you anything that there are execs breathing down Reeves’ neck to get him to utilize Phoenix’s Joker in a future film.

Robbie might be the far fetched factor here because as BoP proved, she's not indispensable and Reeves could recast if he wanted to, but Phoenix getting along with Reeves and Pattinson? That doesn't sound far fetched, not at all.

And you know that executives are probably gonna heavily encourage them to at least have one meeting.

That's the only thing we know right now via common sense: That execs want this to happen.

 

[Rorschach2012]

And I'm not saying it can't work. I'm saying I don't see it happening, and I'd be very careful building this idea up in your head to the point where you ultimately disappoint yourself if it doesn't happen. You read my posts and I'l read yours.

My god lol I’m not building anything up. I’m just saying it’s completely possible we could see the three aforementioned actors in a Batman movie. People are out here acting like it’s not possible, but it so is.

I’m open to any scenario. I’ve been here almost as long as you, and I’m a DC fan, I have learned to roll with the punches.

I really would like to see this happen, but I’m prepared if it doesn’t.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I don't like Joker with Harley.

Let Harley have fun in the rest of the DCEU.

Reeves Joker should work alone.

 

[Boom]

The thing is that you are acting like those 3 scenarios are a certainty when those 3 scenarios you mentioned are literally as imaginary as the idea of Reeves wanting to work with Phoenix for his own version of Joker. Every single one of those scenarios is as likely, because the idea of a director watching a master work of a performance like the one Phoenix did and then fantasizing about doing something with him does not sound far fetched at all. And the idea of an actor like Phoenix being sold on whatever Reeves pitch could be also doesn't sound far fetched.

First, I'm not saying anything with certainty. I'm presenting my opinion on the matter, with my own assumptions. Since that's literally all we have when it comes to discussing a theoretical sequel that could be anywhere from 5-9 years away.

Yes, I think my scenarios are more realistic than those presented by you and Rorschach. The idea of Phoenix playing The Joker in Reeves' films requires three key pieces to come together. On the flip side, it only takes one piece to blow it all apart. It's a number game. Call it pessimistic or unimaginative. We are free to disagree on that.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I don't like Joker with Harley.

Let Harley have fun in the rest of the DCEU.

Reeves Joker should work alone.

Nah save Joker for an Arkham takeover story in the third movie with Harley as the secondary antagonist.

 

[Invader Joker]

I think what makes the idea very tempting is not only the box office potential but the fact that Pattinson and Phoenix just seem like they'd have great chemistry. Their looks, their acting skills, their methods, the types of films they've been in, they just seem like they'd fit together so organically. There's no way that execs won't at least encourage the idea or ask for a meeting between Reeves and Phoenix eventually.

 

[Eddie Dean]

No Harley. Don't need her. Sorry.

 

[Schlosser85]

I prefer both Batman and Joker to be loners. I'm not a fan of The Joker having Harley Quinn as a girlfriend he actually keeps around, or Batman having a whole extended "Bat-family".

 

[Invader Joker]

No Harley. Don't need her. Sorry.

She could be interesting if they finally explore her in a more mature way, which I think Reeves would.
But she's not necessary, the main focus should be Batman vs Joker, that should be all that matters in the end if they make another movie of them against each other.

Also, now that I mentioned it, I wonder if they'd literally call the movie "The Batman vs. Joker"

 

[Eddie Dean]

I prefer both Batman and Joker to be loners. I'm not a fan of The Joker having Harley Quinn as a girlfriend he actually keeps around, or Batman having a whole extended "Bat-family".

same fam

 

[Schlosser85]

Margot said it perfectly in an interview that Harley’s Gotham is way more heightened and colourful than Joaquin’s, so it would clash. And she doesn’t think his Joker would work well with a Harley Quinn. She wished her and Heath’s Joker got together. That would have been interesting because Ledger’s Joker would do nothing but use her and it would be believable.

I would need to see Reeves’ Gotham first though. Right now it feels like we have three completely different looking Gotham cities.

1) Ledger's Joker is about the last version of The Joker I'd expect to have a Harley Quinn.

2) That's because we do, and one of various reasons why it doesn't work when people try to shoehorn them all together.

 

[Boom]

Since we're seeing a sort of alternating pattern here, I'd hope that Reeves wouldn't shy away from a permawhite Joker. Not sure I'd be keen on back-to-back takes with the character wearing clown makeup.

For everything that was wrong with Leto's aesthetic, I thought the skin tone was great most of the time. It was pallid without stretching credulity. I think it'd fit even in a "grounded" universe. Just gotta go MUCH darker with the green hair.

 

[Rorschach2012]

1) Ledger's Joker is about the last version of The Joker I'd expect to have a Harley Quinn.

2) That's because we do, and one of various reasons why it doesn't work when people try to shoehorn them all together.

this has been explained already, but everyone here acknowledges that Harley, Joker, and Batman are in 3 separate universes at the moment. We are saying that you can use these same actors and wave away the potential continuity concerns. JK as JJJ, Michael Gough Alfred, Judi Dench Q. If the stars align, and the execs, actors, and Reeves want Joaquin and Robbie in Batman 2 or 3, these continuity concerns (3 Gotham’s) go out the window and can be explained away in a sentence. It just takes a little imagination. This situation could be well within reach if everyone is willing to make it work.

 

[Wheels]

Under the same direction, I don’t think the tonal clashes would be as bad as you guys think. These are three versatile actors.

I remain convinced that Joaquin’s Joker can fit in Reeves’ universe if they try hard enough. Audiences are forgiving, a few lines acknowledging broken continuity and Joker’s exaggerated memory would go a long way.

I just feel like it’s easy to mess up with the Joker. We have an incredibly well received Joker already, and we have seen two recent examples that demonstrate how Joker can be done poorly (Leto, Monaghan). It’s a big risk for Reeves. I do think he could pull it off, but it also might pay off if he gets Joaquin to return.

At this point, there are VERY few actors that would get me as excited as Joaquin being brought back.

Ben Foster, Michael Pitt, Lakeith, Will Poulter, Caleb Landry Jones... these guys are all great character actors and I think they could pull it off. But the one actor that would actually get me hyped would be Adam Driver. He’s the only alternative for me right now.

Jerome is the most popular character of Gotham dude. Even people who hate Gotham usually say Jerome was the best part. It's really just Leto IMO.

 

[Schlosser85]

Yea, lumping Monaghan in with Leto is unfair, IMO, even if Monaghan's material was all over the place.

 

[Boom]

Jerome is the most popular character of Gotham dude. Even people who hate Gotham usually say Jerome was the best part. It's really just Leto IMO.

And I like to think Leto was just an example of completely wasted potential. Or maybe he would've sucked regardless. Who knows?

If nothing else, it's a shame because the guy is perfect for The Joker aesthetically.

 

[Invader Joker]

Monaghan was pretty cool for what he was given.

 

[Schlosser85]

Thinking it's an iffy idea to throw totally unrelated characters from clashing universes together in one continuity, and not thinking Reeves should have to accomodate actors and characters he might not even want in his universe =/= lacking imagination.

If anything, it's lacking imagination to think we can't have different castings/versions of characters existing concurrently in different film universes.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Jerome is the most popular character of Gotham dude. Even people who hate Gotham usually say Jerome was the best part. It's really just Leto IMO.

I watched every single episode of Gotham and loved it. Monaghan was good at first and got horribly over the top at the end. Ended things with a thud for sure.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I’m literally just saying that it’s completely within the realm of possibility.

If Reeves wants it and the actors want it, then it’ll happen and the continuity “issue” can be solved in a heartbeat with a good screenwriter. That’s all I’ve been saying this entire time.

 

[Invader Joker]

Thinking it's an iffy idea to throw totally unrelated characters from clashing universes together in one continuity, and not thinking Reeves should have to accomodate actors and characters he might not even want in his universe =/= lacking imagination.

If anything, it's lacking imagination to think we can't have different castings/versions of characters existing concurrently in different film universes.

I think it's a brilliant idea to use two absolutely brilliant actors that are the best of their generations (Pattinson and Phoenix) as the most famous rivalry of hero vs. villain that has ever existed in fiction.