The Joker Thread - Part 1

[hellblazer103]

Everyone knows Dafoe would've been gold
Just like Eisenberg could've been a great Jimmy Olsen or Riddler
Or Carla Gugino would've been a great Catwoman

But nope, let's just keep miscasting great actors in unfitting roles

 

[Boom]

I've been off the Dafoe train for a while. He's simply too old for the role at this point. Now, if they were making a Kingdom Come or Batman Beyond adaptation? Then he'd be a perfect fit.

I think Leto has a great Joker performance in him, but he strikes me as the kind of actor that needs structure. Watching Suicide Squad, I got the impression that Ayer basically took him off the leash and let him improvise quite a bit. The director really bought into the whole "method acting" thing, and it didn't work.

 

[hellblazer103]

What if the next person who directs his Joker gives him so many limitations that he decides to quit and they really DO have to recast ?


..... ( fingers crossed )

 

[Boom]

Then cast Richard Brake.

 

[The Joker]

Willem Dafoe would have still been given the same crappy character material Leto got. An actor is only as good as the material they are given. Even the best actors can't make s*** shine.

 

[hellblazer103]

Then cast Richard Brake.

I remember you mentioning him before. I'd say he can't since he was already Joe Chill, but since most of the general public still hasn't even ****ing seen Batman Begins, I doubt anyone would really notice. It'd be a funny coincidence if we got an actor who played the killer of Bruce's parents to play Bruce's archenemy, since Nicholson already played both roles at the same time, lol

Willem Dafoe would have still been given the same crappy character material Leto got. An actor is only as good as the material they are given. Even the best actors can't make s*** shine.

But if he DIDN'T have crappy material ... ?

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Then cast Richard Brake.

I........love this idea.

 

[DOBSON10]

Or Carla Gugino would've been a great Catwoman

Really not trying to stir things up, but I see her "fancasted" as Catwoman all over this board, and I just don't get it. She's not a good enough actress to pull off Catwoman, and I'm not one that thinks it takes an amazing actress to do it, I just don't think she's a good actress... Different strokes I guess, reminds me of Nathan Fillian as Green Lantern, just for some reason those two have strong backing on this board and I don't understand it because they're average actors at best.

Anyway... As for Leto, as I've said before, with a good director/script and a few tweaks in his appearance I still think he could give a very good performance as the Joker. He had some flashes in Suicide Squad that showed his potential IMO.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Anyway... As for Leto, as I've said before, with a good director/script and a few tweaks in his appearance I still think he could give a very good performance as the Joker. He had some flashes in Suicide Squad that showed his potential IMO.

He did!
I was thinking that while watching some of the behind the scenes stuff too.
Stuff that didn't make it into the movie.
He's a good actor and there's definitely potential there.

 

[The Joker]

But if he DIDN'T have crappy material ... ?

He would have been great. But then so would Jared Leto.

 

[Boom]

I remember you mentioning him before. I'd say he can't since he was already Joe Chill, but since most of the general public still hasn't even ****ing seen Batman Begins, I doubt anyone would really notice. It'd be a funny coincidence if we got an actor who played the killer of Bruce's parents to play Bruce's archenemy, since Nicholson already played both roles at the same time, lol

I look at it this way. Batman Begins was so long ago and his role as Joe Chill was so limited that I think you can get away with it. Not to mention the fact that he'd look unrecognizable once you throw on the white makeup and lipstick.

However, I think it'd be a neat way to unofficially put Nolan's films in the multiverse. In Nolan's reality, Joe Chill is the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne. In the DCEU reality, Joe Chill is The Joker. Different realities, different sets of circumstances, but the end result is still the same. A Batman and a Joker locked in an never-ending battle. It's fatalism at a universal level.

Normally I hate it when people typecast actors for comic book roles based on previous performances (i.e. people fancasting Bryan Cranston and every other actor who had ever shaved their head before as Lex Luthor), but just ****ing look at this:

Spoiler

That's The Joker. That's a homicidal clown I can imagine gassing people to death with laughing toxin, spraying acid out of a trick flower, and using lethal toys.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

By that stupid logic, everything she says about the other members of the squad is invalid and shouldn't be believed either.

People have been known to tell the truth about some things and lie about others. I know it's a technique seen in TV shows about trial lawyers where they get a witness to admit the witness lied about something else and therefore the testimony
is also a lie. But that's not how it works in real life.

I feel like WB will push for the inclusion of Joker in this movie if isn't already in Reeves plans.
I'm sure they wanna turn things around for one of their top money makers as soon as possible.
Fixing it now to build more hype for him in the future would be the right choice.

It's up to a good director to push back when the studio makes stupid decisions. For example the studio wanted to cut the No Man's Land scene in Wonder Woman but Patty Jenkins fought to include it. If Reeves doesn't feel Joker makes narrative sense in The Batman it's up to him to fight against including the Joker.

Everyone knows Dafoe would've been gold
Just like Eisenberg could've been a great Jimmy Olsen or Riddler
Or Carla Gugino would've been a great Catwoman

But nope, let's just keep miscasting great actors in unfitting roles

Zack Snyder cast those roles though, along with Henry Cavill, Ben Affleck, and Gal Gadot. It wasn't just a studio decision. And with Zack Snyder taking a break it will probably be Matt Reeves casting the other roles in The Batman.

Really not trying to stir things up, but I see her "fancasted" as Catwoman all over this board, and I just don't get it. She's not a good enough actress to pull off Catwoman, and I'm not one that thinks it takes an amazing actress to do it, I just don't think she's a good actress... Different strokes I guess, reminds me of Nathan Fillian as Green Lantern, just for some reason those two have strong backing on this board and I don't understand it because they're average actors at best.
.

That's the way fancastings go though. Someone gets enamored with a certain actor. They like the way an actor looks. They saw a movie with the actor and liked the performance. Sometimes people just want to be part of the fun so they
just go to Google and look at a list of actors that meet a certain spec and nominate that person. And 90% of the time it ends up being someone no one even thought of. How many people picked Michelle Pfeiffer, Halle Berry, or Anne Hathaway to play Catwoman?
As far as taking an amazing actress to play Catwoman, even that doesn't always work out. Halle Berry is an Oscar winner. Probably as good an actress as Michelle Pfeiffer or Anne Hathaway. But a bad story can't save a character no matter how good the actor.
And no offense to the actress, but Carla Gugino just doesn't look feline enough and at 45 is way too old to play Catwoman.

 

[The Joker]

People have been known to tell the truth about some things and lie about others. I know it's a technique seen in TV shows about trial lawyers where they get a witness to admit the witness lied about something else and therefore the testimony
is also a lie. But that's not how it works in real life.

Again you can apply that logic to anyone in the movie, so you can doubt what anyone says. But you don't because there's no basis to believe that's the case, just like there isn't here with Waller. It's just denial that the movie would be stupid enough to say that about Harley. But it did, and there's no valid basis to doubt it meant it.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Curious to see how much the negativity around SS and joker will influence opinions of Leto's performance in bladerunner.
People seem to have forgotten anything he did before SS, will it be the same for anything after?
Once the fanboy pitchforks and torches are out
it's not the easiest thing to make them go away. lol

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Curious to see how much the negativity around SS and joker will influence opinions of Leto's performance in bladerunner.
People seem to have forgotten anything he did before SS, will it be the same for anything after?
Once the fanboy pitchforks and torches are out
it's not the easiest thing to make them go away. lol

I doubt anyone will care. Nobody got too upset about Heath Ledger having starred in Brokeback Mountain before he played Joker.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I doubt anyone will care. Nobody got too upset about Heath Ledger having starred in Brokeback Mountain before he played Joker.

I don't know!
I remember hearing "brokeback joker" a few times.

And I honestly think CBM fans have become a little more rabid since the pre TDK days.

 

[Greens]

Don't forget that Heath's performance in Brokeback Mountain was great.

 

[The Endless]

Leto has always been respected as an actor. But at the same time he's always been thought if as a bit of a pretentious dick head lol.

He'll be fine. And I think he still has the potential to be an awesome Joker.

 

[Khaos]

Everyone knows Dafoe would've been gold
Just like Eisenberg could've been a great Jimmy Olsen or Riddler
Or Carla Gugino would've been a great Catwoman

But nope, let's just keep miscasting great actors in unfitting roles

Eisenberg wasn't miscasted. They decided to go with a different take on Luthor and apparently Eisenberg fitted that vision, which is very different from the most popular version of Luthor. It's not miscasting, it's re-imagining.

 

[harlequinade]

Curious to see how much the negativity around SS and joker will influence opinions of Leto's performance in bladerunner.
People seem to have forgotten anything he did before SS, will it be the same for anything after?
Once the fanboy pitchforks and torches are out
it's not the easiest thing to make them go away. lol

He is gonna have to be next level amazing for the haters not to whine, Squad and the whole BTS stuff seriously hurt his reputation as an actor

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

https://***********/CMWAshby/status/861744463152128000

Based on social feeds and the internet in general - this seems to be the consensus reaction to Jared Leto appearing in Blade Runner: 2049.

 

[Greens]

What a ridiculous knee jerk reaction. If we're gonna scold actors because they made one misstep (which wasn't even entirely their fault), we would have to hate each and every one of them.

 

[Wildcard]

Eisenberg wasn't miscasted. They decided to go with a different take on Luthor and apparently Eisenberg fitted that vision, which is very different from the most popular version of Luthor. It's not miscasting, it's re-imagining.

Re-imagining or not, Eisenberg was still miscast. As BvS showed all of us, he has no clue what to do with Luthor & I'd say gravely misunderstands what the character should be. I guess some of that falls on Snyder as well, but still, Eisenberg is not what I'd say is Lex Luthor material. Ergo, he was miscast.

 

[Khaos]

Re-imagining or not, Eisenberg was still miscast. As BvS showed all of us, he has no clue what to do with Luthor & I'd say gravely misunderstands what the character should be. I guess some of that falls on Snyder as well, but still, Eisenberg is not what I'd say is Lex Luthor material. Ergo, he was miscast.

He doesn't misunderstand what you think the character should be. He was given a different task, which apparently was to do something completely different than what we're used to in the most popular Luthor versions.

His character is goofy and awkward, which isn't necessarily wrong given that's exactly how many of these super smart people are. He is also conflicted and tormented by his inner demons and that can easily be seen in the weird way he articulates himself. You can feel his lunacy in his voice and mannerisms. He is a young genius that's completely insane and emotionally scarred, and that actually justifies his actions in the movie. He's not a stable person and that's why he gets screwed by his own genius intellect.

The way the character was portrayed is nothing more than a creative choice. He certainly doesn't have that typical powerful bad guy look that is so popular and so cliche, since Luthor doesn't really look/sound/acts that much different than many other bad guys. But at the end of the day, he still hates superman, he still comes up with crazy plans to beat him, he's still a genius and to me that´s Lex Luthor.

Go read Superman comics and you will find several Luthor versions through out the history. Some of them not that far from what we saw in the movie.

 

[The Joker]