The Joker Thread - Part 1

Totally agree. If Affleck is out there's no reason not to recast Joker too. Sacrifice a little continuity to get it right.

I hate to complain, but Leto suuuucked. I've tried giving him a chance, and I like him better than I did initially, but that just wasn't the right role for him.

Should've gotten Dafoe or Goggins.
 
I hate to complain, but Leto suuuucked. I've tried giving him a chance, and I like him better than I did initially, but that just wasn't the right role for him.

Should've gotten Dafoe or Goggins.

Dafoe or Goggins wouldn't have any better with the same writing and direction
 
Dafoe or Goggins wouldn't have any better with the same writing and direction


I can 100% say that you're wrong.

It was Leto's sensibilities, mannerisms and voice that made that Joker horrible.

The look and the dialogue wasn't horrible. Not good, but not horrible.

The problem is undeniably Leto. Good actor. But miscast as Joker.
 
I can 100% say that you're wrong.

It was Leto's sensibilities, mannerisms and voice that made that Joker horrible.

The look and the dialogue wasn't horrible. Not good, but not horrible.

The problem is undeniably Leto. Good actor. But miscast as Joker.

I gotta disagree with this. I think the look and presentation of the character was far worse than his performance. I think under different circumstances he could have been much better... nobody was going to make that tattooed juggalo rap star version of the character not suck.
 
Leto came up with the performance, Ayer approved it and thought it was good. There's no finger pointing at one person here.
 
If they do recast Ben I think we might as well just clean house with whatever Batman stuff was established as well. Mainly Jared. I love the guy as an actor but if that means we can get a Jake Gyllenhaal Joker I would gladly offer him up as sacrifice. Jake in Okja was great and kind of shows how zany and fun his Joker could be.
 
That's just silly.

Affleck and Leto never even really interacted onscreen.

And y'all are really overblowing the tattoos/thug thing in terms of how it intersects with the actual character. People act like it made it's way into Leto's performance, and it really didn't. He was still The Joker.

Visually, he's a modern gangster. That's it. As in the 30's and 40's, he had similarities to the gangsters of those eras, and so on and so forth.

This is just a more outlandish take on modern gangster/crime lord.

We can debate all day long what about his performance was or wasn't good, but what wasn't "Joker" about it?
 
joker vs harley just stupid.and leto is absolatle worst live action joker ever.

wb just seems demine to make harley one of leads of dceu.which is bad idea.
 
I mean... I'm up for a Joker vs. Harley movie but hot damn the DCEU is getting crowded with Batman related stories :funny:
 
I would like to see that movie, just not with Leto. We have a chance for a clean start. Recast!

Leto can't just turn in another performance just like SS. He has to change it up big time.

I really think Gosling would've been perfect. Such a shame he turned it down :/
 
That sounds awesome. Many of their conflict-ridden stories are fantastic.

Add in some relationship/origin elements, and there's a lot of potential.

Why is this a bad thing?

It's just yet another movie that's in development. I also don't understand why Joker v Harley can't just be rolled into GCS. Makes more sense that way.
 
It's just yet another movie that's in development. I also don't understand why Joker v Harley can't just be rolled into GCS. Makes more sense that way.

DC announces the Suicide Squad Extended Universe, a DCEU spin-off!
 
That's just silly.

Affleck and Leto never even really interacted onscreen.

And y'all are really overblowing the tattoos/thug thing in terms of how it intersects with the actual character. People act like it made it's way into Leto's performance, and it really didn't. He was still The Joker.

Visually, he's a modern gangster. That's it. As in the 30's and 40's, he had similarities to the gangsters of those eras, and so on and so forth.

This is just a more outlandish take on modern gangster/crime lord.

We can debate all day long what about his performance was or wasn't good, but what wasn't "Joker" about it?

I think the entire thing was a mess of some good, but mostly bad ideas, performance, characterization and especially aesthetic choices that just weren't good.

I've said this before regarding his performance, he went from good to horrible in the course of single sentences, let alone the entire performance. The whole performance was inconsistent with highs and lows. I think it's one of the most un-even performances I've ever seen, especially from an actor that clearly has alot of talent and potential, even in this role.

They made him love sick for Harley, that's one part of it that's "Not Joker", they made him too public of a character, seemingly owning a Nightclub over his more traditional abandoned hideouts, he's known to make public statements and very public crimes, but keep to the shadows while during his planning/downtime phases to avoid his acts from being prevented or predicted by Batman, not chilling in the VIP of his own nightclub where Batman can just walk in and take him down anytime he wants. They made him materialistic with flashy clothes, jewelry and cars, when typically the Joker isn't concerned with those things for the most part. He also had no arc of his own in the movie really, just that he's trying to rescue the girl he loves, which again, not the traditional Joker/Harley relationship.

I still think Leto can be a good Joker but there needs to be alot of retooling of the characterization, writing/dialogue, motivations and aesthetic, along with giving him his own villainous plot this time around. I'd still be up for seeing it, I think Matt Reeves could get something out of Leto with some tweaks.
 
Lol I already said Joker's future is a black hole in this universe on this very thread. He's a prop for Harley now period,goodbye clown prince,welcome loser wannabe crime lord boyfriend. Suddenly those Ledger fanboys who petitioned for the character to be retired from the screen look pretty good now
 
Totally agree. If Affleck is out there's no reason not to recast Joker too. Sacrifice a little continuity to get it right.

Seconded. Leto's Joker won't be missed, except by a few disgruntled fanboys.
 
It makew no difference who's playing him, they can get Daniel Day Lewis or invent a time machine and pull Ledger as long as they look at Joker with respect to Harley these problems will persist.

This character was designed to feed Harley's development.
 
It's just yet another movie that's in development. I also don't understand why Joker v Harley can't just be rolled into GCS. Makes more sense that way.

Read between the lines. If there's a Joker/Harley movie coming, there will likely be elements of their relationship and their falling out in GCS.
 
I think the entire thing was a mess of some good, but mostly bad ideas, performance, characterization and especially aesthetic choices that just weren't good.

I've said this before regarding his performance, he went from good to horrible in the course of single sentences, let alone the entire performance. The whole performance was inconsistent with highs and lows. I think it's one of the most un-even performances I've ever seen, especially from an actor that clearly has alot of talent and potential, even in this role.

They made him love sick for Harley, that's one part of it that's "Not Joker", they made him too public of a character, seemingly owning a Nightclub over his more traditional abandoned hideouts, he's known to make public statements and very public crimes, but keep to the shadows while during his planning/downtime phases to avoid his acts from being prevented or predicted by Batman, not chilling in the VIP of his own nightclub where Batman can just walk in and take him down anytime he wants. They made him materialistic with flashy clothes, jewelry and cars, when typically the Joker isn't concerned with those things for the most part. He also had no arc of his own in the movie really, just that he's trying to rescue the girl he loves, which again, not the traditional Joker/Harley relationship.

I still think Leto can be a good Joker but there needs to be alot of retooling of the characterization, writing/dialogue, motivations and aesthetic, along with giving him his own villainous plot this time around. I'd still be up for seeing it, I think Matt Reeves could get something out of Leto with some tweaks.

Of course he will require more work on characterization, motivations, etc, in the future. He was a supporting character in SUICIDE SQUAD. They rarely have full arcs of their own. Many movies have them.

Beyond that, the lack of understanding of the character itself that your post displays...you're whining about a guy that has historically dressed in purple and as a CLOWN and gotten around in vehicles with his face on them being too flashy because he is wearing some jewelry?

As for him being concerned with material things...please read a comic pre-2010. There's a longstanding precedent for the crime lord/materialistic Joker.

It is not and has never been all he cares about, but The Joker who cared about being a successful, iconic crime lord is very, very ingrained in the mythology.
 
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Read between the lines. If there's a Joker/Harley movie coming, there will likely be elements of their relationship and their falling out in GCS.

Yeah, but do we really need TWO Harley centric movies planned before we even get anything concrete on MoS 2 or the Flash? It just feels like wasted space in an already crowded release schedule.
 
Yeah, but do we really need TWO Harley centric movies planned before we even get anything concrete on MoS 2 or the Flash? It just feels like wasted space in an already crowded release schedule.

They're cheap cash in movies. Nothing more. Like Sony and their Venom solo spin off that won't even have Spider-Man in it. They're just using fan favorite villains to make a quick buck.
 

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