The Joker Thread - Part 1

[Invader Joker]

Had that been officially confirmed? If that's the case then cool. Looking forward to it.

In the same press release where Affleck announced he's out, yes

 

[Da-Scribe]

In the same press release where Affleck announced he's out, yes

Eh, I never took that as an official thing. The Deadline article at least didn't really position it as a definite.

 

[TheVileOne]

So let's see.
Reeves got rid of Affleck, reports are he's gonna get rid of JK Simmons and Jeremy Irons, and you think he's gonna keep Jared Leto, the one that in the 5 minutes he appeared in proved to be the worst Joker ever and comes with an insane amount of baggage?
Nah. Leto will not appear in Reeves Batman films. I can guarantee you that.

Joker might not even appear in the first movie.

 

[Invader Joker]

Eh, I never took that as an official thing. The Deadline article at least didn't really position it as a definite.

A Deadline article that states this and ia retweeted by Ben Affleck is as official as one can get

 

[Da-Scribe]

A Deadline article that states this and ia retweeted by Ben Affleck is as official as one can get View attachment 23319

I guess I just read it differently. The "we hear" part makes it seem less official than everything else noted. Don't get me wrong, I certainly figure it's the case, but I've just been operating as if nothing is confirmed.

 

[Invader Joker]

I guess I just read it differently. The "we hear" part makes it seem less official than everything else noted. Don't get me wrong, I certainly figure it's the case, but I've just been operating as if nothing is confirmed.

The official DC Comics twitter also retweeted it. Neither Affleck nor DC would have if it wasn't accurate

 

[Deck Rickard]

If you get rid of Jared Leto, 4 kids who work at Hot Topic will RIOT.

 

[regwec]

I thought Leto played a terrible hand reasonably well. I would be content for him to have another opportunity to play the character, written differently.

 

[LoganGambit87]

I thought Leto played a terrible hand reasonably well. I would be content for him to have another opportunity to play the character, written differently.

i feel the same way i have seen more than enough of his work especially dallas buyers club that if given the material he would of been amazing and immersed himself in a role but when your joker is written to be over the top and quite cartoony and depicted with tats grills,and gold chains its hard to salvage that he sure as hell wasn't given the same opportunity that Phoenix is with his film

 

[BattleAngel]

Watched a bunch of the extended clips of the Jared Leto joker yesterday... I don't know. I think Jared was pretty into that incarnation of the character, and the character just plain sucks. It's a version of the Joker that is truly, truly obsessed with himself and feels that he is an embodiment of perfection.

I love the murder-as-high-art Joker (Nicholson), I love the idealogical zealot Joker (heath ledger, who is pursuing a philosophy, considering himself an "agent" of something greater), I really like the Joker who is seemingly obsessed with Batman and consider themselves different sides of the same coin (I don't think we saw that yet, but Ledger's Joker was heading there) and I think Joaqin's Elseworlds Joker will be along those lines (albeit focused on Thomas Wayne, not Batman/Bruce)...

...But the totally self-obsessed, hyper self-indulgent materialist Joker who demands worship and obedience that we saw in Suicide Squad is just a really, really lame, lazy take on the greatest villain in fiction since Lucifer. Any pursuit of materialism (which Jack's Joker had) should have some root in an intellectual motive (again, his Joker was almost like Bjork meets Jeff Koons in terms of being a theatrical performer and modern artist), but Leto's Joker was just a status-seeking materialist.

Of course, that all makes perfect sense in the theory that he's not the real Joker. For that take, Leto's character was brilliant. God forbid they try to tie Joaqin's take/Reeves' into the DCEU, I could buy that Leto's Joker could even be the first person who calls himself "The Joker" but that it's all a play inspired by whatever Joaqin's character did decades earlier, assuming that Arthur Fleck never actually called himself The Joker. All of the ridiculous "Ha Ha Ha" branding and the whole way Leto keeps having to remind himself that "I'm an idea" and that he is The Joker does ring psychologically true with someone who is a very dedicated copy cat. Almost in the way some cult leaders think they *ARE* Jesus.

But as an original, "the first ever in this universe" Joker, Leto's whole shtick was an abomination.

 

[Boy Scout]

Never understood the “Leto is playing Jason Todd playing The Joker” thing. It was stupid then and it’s stupid now. It’s okay for there to be a ****ty version of a character you like. It’ll get better eventually.

 

[TheVileOne]

Never understood the “Leto is playing Jason Todd playing The Joker” thing. It was stupid then and it’s stupid now. It’s okay for there to be a ****ty version of a character you like. It’ll get better eventually.

It could've justified is terrible version of the character. His Joker always came off like a poseur. More like a rocker who thought Joker's gimmick was cool and tried to imitate it.

 

[BattleAngel]

It could've justified is terrible version of the character. His Joker always came off like a poseur. More like a rocker who thought Joker's gimmick was cool and tried to imitate it.

Totally. Also, it doesn’t need to be Jason Todd, it could be anybody. I agree that the Jason Todd thing is a little too neat...

 

[Mani-Man]

Eh they played with the jason todd thing too much for my taste, it feels like they almost wanted it to be some kind of backdoor to go different ways.
Either way its clear that they saw the joker in SS as a gimmick and had no real idea what to do with the character.
What Leto did was probably the best anybody could have done with the writing and the direction...or the lack of it.

There are few scenes, some who didnt made it into the movie or were just for the trailer...in which you can see potential behind Letos acting.
But that is just too little for what the character needs and the people working on the movie didnt understood.

 

[Aximili86]

No problem with another go-around for Leto-Joker for me. Might get something cool out of him with Gunn.

Leto himself was never really the problem for me, actually like about half of what they did with him in SS. Even the tattoos & teeth kinda work given what they were going for, not ideal, but they never bugged me that much either. James'll probably tone some of that stuff down anyway, we might get something a little more traditional here.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Never understood the “Leto is playing Jason Todd playing The Joker” thing. It was stupid then and it’s stupid now. It’s okay for there to be a ****ty version of a character you like. It’ll get better eventually.

I thought that was a a "joke" theory though?

 

[Boy Scout]

Some people seriously bought into it.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Some people seriously bought into it.

I honestly feel like some of the people who keep trying to prove that rumor are just in denial of this particular Joker.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I just wonder what Ayer and Leto were really going for with the Joker. He was like some tattooed pimp, lovesick over his #1 girl. I get that they were trying to do something different but nothing about it came off well.

 

[Invader Joker]

People are forgetting thar a huge chunk of Leto's aesthetic was Leto's idea.

 

[Aximili86]

And a lot of it actually worked, it fit.

Personally I really appreciated how they went for as-different-to-Ledger-as-Ledger-was-to-Nicholson as a goal, that whole gleeful & flashy almost Mexican cartel guy type of vibe. They didn't entirely stick the landing on all of it, but all-in-all I feel it's a pretty legitimate angle to take with Joker.

Just maybe have him graduate from all the bling-bling to wearing a bit more traditional Joker stuff this time around, write some better dialogue for him, and Leto's got potential to be more than decent. Just a real shame he started out in a weak movie, but I guess that's sort of the case for all the DCEU bigtimers. If Wonder Woman can start out in BvS and then turn it around and rock it that hard in her solo, no reason it can't happen with Leto-Joker.

Leto as a general human being sort of bugs the **** out of me, but he fits the role in a huge way on paper. Just need to capitalize on that more.

Just a shame that now with Phoenix in the elseworlds thing, his Joker's going to be the one everyone talks about and remembers (looks like with good reason, going by the trailer). Leto's got an uphill battle here.

 

[Invader Joker]

I'm gonna say this: It doesn't matter if you personally like Leto, his aesthetic or not, the problem with him and his looks is the fact that he was hated by a lot of people while th movie was in production, and he was hated afterwards.
His videos are filled with comments and debates from people that say he suck vs people thaat say he had potential.

He has to go, everything about him has to go. It's better to have a Joker that's universally loved by everyone like Nicholson was, Ledger was (after the first images and trailer for TDK came out) and Joaquin is currently being with just a trailer, than to have a Joker that is hated by half the audience but loved by the other half.

Also, I see no chance in hell Reeves is gonna want to keep Leto or his aesthetic if he puts Joker in his films... nothing about his work, what his influences are and so on even remotely suggest to me he's into the whole "I neeed a gangsta" vibe.

 

[Green Goblin]

Leto felt more like a flamboyant gangster than the clown prince of crime.

 

[thebatfan5194]

I agree there were some hints of good ideas in what they were trying to do with Leto. They just went too far with the whole cholo gang banger look.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I'm gonna say this: It doesn't matter if you personally like Leto, his aesthetic or not, the problem with him and his looks is the fact that he was hated by a lot of people while th movie was in production, and he was hated afterwards.
His videos are filled with comments and debates from people that say he suck vs people thaat say he had potential.

He has to go, everything about him has to go. It's better to have a Joker that's universally loved by everyone like Nicholson was, Ledger was (after the first images and trailer for TDK came out) and Joaquin is currently being with just a trailer, than to have a Joker that is hated by half the audience but loved by the other half.

Also, I see no chance in hell Reeves is gonna want to keep Leto or his aesthetic if he puts Joker in his films... nothing about his work, what his influences are and so on even remotely suggest to me he's into the whole "I neeed a gangsta" vibe.

Eh, there were some people that hated him from the moment he was announced because they think he's a D-bag or because they don't like his band. But I think most of the vitriol towards him boiled down to three things: 1. the Joker's overall look in the film, 2. his on-set antics (or "method acting") and 3. his performance. Now, #1 and #2 could have probably been overcome if #3 worked for people. But it didn't. Suicide Squad made a lot of money but it's generally understood to be a bad movie and Leto wasn't one of the elements people liked. Anyway, I agree that he has to go. I know a few people here and there like him and others think he could have been good had the material been better (and I would agree with that sentiment) but the damage is done. Cut bait and move on. Phoenix is likely one and done, but that doesn't mean they can't recast the DCEU Joker and give him a more classic (or at least better) aesthetic.