The Joker Thread - Part 1

[Jekecy]

Erase this thread and start over. I'm so fully in on Phoenix coming back. He literally had one moment as a complete Joker, and it was phenomenal. Plenty of ground for an actor like Phoenix to cover on this character and make his own still.

Better to concentrate on other villains for this movie, and maybe have Joker in the background in the shadows. Maybe that could be Phoenix?

He doesn't have to come back immediately. I'd be down for a showdown in the 3rd, for example. Plenty of time for Phoenix to go do other things and come sit back down in heavy creative discussions with Reeves and the studio.

 

[FunkMiller]

Erase this thread and start over. I'm so fully in on Phoenix coming back. He literally had one moment as a complete Joker, and it was phenomenal. Plenty of ground for an actor like Phoenix to cover on this character and make his own still.

Having seen Joker, I’d have to disagree. Arthur Fleck is a sad little man, who commits acts of extreme violence in clown make up. There’s nothing really to suggest there’s anything about him that’s either clever enough, dangerous enough, or courageous enough to take on something like Batman.

Besides, there’s a good chance a lot of a Joker

Spoiler

takes place in Arthur’s head...

Unless you mean bring Phoenix back as a totally different Joker? Not Arthur?

 

[Jekecy]

Having seen Joker, I’d have to disagree. Arthur Fleck is a sad little man, who commits acts of extreme violence in clown make up. There’s nothing really to suggest there’s anything about him that’s either clever enough, dangerous enough, or courageous enough to take on something like Batman.

Besides, there’s a good chance a lot of a Joker

Spoiler

takes place in Arthur’s head...

Unless you mean bring Phoenix back as a totally different Joker? Not Arthur?

Spoiler

With how much of the story is purposefully left vague, there's plenty of leeway for a Joaquin return to pick and choose what they require from his "origin" if they really need to do callbacks.

But more importantly, that cop car scene was the exclamation point in transitioning from Arthur to Joker. The Joker that is destined to face Bats. Much like how the comic Joker's past literally doesn't matter, so too can it be the case here. He's a new man with a brand new drive and personality. His past doesn't inform his current state.

I genuinely feel there's so much left on the table for Joaquin to still play around with. It's incredibly exciting.

 

[Marvel united]

I highly doubt Phoenix is coming back

 

[AndrewGilkison]

The Joker in Matt Reeves Batman universe should be...

Clean and stylish.

Permawhite

Not played by Joaquin Phoenix or connected in anyway to this Joker movie.

Around the same age as Pattinson.

That ends my Ted Talk.

 

[Invader Joker]

Why does the Joker age matter anyway? Nobody even knows his age in the comics. He could be younger than Batman, older, nobody knows.

Becaude the character is so ambiguous and nobody knows where he came from you could cast someone 10 years younger than Pattinson or 30 years older and it wouldn't change a thing.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Why does the Joker age matter anyway? Nobody even knows his age in the comics. He could be younger than Batman, older, nobody knows.

Becaude the character is so ambiguous and nobody knows where he came from you could cast someone 10 years younger than Pattinson or 30 years older and it wouldn't change a thing.

Its a personal preference of mine that Batman and The Joker be contemporaries of each other and close in age.

 

[Blind Bat]

Lakeith Stanfield

The only problem would be having to hear from fanboys crying "The Joker is white! Damn SJWs! What if Black Panther was white?".

Honestly, I really like this idea. With CGI, make-up and prosthetics they could actually get him pretty close to a comic style Joker. Joker has chemically altered chalk white skin anyway. Having a black actor play him wouldn't change his overall look or origin and so doesn't bother me in the slightest.

In terms of characterization, I wish they hadn't made Black Mask ambiguously homosexual. I feel like Joker being unhealthily obsessed with his "two sides of the same coin" dynamic with Batman (like the comics), even to the point of it being in an ambiguous kind of way would have worked much better than what they're doing with Black Mask (who in his freaking origin story killed his parents over a woman he wanted to be with) and would have been a fresh take on a character who (imo) has been kinda overexposed in cinema.

 

[Invader Joker]

Honestly, I really like this idea. With CGI, make-up and prosthetics they could actually get him pretty close to a comic style Joker. Joker has chemically altered chalk white skin anyway. Having a black actor play him wouldn't change his overall look or origin and so doesn't bother me in the slightest.

In terms of characterization, I wish they hadn't made Black Mask ambiguously homosexual. I feel like Joker being unhealthily obsessed with his "two sides of the same coin" dynamic with Batman (like the comics), even to the point of it being in an ambiguous kind of way would have worked much better than what they're doing with Black Mask (who in his freaking origin story killed his parents over a woman he wanted to be with) and would have been a fresh take on a character who (imo) has been kinda overexposed in cinema.

Yeah, I feel like the next time we see Joker we should see more of his weird homoerotic obsession with Batman.

Don't spell it out but leave it ambiguous like in the comics and the Arkham games were he has this absolutely weird obsession with Batman.

That's what I feel we haven't seen yet. We haven't seen the Joker from the comics, the one that's as funny as he is deadly, that is completely manipulative and creepy while at the same time weirdly charming, and that's completely, head over heels obsessed with Batman:




We got hints of that with Ledger but I feel you could try to just do classic Joker for a change the next time.

 

[Kane52630]

I think it's the other way around. You'd risk SJWs being like "Why are they painting this black dude completely white!!!?"

 

[BatsAndNights]

Yeah, I feel like the next time we see Joker we should see more of his weird homoerotic obsession with Batman.

As I talked about previously, what I want is for them to go for a more Dark Knight Returns-esque Joker if they introduce him for the Reeves franchise. Someone who's basically Hannibal Lecter in clown makeup, who just so happens to be quite literally gay for Batman. You wanna make him scary? Have him be that Joker. More nuanced and subtle rather than whacky and over the top. A faint chuckle instead of manic laughter. Someone who's straight up sociopathic in nature, who only so much as shows joy when he causes misery or when he sees his "darling". Someone who seems borderline inhuman. The complete and utter antithesis of a human being.

Like, I don't care what anyone says. The Joker, completely deadpan, saying "That's why I'm going to kill everyone in this room." and only showing the faintest hint of joy when he watches everybody literally laugh to death is the most terrifying Joker moment in history. You cannot convince me otherwise.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I would have course welcome Phoenix into this movie with open arms, but he strikes me as the type of guy who is going to be one and done by choice.

 

[COCOS]

lets all be real, after that phoenix performance, u sure doesnt want a actor to touch this role, he's the Joker Period. its a wrap

 

[Invader Joker]

As I talked about previously, what I want is for them to go for a more Dark Knight Returns-esque Joker if they introduce him for the Reeves franchise. Someone who's basically Hannibal Lecter in clown makeup, who just so happens to be quite literally gay for Batman. You wanna make him scary? Have him be that Joker. More nuanced and subtle rather than whacky and over the top. A faint chuckle instead of manic laughter. Someone who's straight up sociopathic in nature, who only so much as shows joy when he causes misery or when he sees his "darling". Someone who seems borderline inhuman. The complete and utter antithesis of a human being.

Like, I don't care what anyone says. The Joker, completely deadpan, saying "That's why I'm going to kill everyone in this room." and only showing the faintest hint of joy when he watches everybody literally laugh to death is the most terrifying Joker moment in history. You cannot convince me otherwise.

I find riping off Hannibal Lecter extremely lame. I really just wanna see the Joker from the comics.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I think it's the other way around. You'd risk SJWs being like "Why are they painting this black dude completely white!!!?"

Some itsy bitsy gaggle of outrage junkies might work themselves up over it but even the touchiest members of the Woke Twitter crowd I suspect would find that to be a non-issue.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I find riping off Hannibal Lecter extremely lame. I really just wanna see the Joker from the comics.

It was more hyperbole than anything else. I'd still love to see a more sophisticated Joker that was more subtle than a whacky agent of chaos, personally.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

As I talked about previously, what I want is for them to go for a more Dark Knight Returns-esque Joker if they introduce him for the Reeves franchise. Someone who's basically Hannibal Lecter in clown makeup, who just so happens to be quite literally gay for Batman. You wanna make him scary? Have him be that Joker. More nuanced and subtle rather than whacky and over the top. A faint chuckle instead of manic laughter. Someone who's straight up sociopathic in nature, who only so much as shows joy when he causes misery or when he sees his "darling". Someone who seems borderline inhuman. The complete and utter antithesis of a human being.

Like, I don't care what anyone says. The Joker, completely deadpan, saying "That's why I'm going to kill everyone in this room." and only showing the faintest hint of joy when he watches everybody literally laugh to death is the most terrifying Joker moment in history. You cannot convince me otherwise.

Not the hugest fan of explicit gay for Batman subtext with Joker, him using it to **** with Batman is inherently funny/creepy but Miller's use of queer subtext it isn't my favourite, doesn't bother me in The Dark Knight Returns but 300 is pretty gross (to be fair to Miller it's been years since I read the graphic novel and a lot of my antipathy comes from Snyder's hilariously bro-y homophobic explanation of how he shot Xerxes and Leonidas.)

There's a lot of TDKR Joker I'd love to see though. The glam rock aesthetic, the lipstick, the white suit, all of that could be killer on screen. Jared Leto would have been absolutely perfect for that Joker and since they were doing a riff on Miller's Batman it would've fit so well.

It's funny, TDKR has been mined so thoroughly that I'm a little sick of Bat-media being so steeped in it but there's a lot of cool stuff that's never been touched.

 

[Invader Joker]

I think the main reason as to why I really don't wanna see TDKR Joker is because Cameron Monaghan already played that version of Joker in the last season of Gotham and it was... meh.

I also feel we've touched enough of TDKR. Maybe later down the road it'd be fine but I'd rather not have absolutely anything from that comic touched in 10 years.


Maybe someone else can make it work. But t's still not my preference. I feel we've gotten enough of these "Joker reinventions" on live action that try to make him a bit more subdued, and I just wanna see good old post-Crisis Joker.

A funny, charming psychopath that's still violent and evil as hell.

One minute he'll make you laugh with a really good joke, the other one he might shoot you and skin you alive to feed you to hyenas.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I just want a Joker who acts exactly like Frank Booth.

 

[batman_1989_]

Not the hugest fan of explicit gay for Batman subtext with Joker, him using it to **** with Batman is inherently funny/creepy but Miller's use of queer subtext it isn't my favourite, doesn't bother me in The Dark Knight Returns but 300 is pretty gross (to be fair to Miller it's been years since I read the graphic novel and a lot of my antipathy comes from Snyder's hilariously bro-y homophobic explanation of how he shot Xerxes and Leonidas.)

There's a lot of TDKR Joker I'd love to see though. The glam rock aesthetic, the lipstick, the white suit, all of that could be killer on screen. Jared Leto would have been absolutely perfect for that Joker and since they were doing a riff on Miller's Batman it would've fit so well.

It's funny, TDKR has been mined so thoroughly that I'm a little sick of Bat-media being so steeped in it but there's a lot of cool stuff that's never been touched.

David Bowie would've been perfect for that kind of Joker . It's a shame that he never played the role

 

[David H.]

I just want a Joker who acts exactly like Frank Booth.

“Suave! Goddamn, you are one suave ****!”

 

[Eddie Dean]

That Joker is pure Dean Stockwell though.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I think the main reason as to why I really don't wanna see TDKR Joker is because Cameron Monaghan already played that version of Joker in the last season of Gotham and it was... meh.

I also feel we've touched enough of TDKR. Maybe later down the road it'd be fine but I'd rather not have absolutely anything from that comic touched in 10 years.

To be fair, I'm fairly sure that was more meant to just be a proto Joker, in the same vein that Arthur Fleck in the new movie is meant to be proto Joker, but it's just in a different way. Hence why they didn't go all out on that version of the character.

I'd agree that TDKR is used way too much as inspiration for Bruce. But I've never really seen it, bar your example, being used for other characters like Joker. I'd be perfectly fine with them taking other elements from Returns that haven't really been used already, personally.

 

[David H.]

That Joker is pure Dean Stockwell though.

Id like a candy colored clown they call the joker

 

[Jekecy]

Send in the clown.