The Joker Thread - Part 1

[BatLobster]

Honestly not getting it. Truly. The way he says "commissioner" is the closest anything comes to Ledger in terms of his performance. The glass makes him "look" similar to Ledger (the blurriness gives the illusion of panda eyes and a carved grin), so I don't know if that's subconsciously influencing perception.

He just sounds like Keoghan to me. So if anything, Keoghan's natural speaking voice simply bears a passing similarity to Ledger's Joker voice. Call it coincidence. As for the lip smacks and tongue clicks. I mean, those are just mannerisms. I do them. So long as they're not recurrent ticks, I don't think Ledger should own a monopoly on simple gestures.

I'm not saying I think it's bad or that Ledger should own all of those mannerisms, I was just surprised that other people aren't seeing/hearing it. Goes to show that this stuff hits us all differently. I didn't even think twice about the "commissioner" thing, but I completely hear a lot of similar vocal techniques at play even if Barry's voice is different.

But hey, not gonna die on this hill, I just feel that Heath kind of created a template for this character that several of the live action actors that have come after him have pulled from in some form another. It is more of a testament to Heath's imprint on the character than anything in my book.

I do think Barry is doing his own version/riff on it though. It's like music to me. You hear influences in things. And they are always there, whether conscious or not.

 

[Jekecy]

I'm not saying I think it's bad or that Ledger should own all of those mannerisms, I was just surprised that other people aren't seeing/hearing it. Goes to show that this stuff hits us all differently. I didn't even think twice about the "commissioner" thing, but I completely hear a lot of similar vocal techniques at play even if Barry's voice is different.

But hey, not gonna die on this hill, I just feel that Heath kind of created a template for this character that several of the live action actors that have come after him have pulled from in some form another. It is more of a testament to Heath's imprint on the character than anything in my book.

I do think Barry is doing his own version/riff on it though. It's like music to me. You hear influences in things. And they are always there, whether conscious or not.

Agreed.

To put it in another way, if Ledger's Joker didn't exist, I don't see Barry turning in this exact performance. The lineage is there.

 

[Boom]

He's definitely putting on an affectation. His normal voice is distinctly deeper than how it is here.

It's still his own, with a small dash of Ledger's nasally tone and playful word cadence.

I may have to expose myself to more of his work. To me he sounds exactly the same as he did in The Killing of a Sacred Deer. Maybe it's how he's annunciating here?

 

[BatLobster]

Agreed.

To put it in another way, if Ledger's Joker didn't exist, I don't see Barry turning in this exact performance. The lineage is there.

That is a much more concise way of saying what I was trying to get at.

 

[Frodo]

It's very Ledger to me voice wise.

That said, I can see why Reeves took the scene out.

It gives Joker alot of insight into the Riddler's motivations, and it doesn't really allow for Batman to come to alot of those same insights and conclusions himself.

I mean, it's a cool scene as a fan to see, but if you're trying to tell a story with Batman and Gordon being forced to put the pieces together ala Holmes and Watson, you may not want a Hannibal Lector character to lay out a road map to the killer's psyche and basically tell them what the killer's motivations are.

It works better for Batman and Gordon to figure that stuff out on their own and put the pieces together as in the finished film.

They could always play on the Clairice and Hannibal like dynamic in another film, but I think the final film works much better without it in terms of the two detectives having to piece things together.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Best Joker look ever

View attachment 54289

Thing is, as valiant as these efforts are, it will always look off as the two shots are from different angles, and because of the foreshortening going on. As someone on the Batman film reddit pointed out, he ends up looking like the landlord from Spider-Man.

But behind the glass, as gnarly as the makeup is, you can still tell it's Barry Keoghan.

 

[Boom]

Honestly, even the blurry images are good enough to piece together what he looks like. The close-up shot at the end simply gives you enough detail to fill in the specific gaps.

 

[Boom]

 

[BrollySupersj]

Now it just hit me, he looks like Jigsaw from Punisher Warzone.

 

[AntonGobbs89]

G

Now it just hit me, he looks like Jigsaw from Punished Warzone.

Good pull, yes he does.

 

[Marvel united]

I'm gonna against the grain here and say I'm not a fan of the Joker's look, like at all. It's actually disgusting to look at, and I mean that in the literal sense.

And I just don't like it for the Joker, and don't feel it fits the character. Reeves said his Joker was made in the Conrad Veidt/Gwynplaine mold, and I'm not seeing that at all

 

[AndyTrevino]

Honestly? I wouldn't really mind if all this Joker had was the pale-ish skin and green hair. It would definitely be super different and fit the "less is more" vibe super well

 

[BMW 224]

Heath Ledger is great and my personal favorite Joker but don't really see his influence on Barry's performance like others.

Gives me Cameron Monaghan vibes more than anything.

Barry like Phoenix is doing his own thing here performance wise in my opinion not riffing of Ledger.

 

[BMW 224]

Honestly? I wouldn't really mind if all this Joker had was the pale-ish skin and green hair. It would definitely be super different and fit the "less is more" vibe super well

Hot take but think it would be cool if he wore blue and had tattoos.

 

[BMW 224]

I'm gonna against the grain here and say I'm not a fan of the Joker's look, like at all. It's actually disgusting to look at, and I mean that in the literal sense.

And I just don't like it for the Joker, and don't feel it fits the character. Reeves said his Joker was made in the Conrad Veidt/Gwynplaine mold, and I'm not seeing that at all

It's definitely disgusting but isn't that what Joker is anyways ?

I think Matt and Barry are going for a Joker you dislike but in morbid sense we appreciate and enjoy.

Like the comics.

I respect you opinion though I too once shared it.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Hot take but think it would be cool if he wore blue and had tattoos.

I'd love the blue coat from ASHOSE and am actively hoping for it here actually

 

[Marvel united]

It's definitely disgusting but isn't that what Joker is anyways ?

I think Matt and Barry are going for a Joker you dislike but in morbid sense we appreciate and enjoy.

Like the comics.

I respect you opinion though I too once shared it.

For me, I wanted something less "gross" and more "creepy", more ghoulish. Like I wanted the Joker to evoke an sense of uncanny valley, like the ghosts from Insidious


Instead we got a Joker who looks like a burn victim, like an alternative take on Jackie Earle Haley's makeup for ANOES. And I'm struggling to come up with a reason for why this is, considering Reeves said this Joker didn't fall in a vat of chemicals

 

[C Prometheus]

I'm gonna against the grain here and say I'm not a fan of the Joker's look, like at all. It's actually disgusting to look at, and I mean that in the literal sense.

And I just don't like it for the Joker, and don't feel it fits the character. Reeves said his Joker was made in the Conrad Veidt/Gwynplaine mold, and I'm not seeing that at all

He also said in the full version of that same interview that he was also heavily inspired by The Elephant Man, which clearly took precedence here. I'm actually getting a bit more frustrated the more I see that that particular part of the interview being removed from the video version on IGN has led to a lot of confusion among fans.

The idea for the Gwynplaine influence wasn't that this Joker would look like him, but rather that this Joker was born with a congenital disease that forced him to constantly "smile." From there, the other key influence (The Elephant Man) clearly took precedence in making a version of Joker that leant far more into body horror than fans are used to.

 

[BMW 224]

For me, I wanted something less "gross" and more "creepy", more ghoulish. Like I wanted the Joker to evoke an sense of uncanny valley, like the ghosts from Insidious
View attachment 54306

Instead we got a Joker who looks like a burn victim, like an alternative take on Jackie Earle Haley's makeup for ANOES. And I'm struggling to come up with a reason for why this is, considering Reeves said this Joker didn't fall in a vat of chemicals

Hmm I see you wanted something more clownish perhaps ?

Personally I think this very uncanny and goulish but I can see where your coming from.

The in universe reason for his look is because of the disease he's suffering form that he was born with there's also speculation that he did have an encounter as well.

But I think out of universe reason and more important one is because Matt Reeves specifically wants the Joker to terrify and disgust the viewers a extremely disturbing monster.

This is more like the comics Joker than the more human relatable takes we've gotten recently.

Way more lager than life and dramatic but that fits a clown and Joker in my opinion.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Why does the Joker need some reason to smile at all? Batman 89' gave us a botched surgery, TDK gave us a glasgow smile, and now this grotesque Joker, why not just have him smiling all the time because he's crazy?

 

[BMW 224]

Why does the Joker need some reason to smile at all? Batman 89' gave us a botched surgery, TDK gave us a glasgow smile, and now this grotesque Joker, why not just have him smiling all the time because he's crazy?

Because Joker is deeper than that.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Because Joker is deeper than that.

You didn't answer my question. Why does the Joker need some type of backstory when it comes to his smile? I'm talking about how he either has scars, or some condition. It seems like a fairly recent idea.

 

[Sawyer]

Why does the Joker need some reason to smile at all? Batman 89' gave us a botched surgery, TDK gave us a glasgow smile, and now this grotesque Joker, why not just have him smiling all the time because he's crazy?

In this regard, Leto actually had the strongest base of just being a dude with bleached skin and green hair.

But then, of course, they went and ****ed it up with the grills, the tattoos and an actor who only ever plays the bad kind of weird.

 

[BMW 224]

You didn't answer my question. Why does the Joker need some type of backstory when it comes to his smile? I'm talking about how he either has scars, or some condition. It seems like a fairly recent idea.

Probably because of 89.

That films impact on the Batman mythos is still felt to this day.

That film gave a explanation for the smile so than Nolan did to etc.

Joker doesn't nessarcarily need one but because the precedent has been set by the first Batman film he almost deserves one now because not explaining it would feel less satisfying and missed opportunity for depth and feel like going backwards.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Why does the Joker need some reason to smile at all? Batman 89' gave us a botched surgery, TDK gave us a glasgow smile, and now this grotesque Joker, why not just have him smiling all the time because he's crazy?

This is probably just Reeves' way of taking the character back to his roots with the Man Who Laughs influence.