The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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Well, it is a free-for-all! Xavier has never been British.
 
Well, Disney/Marvel's got a four week window in which to write a check. Come on Iger, what are you going to spend your box office billions on - actor salaries?
 
LOL, I think you guys are putting way to much stock into this franchise.

I know FOX sucks, but if you can't keep hope just keep your money in your pocket.
 
starscream22 said:
LOL, I think you guys are putting way to much stock into this franchise.

I know FOX sucks, but if you can't keep hope just keep your money in your pocket.
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It's not the FF itself that's particularly valuable - this reboot looks to me to be a flop for FOX, and I'm not certain if this would be a big hit even within the MCU. But the MCU feels incomplete without the characters controlled by FOX under their "in perpetuity" rights arrangement. Dr. Doom stands alongside The Joker as the top comicbook villain. Galactus is another "A-list" protagonist and the Silver Surfer is one of the all time great cosmic heroes. Though not at that level, Annihilus is another great character.

And while the team can seem a bit old fashioned, The Human Torch is a legacy character dating back to the 1930s, The Thing was a top five Marvel hero up until the 80s, The Invisible Woman is one of the most prominent female heroes and Mr. Fantastic is Marvel's consensus "big brain".

The FF is a lesser product by not interacting with The Inhumans, The Black Panther, and of course, Namor. Shoehorning in a crossover with the X-Men looks to be an extraordinarily weak attempt to copy Marvel Studios. And the MCU is diminished by not being able to show The Thing tussling with The Hulk, Thor battling the Surfer and everyone facing off against Galactus.

So I'll continue to hope FOX comes to its senses regarding this poorly conceived reboot, and keep my money in my pocket if they don't.
 
Zarex said:
It's not the FF itself that's particularly valuable - this reboot looks to me to be a flop for FOX, and I'm not certain if this would be a big hit even within the MCU. But the MCU feels incomplete without the characters controlled by FOX under their "in perpetuity" rights arrangement. Dr. Doom stands alongside The Joker as the top comicbook villain. Galactus is another "A-list" protagonist and the Silver Surfer is one of the all time great cosmic heroes. Though not at that level, Annihilus is another great character.
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Precisely.
 
Zarex said:
It's not the FF itself that's particularly valuable - this reboot looks to me to be a flop for FOX, and I'm not certain if this would be a big hit even within the MCU. But the MCU feels incomplete without the characters controlled by FOX under their "in perpetuity" rights arrangement. Dr. Doom stands alongside The Joker as the top comicbook villain. Galactus is another "A-list" protagonist and the Silver Surfer is one of the all time great cosmic heroes. Though not at that level, Annihilus is another great character.

And while the team can seem a bit old fashioned, The Human Torch is a legacy character dating back to the 1930s, The Thing was a top five Marvel hero up until the 80s, The Invisible Woman is one of the most prominent female heroes and Mr. Fantastic is Marvel's consensus "big brain".

The FF is a lesser product by not interacting with The Inhumans, The Black Panther, and of course, Namor. Shoehorning in a crossover with the X-Men looks to be an extraordinarily weak attempt to copy Marvel Studios. And the MCU is diminished by not being able to show The Thing tussling with The Hulk, Thor battling the Surfer and everyone facing off against Galactus.

So I'll continue to hope FOX comes to its senses regarding this poorly conceived reboot, and keep my money in my pocket if they don't.
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Well said
 
Zarex said:
It's not the FF itself that's particularly valuable - this reboot looks to me to be a flop for FOX, and I'm not certain if this would be a big hit even within the MCU. But the MCU feels incomplete without the characters controlled by FOX under their "in perpetuity" rights arrangement. Dr. Doom stands alongside The Joker as the top comicbook villain. Galactus is another "A-list" protagonist and the Silver Surfer is one of the all time great cosmic heroes. Though not at that level, Annihilus is another great character.

And while the team can seem a bit old fashioned, The Human Torch is a legacy character dating back to the 1930s, The Thing was a top five Marvel hero up until the 80s, The Invisible Woman is one of the most prominent female heroes and Mr. Fantastic is Marvel's consensus "big brain".

The FF is a lesser product by not interacting with The Inhumans, The Black Panther, and of course, Namor. Shoehorning in a crossover with the X-Men looks to be an extraordinarily weak attempt to copy Marvel Studios. And the MCU is diminished by not being able to show The Thing tussling with The Hulk, Thor battling the Surfer and everyone facing off against Galactus.

So I'll continue to hope FOX comes to its senses regarding this poorly conceived reboot, and keep my money in my pocket if they don't.
Click to expand...

A lot of what your saying relates to the comic book universe where all of that is all true. However In the movie universe rarely would any of that look good on screen, What you would be doing is just cramming people in just cause you can like much of the criticism I hear about X-Men movies. A good movie is not gonna have time to introduce Reed Richards as the "marvel brain" in an Avenger movie or have The Thing fighting Hulk.

FF as a team needs to be able to stand on it's own without relegating the whole Marvel universe to extras. Bringing the Avengers together was cool but incorporating all the major hitters into a movie universe is dangerous and becomes too comic booky. As in why even have police when you have a whole community of superheroes living among us.
 
Paradox1 said:
As in why even have police when you have a whole community of superheroes living among us.
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Because super heroes are busy fighting super villains and stopping world domination plots and frankly even a large community of them would lack the time and manpower to police mundane crime.

Also you're flat out ignoring the first and most important part of his argument, which is the ancillary characters (Doom, Watcher, Surfer, Annihilus) that come with the FF rights & that could be utilized in the MCU with or without the FF themselves making an appearance.
 
Whiskey Tango said:
Because super heroes are busy fighting super villains and stopping world domination plots and frankly even a large community of them would lack the time and manpower to police mundane crime.

Also you're flat out ignoring the first and most important part of his argument, which is the ancillary characters (Doom, Watcher, Surfer, Annihilus) that come with the FF rights & that could be utilized in the MCU with or without the FF themselves making an appearance.
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Superheroes are all about the mundane they don't fight super villains every day. Come on man you should know better than that, great power equal great responsibility and all that.That is like the superhero creed right there.

Comic book fans want to recreate the comic books connect all the characters. I enjoy reading comic books but I don't want to see all these characters connected in one universe on the big screen. For instance in a shared universe what logically stops the Avengers from entering a FF movie when they come across a character like Galactus or Annihilus who threatens the whole world. Is Cap and Tony taking a holiday? If I was watching ir or writing either way I would ask myself that question of why isn't the Avengers helping. There would nothing that would make the FF more qualified to handle it than the Avengers.
 
Paradox1 said:
Superheroes are all about the mundane they don't fight super villains every day. Come on man you should know better than that, great power equal great responsibility and all that.That is like the superhero creed right there.

Comic book fans want to recreate the comic books connect all the characters. I enjoy reading comic books but I don't want to see all these characters connected in one universe on the big screen. For instance in a shared universe what logically stops the Avengers from entering a FF movie when they come across a character like Galactus or Annihilus who threatens the whole world. Is Cap and Tony taking a holiday? If I was watching ir or writing either way I would ask myself that question of why isn't the Avengers helping. There would nothing that would make the FF more qualified to handle it than the Avengers.
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Like where was SHEILD in IM3?? Sure you can ask that question and I'm sure they can Make up an answer. But I digress, Zarex (as he often is) is on point with his comments. While the FF should not have to be direct affiliates with the Avengers they can share the same universe. Not only this planet Earth but the universe is so vast that cosmic threats (and the Negative Zone) are so vast that no one superhero and/or Team can neutralize every threat together at one time. Sometimes threats happen simultaneously and need attention from different teams. In the comic books all superhero solo or teams do their parts to protect the earth. As far a why is there a police force is because while vigilante superheroes can assist they can't arrest and prosecute offenders with superpowers as they're booked in the same ways as those suspects without powers.

The FF deserve their own movie, true, but within the MCU. I also think that most the supporting characters (Mole Man, Dr Doom, Annihilus, even the Inhumans) should be introduced within the FF and sequels within the MCU. Also FF should be launched within Phase 3 and come out in 2016 then to be crammed out in 2015 just to keep rights and set the FF movie for certain BO failure.
 
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Paradox1 said:
Superheroes are all about the mundane they don't fight super villains every day. Come on man you should know better than that, great power equal great responsibility and all that.That is like the superhero creed right there.
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That'd be great if that's what I actually said.

I didn't say they never fought regular criminals, I said they lacked the numbers to effectively eliminate the need for civilian police.
 
Also, really, not all superheroes *are* about fighting mundane street crime. It really varies from character to character.
 
Paradox1 said:
A lot of what your saying relates to the comic book universe where all of that is all true. However In the movie universe rarely would any of that look good on screen, What you would be doing is just cramming people in just cause you can like much of the criticism I hear about X-Men movies. A good movie is not gonna have time to introduce Reed Richards as the "marvel brain" in an Avenger movie or have The Thing fighting Hulk.
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A truly united Cinematic Marvel Universe is the BEST thing for everyone. Regardless if the universe is united under Marvel, or functioning as a wholesale collaborative effort between the different companies who share film rights.

Here is why...

1 - What you mentioned about 'cramming everyone in' haphazardly is a valid criticism, however that is NOT anything that fans (with brains) actually want to see. Just because everyone CAN show up in any given movie, doesn't mean they SHOULD. Also as it was mentioned, the FF universe contains classic villains as well as core characters which can be used for various purposes across franchises.

Think of such a cinematic crossover along the lines of what we saw in Iron Man 1 with Nick Fury showing up at the end just to set-up a larger future story. That after-credits sequence didn't feel 'crammed in' at all, instead it was simply setting the stage for a larger story in the form of Avengers. Going that route with introducing Nick Fury worked brilliantly. The key is to do such a thing slowly, carefully and with an end-game in sight.

2 - Much like in the comics, a united cinematic Marvel universe would enable all the franchises to accurately acknowledge the interconnected history of these characters and really have fun in a larger sandbox. For example, the Quick Silver issue that's popping up now. We'll probably get 2 different versions of the same character. In a united universe where everyone could collaborate there would be no need for that.
 
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metaphysician said:
Also, really, not all superheroes *are* about fighting mundane street crime. It really varies from character to character.
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not only that, but the Fantastic Four arn't even crime fighters... they're adventurers first and foremost.
 
They could start filming in January of 2014 and still be on schedule.
 
Like Warner Brothers with Man of Steel, Fox is waiting for the results of The Wolverine to give this reboot the green light.

So it looks like you can all keep hope alive until you all rush out to see Wolverine next month.
 
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