The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

[Shikamaru]

This thread in a nutshell:

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Haha I get it.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

 

[Dark Raven]

Haha I get it.

I don't. Please explain the MOS significance.

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't. Please explain the MOS significance.

The "S" is a symbol for hope on Krypton.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The "S" is a symbol for hope on Krypton.

What's the symbol for sad, desperate denial?

I have a strong feeling that we've got about 11 days of hope left.

I'm reduced to hoping that when Fox lifts the cover it just doesn't suck huge weasel balls.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

You're making me cry, Lumpkin.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Here's my concern: They do have a weak cast put together. They realize that if they announce that weak cast character by character over the coming weeks, people like us will crap all over it.

So they want to do it on their terms at an event like Comic-Con so they can make it seem exciting in front of a group of hyped-up, friendly fans. . . instead of the more negative response they're likely to get from us if we have time to pick apart each choice.

Dunno, seems more like the opposite to me. Debuting a controversial cast in front of a crowd that doesn't really lend itself well to controversy is just begging to have your reboot killed right out of the gate. It'd be like Del Rio successfully cashing in his briefcase on Punk in Chicago 2 years ago.

The way I look at it is I don't have to hope about anything. The burden of proof is on Fox. And until they can provide something more than a release date they have yet to show they can actually commit to, casting RUMORS, and production start dates that keep getting pushed back, I'm justifiably unconvinced.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Dunno, seems more like the opposite to me. Debuting a controversial cast in front of a crowd that doesn't really lend itself well to controversy is just begging to have your reboot killed right out of the gate. It'd be like Del Rio successfully cashing in his briefcase on Punk in Chicago 2 years ago.

The way I look at it is I don't have to hope about anything. The burden of proof is on Fox. And until they can provide something more than a release date they have yet to show they can actually commit to, casting RUMORS, and production start dates that keep getting pushed back, I'm justifiably unconvinced.

I'm afraid you're letting your hope cloud your judgment (and I completely understand - I did that many times throughout production of the first two films), but step back and look at it logically.

Fox has three comic-book films - Wolverine, DOFP and FF. We already know quite a bit about the first two, so which of these three projects is realistically likely to be part of the secret Fox plans for July 20?

Why have we not heard anything concrete? Could it be that they have been waiting to make a big announcement at Comic-Con?

We can continue to hope, but I believe an unbiased analysis of what we know leads to the assumption that the secrecy is related to FF.

I'd really like to be convinced otherwise, but I just don't see any other logical options.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

But the good news is that IF we don't hear anything about FF on the 20th, I think the chances are very, very good that it's imploding at Fox and Marvel will get the rights back.

So I think we'll have an answer one way or the other within 10 days.

And even if Fox announces they're starting production, all hope isn't lost. We'll just have to switch from the irrational hope that Marvel will get it to the irrational hope that Trank can pull it off (I like Trank, but I'm afraid he doesn't have the gravitas to prevent Fox from tying his hands).

It's interesting that none of us are even considering that Fox will reveal something great on the 20th (and they've got nobody but themselves to blame for how cynical we've become).

Maybe they'll unveil a terrific cast and a 2.5 second clip of a CGI Thing that will blow everybody away.

. . . this thread is about irrational hope, right?

 

[kaijunexus]

But the good news is that IF we don't hear anything about FF on the 20th, I think the chances are very, very good that it's imploding at Fox and Marvel will get the rights back.

So I think we'll have an answer one way or the other within 10 days.

And even if Fox announces they're starting production, all hope isn't lost. We'll just have to switch from the irrational hope that Marvel will get it to the irrational hope that Trank can pull it off (I like Trank, but I'm afraid he doesn't have the gravitas to prevent Fox from tying his hands).

It's interesting that none of us are even considering that Fox will reveal something great on the 20th (and they've got nobody but themselves to blame for how cynical we've become).

Maybe they'll unveil a terrific cast and a 2.5 second clip of a CGI Thing that will blow everybody away.

. . . this thread is about irrational hope, right?

The thing of it is, though...I really don't care about non-Marvel Studios films featuring Marvel characters anymore.

For me, it's almost like the difference between official and bootleg merchandise. Yeah, sure...that bootleg figure or poster might look great. Hell, it might look downright awesome...but it's still not official. Still not genuine.

That's how I feel about Fox and Sony Marvel films at this point. If ASM2 turns out to be phenomenal, I'll see it and I may even love it. But it still won't "count" for me. It'll be a cool movie. But it will never be a MARVEL movie to me.

So even if this FF reboot pans out, and even if Trank pulls an incredible movie out of his butt, and even if I love the hell out of it...it will still never compare to a "Marvel Cinematic Universe" Fantastic Four film to me.

Because, for me, it's not just about the individual movies...it's about the universe.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm afraid you're letting your hope cloud your judgment (and I completely understand - I did that many times throughout production of the first two films), but step back and look at it logically.

Fox has three comic-book films - Wolverine, DOFP and FF. We already know quite a bit about the first two, so which of these three projects is realistically likely to be part of the secret Fox plans for July 20?

Why have we not heard anything concrete? Could it be that they have been waiting to make a big announcement at Comic-Con?

We can continue to hope, but I believe an unbiased analysis of what we know leads to the assumption that the secrecy is related to FF.

I'd really like to be convinced otherwise, but I just don't see any other logical options.

id agree, but there's ALWAYS at least something that leaks.... and nothing is. I think DOFP is far more likely (and much better to start hyping up with it's release next year

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

What's the symbol for sad, desperate denial?

What ever Zod was wearing, obviously.

 

[Zarex]

The thing of it is, though...I really don't care about non-Marvel Studios films featuring Marvel characters anymore.

For me, it's almost like the difference between official and bootleg merchandise. Yeah, sure...that bootleg figure or poster might look great. Hell, it might look downright awesome...but it's still not official. Still not genuine.

That's how I feel about Fox and Sony Marvel films at this point. If ASM2 turns out to be phenomenal, I'll see it and I may even love it. But it still won't "count" for me. It'll be a cool movie. But it will never be a MARVEL movie to me.

So even if this FF reboot pans out, and even if Trank pulls an incredible movie out of his butt, and even if I love the hell out of it...it will still never compare to a "Marvel Cinematic Universe" Fantastic Four film to me.

Because, for me, it's not just about the individual movies...it's about the universe.

I agree completely with this sentiment. I loved Raimi's Spider-man and Singer's X-Men films, but having seen a Marvel Universe unfold on screen - and on TV starting this fall - I have little interest in seeing the future adventures of these characters separate from the MCU. After the terrific intra-team Avengers battles, a Thing that can't trade blows with the Hulk is just depressing.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The thing of it is, though...I really don't care about non-Marvel Studios films featuring Marvel characters anymore.

For me, it's almost like the difference between official and bootleg merchandise. Yeah, sure...that bootleg figure or poster might look great. Hell, it might look downright awesome...but it's still not official. Still not genuine.

That's how I feel about Fox and Sony Marvel films at this point. If ASM2 turns out to be phenomenal, I'll see it and I may even love it. But it still won't "count" for me. It'll be a cool movie. But it will never be a MARVEL movie to me.

So even if this FF reboot pans out, and even if Trank pulls an incredible movie out of his butt, and even if I love the hell out of it...it will still never compare to a "Marvel Cinematic Universe" Fantastic Four film to me.

Because, for me, it's not just about the individual movies...it's about the universe.

I agree completely with this sentiment. I loved Raimi's Spider-man and Singer's X-Men films, but having seen a Marvel Universe unfold on screen - and on TV starting this fall - I have little interest in seeing the future adventures of these characters separate from the MCU. After the terrific intra-team Avengers battles, a Thing that can't trade blows with the Hulk is just depressing.

I would certainly like to have a true Marvel Universe, but the problem we have is, at the moment, even Marvel doesn't have a Marvel Universe.

Without Spider-man, FF and X-Men, Marvel basically has four big-name Marvel characters and a bunch of also-rans.

The ideal would certainly be to have them all under one umbrella, but if that's not going to happen (and it certainly doesn't seem like it will happen soon), I have no choice but to hope Fox can do justice to the characters that made me run to the newstand every Tuesday when I was a kid.

If there was anything I could do to force Sony and Fox to give the characters back to Marvel, I'd do it, but since there's nothing I can do, I'll at least try to make the best of it.

 

[Zarex]

I would certainly like to have a true Marvel Universe, but the problem we have is, at the moment, even Marvel doesn't have a Marvel Universe.

Without Spider-man, FF and X-Men, Marvel basically has four big-name Marvel characters and a bunch of also-rans.

Six years ago Marvel Studios had only one big name Marvel character. I am confident that Feige and company will continue to add to that total.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Spider-man doesn't need to be part of the Avengers or part of the MCU at all. Spider-Man as a member of the Avengers has always been BS (so is Wolverine), and him (along Wolvie) were never central players in the whole Marvel Universe, not to mention the mutant universe is pretty much separated from the rest of the Marvel Universe.

The only essential one I would say Marvel needs back is Fantastic Four.

 

[Zarex]

The only essential one I would say Marvel needs back is Fantastic Four.

Agreed

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Spider-man may not be essential in terms of the big interplanetary battles, but I sure would like to see Spidey and Torch together at some point.

That's the biggest reason I'd like to see all the characters brought together. I've never been a fan of the big, epic stories that bring all the heroes together, but I've always liked the simpler mix an matches we got with Marvel Team Up, Marvel Two in One, etc.

How cool would it be if we one day had a Iron Man teaming up with Spidey film? Or The Thing with Captain America etc. ?

(and obviously Thing vs. Hulk, but that goes without saying)

 

[Kelly]

Spider-man may not be essential in terms of the big interplanetary battles, but I sure would like to see Spidey and Torch together at some point.

That's the biggest reason I'd like to see all the characters brought together. I've never been a fan of the big, epic stories that bring all the heroes together, but I've always liked the simpler mix an matches we got with Marvel Team Up, Marvel Two in One, etc.

How cool would it be if we one day had a Iron Man teaming up with Spidey film? Or The Thing with Captain America etc. ?

(and obviously Thing vs. Hulk, but that goes without saying)

Meh, then Invisible Woman kicks Hulks ass.....no Hulk fan wants to see that. lol

 

[Shikamaru]

I can't speak for Fox's properties but the idea of Spider-Man being established in the MCU is not that crazy of an idea. In fact, it looks very likely. Both Kevin Feige and the CEO of Sony have come out and said that Sony and Marvel have a very good relationship. Marvel even took care of the merchandising for TASM and will do the same for its future sequels.

Plus, they've already had small easter eggs here and there. Empire State University appeared on a shirt in the Item 47 short. The Oscorp logo from the movie appeared in the Iron Man 3 video game. Both ESU and the film's Oscorp logo are attached to the Spider-Man film rights. Marvel needed Sony's permission to use them. On top of that, the Oscorp Tower almost appeared in The Avengers and the only reason why it didn't make it in was because the building's design wasn't finished by the time Avengers started filming.

Although it seems that X-Men and FF will be kept far away from the MCU, things do look good for Spider-Man so far.

Also, I don't agree with the notion that anything the MCU = good and everything outside of it = bad. Crossovers are a lot of fun but the story and context each film have to come first. That was one of my biggest complaints with the Marvel solo films leading up to Avengers. Other than Iron Man and TIH, the rest spent too much time setting up for The Avengers as opposed to focusing on the mythos at hand. Sure that I would love Spidey and the rest to be in the MCU but if them being in the MCU means that their films will turn into Avengers promos, then I prefer seeing them remain as stand-alone. If it ever does happen for Spider-Man in particular to be part of the MCU, I want his own films to focus only on his side of the Marvel universe but with Spider-Man appearing in films like the Avengers. Taking away precious screen time from a Spider-Man film or X-Men film just to set things up for a future crossover film ain't worth it IMO.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Meh, then Invisible Woman kicks Hulks ass.....no Hulk fan wants to see that. lol

 

[Zarex]

I can't speak for Fox's properties but the idea of Spider-Man being established in the MCU is not that crazy of an idea. In fact, it looks very likely. Both Kevin Feige and the CEO of Sony have come out and said that Sony and Marvel have a very good relationship. Marvel even took care of the merchandising for TASM and will do the same for its future sequels.

By 2018 Sony will be wrapping up its Webb/Garfield Spider-man series. By 2018, Marvel's "Big Three" of Evans, Hemsworth and Downey will probably be done with the MCU. I would be very surprised if Spider-man, likely the "Ultimate Mike Morales version, doesn't end up in the MCU shortly thereafter.

Although it seems that X-Men and FF will be kept far away from the MCU, things do look good for Spider-Man so far.

It is just too cheap and easy for FOX to put out an X Men Origins: Strong Guy film in order to keep the mutant rights. And with a new Inhumans comic series being launched and rumors about a future movie, Marvel Studios appears to be trying to find a replacement. But in keeping with the tenor of this thread, I am keeping my hope that the high cost and limited box office potential of an FF reboot will ultimately result in the two studios cutting a deal.

Also, I don't agree with the notion that anything the MCU = good and everything outside of it = bad. Crossovers are a lot of fun but the story and context each film have to come first. That was one of my biggest complaints with the Marvel solo films leading up to Avengers. Other than Iron Man and TIH, the rest spent too much time setting up for The Avengers as opposed to focusing on the mythos at hand. Sure that I would love Spidey and the rest to be in the MCU but if them being in the MCU means that their films will turn into Avengers promos, then I prefer seeing them remain as stand-alone. If it ever does happen for Spider-Man in particular to be part of the MCU, I want his own films to focus only on his side of the Marvel universe but with Spider-Man appearing in films like the Avengers. Taking away precious screen time from a Spider-Man film or X-Men film just to set things up for a future crossover film ain't worth it IMO.

For me, the world building of the MCU is the key hook that has kept my attention. Admittedly it has been done better in some films (CA:TFA) than in others (IM2).

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

By 2018 Sony will be wrapping up its Webb/Garfield Spider-man series. By 2018, Marvel's "Big Three" of Evans, Hemsworth and Downey will probably be done with the MCU. I would be very surprised if Spider-man, likely the "Ultimate Mike Morales version, doesn't end up in the MCU shortly thereafter.

It would be more surprising if Sony gives up the rights.

 

[Zarex]

It would be more surprising if Sony gives up the rights.

They wouldn't be giving them up. Sony would either sell them or (more likely) reach an agreement in which the character appears in both MCU Avengers films and solo Sony outings.