The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

[Crimz]

One option (and it's a pure speculation/imagining - not based on any real information) would be to set the first couple FF films in the 1960's - before the X-Men world has become paranoid of mutants. The FF could establish themselves, save the world a couple times in a couple films and then then, through some set of circumstances, be transported to the future.

Unlike the X-men, they won't continue from the 60's to present day, but from the view-point of the world, they'll simply disappear one day and then re-appear 50 years later. At that point, they wouldn't be associated with the damn, dirty mutants that everybody has grown to distrust but rather be the Fantastic Four that people remember relatively fondly.

That's just one option, but it gets around the problem I've had with a shared X-Men / FF world in which I can't imagine the FF being treated any differently than all the other mutants.

Then we'll have the problem of the F4 trying to get used to this new world in the future, which would be a waste of time. The focus of the movie would be them adapting to the future. I can see the terrible jokes. Doom would be old, which i don't like the idea of and all of this so that the F4 would be forced with the X-Men. It's a way to make the crossover, but the idea of these two very different teams in the same universe is stupid and i hope Fox doesn't do it.

 

[Zarex]

I watched the YouTube clips from "Rated X: A Night with Bryan Singer" from the Fantasia International Film Festival . When asked by an audience member about what Marvel characters he might want to direct, Singer told the audience "Iron Man, because I could finally buy that house I wanted". He then responded, "I'd like to see some mash-ups. There's one I'd particularly like to see, but I'm not going to say because I'd like to first mention it to the studio". Singer concluded by saying "There's a universe mash-up that I'd like to see, but I'd rather not say what it is".

In the past Singer has dismissed mixing the X-Men Universe with the FF, and I don't think the First Family matches at all well with the onscreen universe he's created. My guess? He's talking about Excalibur. Earlier in the evening Singer mentioned his great love for London and how he originally wanted to film DOFP there. Nightcrawler and Kitty were both done very well in X-2 and X-3, and it would give Singer an opportunity to resurrect a version of the Phoenix that was killed off by Ratner. And with the exception of Captain Britain, FOX controls the entire team roster. FOX would probably have to substitute out Captain Britain, or better yet, they could borrow him from Marvel in exchange for the FF film rights.

 

[def28]

It's consistent with Millar's vision. They must be targeting something for 2017 in terms of some cross over event. What would be the best story to tie a FF reboot and X-Men: DoFP together? People have mentioned Days of Future Present, or Phoenix Rising. Maybe something involving Franklin Richards, that way it's not too reliant on shoe-horning the FF squad.

When asked about the possibility he said this.
http://screenrant.com/x-men-fantastic-four-shared-film-universe/all/1/

I don’t think it’s something anyone would want to rush into. Following that Marvel model, we want to establish things first. If you had a Fantastic Four relaunch, and Wolverine and the X-Men were in it, I think it would distract you from the Fantastic Four. You can make people aware that they’re existing in the same universe without making it a big crossover movie but it would be an injustice to the Fantastic Four not to make their first movie all about them.”

He seems to be implying that they can just show up in eachothers films and not have an event film, and even that would take awhile to get to. Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure an actual Fantastic Four meets X-Men film has just been fan speculation. So I don't think we will see that for a very long time if at all.

I think as far as crossovers it will mostly be X-men films. They enough on their plate already. FC, X-Force, X-Men etc. F4 need to be on their own for awhile storywise and prove to be a success. Millar did say there is something big coming in the next few years thats unannounced when discussing X-Force and with the rumors that Fox wants to start building Apocalypse, Im putting my money on the next big X-Men event being Age Of Apocalypse in 2017 or 2018.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Then we'll have the problem of the F4 trying to get used to this new world in the future, which would be a waste of time.

I agree and if they went that route (of course it's all just baseless speculation at this point) I would hope they wouldn't spend a lot of time with the 'fish out of water' storyline. They're the FF, they're smart, they're adaptable, so cars chime when you don't fasten your seatbelt now, big deal, they can figure it out.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In the past Singer has dismissed mixing the X-Men Universe with the FF, and I don't think the First Family matches at all well with the onscreen universe he's created. My guess?

I suspect Singer could be one of our biggest allies in terms of getting the rights back to Marvel.

Singer clearly has a very specific vision of where he wants his characters to go, and I can't imagine he likes the idea of requesting permission from Mark Millar before going a direction he has in mind.

If it comes down to a "it's me or him" battle between the two, I can imagine Millar and FF getting the boot long before Fox will lose their golden boy.

 

[DrCosmic]

Marvel could easily accomodate other franchises alongside FF. We don't even know if Cap 3 and Thor 3 are on the fast track. Let's say they are, that still leaves you another year in between Avengers. They have already shown us that they are not comfortable putting Cap/Thor in the summer slots anymore, especially against big competition. If they had FF, I think we'd get something like:

Thor 3 May 2016 (assuming ASM3 is June)
Dr. Strange November 2016
Cap 3 Spring 2017
FF reboot May/June 2017

Plenty of time to accomodate these properties in lucrative slots. Also nothing to stop them from utilizing November or Spring releases as they have already shown.

Cashflow is a big part of why they only do two films a year. That's not going to change. Also, as I said, if they do FF instead of an Ant-Man sequel, which seems to be what you have suggested, then that's a lot of characters that may never see daylight. Some people are okay with that. Who cares about all of Marvel's other great characters, anyway?

We know Cap and Thor's actors have 6 movie deals. That means they either are going to be saved for Avengers 4 (2021?) or Cap 3 and Thor 3 (~2016). Which do you think is what they had in planned when they setup those deals in 2009? There is no point in imagining that Thor 3 and Cap 3 aren't going to be made in a normal sequel time frame.

Though other franchises may be pushed back, the MCU is a perfect environment for the proposed FF reboot. The team fills a void between the galaxy-spanning guardians and the earth-defending Avengers. And Disney/Marvel has advantages that FOX simply doesn't have - they can give the film the valuable early May slot, flood major discounters with toys and merchandise, put a companion animated show on Disney XD to reintroduce fans to the team, and link it to the mega blockbuster Avengers franchise through SHIELD. They can even wrap a monorail. Though there will be challenges for Feige and Company in selling the FF to audiences whose introduction to the team came from FOXs two putrid attempts, Marvel should be able to create a modest box office success that properly showcases Marvel's First Family.

It's possible, though not likely, that FOX could make a good FF film. But for the many reasons I have stated over and over again within this thread, I can't see it being a successful one. Meaning the FF characters will likely be put into FOX-aided limbo for another seven years or so with no Thing vs Hulk, Thor vs Surfer, Doom vs Iron Man or Galactus vs everyone until the 2020s at the earliest. And that's just sad.

Your likely is my unlikely. Besides, the Avengers deal with Cosmic threats that come to Earth. The FF, therefore is actually not needed.

My point was that Marvel is the *only* home for a host of great characters, and FOX is a the ideal home for the FF, where they will be showcase it as a prized jewel, and not a side project that's a redundant mix of GOTG and Avengers. Where there cartoon/monorail/merchandizing won't be pushed aside for more Iron Man and such, neither will SHIELD be shoehorned into their story to give it some appeal that is contrary to the core of the story and franchise.

 

[Crimz]

Your likely is my unlikely. Besides, the Avengers deal with Cosmic threats that come to Earth. The FF, therefore is actually not needed.

My point was that Marvel is the *only* home for a host of great characters, and FOX is a the ideal home for the FF, where they will be showcase it as a prized jewel, and not a side project that's a redundant mix of GOTG and Avengers. Where there cartoon/monorail/merchandizing won't be pushed aside for more Iron Man and such, neither will SHIELD be shoehorned into their story to give it some appeal that is contrary to the core of the story and franchise.

A prized jewel at Fox? That is the funniest thing I've heard for a while t: There is only one jewel at Fox and that is X-Men. The F4 would not be treated as some side project by Marvel because they can bring so many things to that universe, like Galactus. The only reason they are even doing a GOTG film is because they do not have the Fantastic Four. The F4 are adventurers first and foremost so they will bring many new places with them, such as Atlantis and the Negative Zone. Marvel would be foolish to cast them aside, and I don't think they will.

 

[DrCosmic]

Why is that funny for Fox to value their movie properties? Is there something about delaying the film until it's ready or hiring hot up and comers like Josh Trank?

And using Galactus in a non-FF film is definitely having FF as a side project - the heroes aren't important, we're just going to take their villains and give them to others. And while it may be true that with the FF GOTG would not have been made, it is being made now, and so now FF is the redundant one if at Marvel. The number of places which the GOTG can go largely outnumbers and outdiversifies the ones that the FF can go, because the GOTG actually travel the universe.

Marvel is wise to not spend an exorbitant amount of money to get back a property that's in good hands so that they can limit their income and success by making that instead of something else that will also be successful.

 

[Crimz]

I never said anything about not having Galactus in a F4 film, Galactus HAS to be introduced in an F4 movie. The Fantastic Four has more potential to be amazing at Marvel, Fox has less to give. It's not wrong that I have no faith in Fox making a F4 movie that is incredible, because they have made two abysmal F4 films before.

The F4 are not redundant because of GOTG, they travel across dimensions as well as the Universe. Mephisto's realm is one of the places that they can go (which can also let them interact with Dr.Strange and magic vs science which would be interesting). I am not going to talk about the budget because I do not know how much they would be willing to pay and I won't guess, only they know.

 

[DrCosmic]

It's not 'wrong' to have no faith, it just requires ignoring what we know about the current FF film as well as the last five years of how Fox has handled sci fi and superheroes. Is it wrong to ignore the present and recent past and only pay attention to eight years ago? Maybe maybe not. -shrug-

Now it's true, multi-dimensions is more of a Fantastic Four thing... though you bring up a good point: Dr. Strange handles that well, and he's also on the docket, leaving the FF with things that are almost exclusively for the FF, and the MCU with tons of characters and stories and dimensions and planets and stuff to explore without needing the FF at all to do any of it.

 

[Crimz]

The only thing that I like about the F4 being at Fox for now, is that it force ls Marvel to use characters that they wouldn't have if they had all their rights back. I am not ignoring the progress Fox is making with their films, I just believe that the F4 work best at Marvel, and even though Fox is improving they still have a long way to go for me to have faith in them.

 

[Mr. Dent]

FF are a jack of all trades when it comes to exploring..because they're explorers. They do a bit of everything. Space travel, multidimensional travel, Earth travel. That's one of the appeals of the team. But they don't get as deep into it as GOTG with space or Strange with other realms.

 

[Mr.M]

Cashflow is a big part of why they only do two films a year. That's not going to change. Also, as I said, if they do FF instead of an Ant-Man sequel, which seems to be what you have suggested, then that's a lot of characters that may never see daylight. Some people are okay with that. Who cares about all of Marvel's other great characters, anyway?

We know Cap and Thor's actors have 6 movie deals. That means they either are going to be saved for Avengers 4 (2021?) or Cap 3 and Thor 3 (~2016). Which do you think is what they had in planned when they setup those deals in 2009? There is no point in imagining that Thor 3 and Cap 3 aren't going to be made in a normal sequel time frame.

Ant-Man sequel??? Really? Ant-Man sounds like another Avengers 3 teaser, partly because I don't think Wright will get full freedom. Regardless, even if it is supposed to be more than a filler movie, it's Ant-Man.

GoTG 2? I wouldn't bet on it. It's just not a genre that has faired well recently outside of its heavy hitter counterparts, Star Wars/Trek. Basically, Phase III looks pretty slim right now. Thor and Cap won't be released the same year my bet. Still think they need another major franchise in there. Phase IV would look nonexistent at the moment, but I don't think there will even be a PIV. I see them scaling things way back after 2018. Hell, don't be surprised if A3 is fast tracked for 2017, in case Thor/Cap 2 do poorly.

 

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

Ant-Man sequel??? Really? Ant-Man sounds like another Avengers 3 teaser, partly because I don't think Wright will get full freedom. Regardless, even if it is supposed to be more than a filler movie, it's Ant-Man.

GoTG 2? I wouldn't bet on it. It's just not a genre that has faired well recently outside of its heavy hitter counterparts, Star Wars/Trek. Basically, Phase III looks pretty slim right now. Thor and Cap won't be released the same year my bet. Still think they need another major franchise in there. Phase IV would look nonexistent at the moment, but I don't think there will even be a PIV. I see them scaling things way back after 2018. Hell, don't be surprised if A3 is fast tracked for 2017, in case Thor/Cap 2 do poorly.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Unless GOTG or Ant-Man completely bombs at the box office, I don't think there's any indication that they'll scale things back. They've even recently stated that they have projects planned through to 2021.

http://screenrant.com/marvel-studios-movies-schedule-releases-2021/

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It's not 'wrong' to have no faith, it just requires ignoring what we know about the current FF film as well as the last five years of how Fox has handled sci fi and superheroes. Is it wrong to ignore the present and recent past and only pay attention to eight years ago? Maybe maybe not. -shrug-

I really wish I could have your confidence. What do we really know? I'd say the one, key thing we know is that Josh Trank is director. Based on Chronicle, I think he has some talent, but he's completely unproven in terms of a real track record and has never done a film like FF. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being extremely negative and 10 being extremely positive, I'd rate Trank as a 7.

We also know that Mark Millar is involved in some capacity. Personally I HATED many of the things Millar did with Ultimate FF and his goat-legged Victor Van Damme. On my 1 to 10 scale, I give Millar a 4 and just hope his involvement in the actual story is limited.

Beyond that, I don't think we know much else.

We can infer, based on Fox's lack of comments about this film, that it is a low priority for them and will get a modest budget. Is it possible to make a good film with a modest budget? Sure. Is a modest budget a positive or negative for the outlook of a film we know very little about? I would certainly say it's a negative - particularly for a property like FF that was unique in the visual spectacle the comics provided. Lack of studio interest and modest budget rate a 5 out of 10.

What about Fox's history? In my opinion (and this is where there's probably the greatest room for variation of opinion), Fox has made one good superhero film (First Class) and more mediocre or bad superhero films than I can remember well enough to count. Sure, it's encouraging that First Class was one of the most recent, but still I don't know how we can ignore a long history of Electra's because we had one good film. I'd rate Fox's history as a 4 (which would have been a 3 without First Class).

If it becomes clear that Fox is moving forward to this, I will try hope as hard as I can for a good film, but it's going to take much more encouraging information than we've had so far to truly believe they're going to pull it off.

 

[Zarex]

An Ant-Man sequel is probably unlikely, even if it overperforms at the box office. Since it's taken him about a decade to put this film into motion, it's unlikely Edgar Wright will stick around for the sequel. And Marvel may have difficulty finding a replacement director who can match his visual style and tone.

GOTG, on the other hand, would have to be a Green Lantern style disaster in order to not get a sequel. Marvel is desperate to expand beyond its "core four" Avengers characters, and if GOTG underperforms they'll make whatever changes are necessary to attract an audience for the second go round.

 

[Green Goblin]

After first class I have faith in FOX. I do agree that F4 would be better at Marvel simply because they fit with the MCU better than X-Verse.

 

[Mr.M]

An Ant-Man sequel is probably unlikely, even if it overperforms at the box office. Since it's taken him about a decade to put this film into motion, it's unlikely Edgar Wright will stick around for the sequel. And Marvel may have difficulty finding a replacement director who can match his visual style and tone.

GOTG, on the other hand, would have to be a Green Lantern style disaster in order to not get a sequel. Marvel is desperate to expand beyond its "core four" Avengers characters, and if GOTG underperforms they'll make whatever changes are necessary to attract an audience for the second go round.

Or they could have tried to secure FF instead of screwing around and playing games. That's the position I think they will find themselves in. Maybe Gunn knocks it out of the park though. Maybe... I don't see it. Marvel has no one else to blame but themselves for overexposing their A listers, but I think they already made the bank they were looking for and much more. 2021 may not even be relevant.

 

[Zarex]

Or they could have tried to secure FF instead of screwing around and playing games. That's the position I think they will find themselves in. Maybe Gunn knocks it out of the park though. Maybe... I don't see it. Marvel has no one else to blame but themselves for overexposing their A listers, but I think they already made the bank they were looking for and much more. 2021 may not even be relevant.

Hopefully FOX and Marvel are negotiating as we speak and we'll hear world about a deal before the scheduled production start date in September. Disney/Marvel will definitely deserve their share of the blame if the FOX FF reboot fails and the franchise is irreparably damaged. Or if it succeeds and the team is kept out of the MCU "in perpetuity".

Though Thor, Cap, the Hulk, Iron Man, the Hulk, and the Avengers have been comic book A-listers since the 1960s, they were much farther down in the alphabet when it comes to their film prospects. With the MCU brand having been established, I can definitely see Feige and company adding at least a few of Marvel's new franchise launches to the A-list. By 2021 Sony and FOX may have squeezed all of the box office revenue out of the Spider-man and X-Men franchises, leaving the MCU alone in the superhero movie game - with Warner still trying to put together a Justice League film.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Strange to think that in a Fox "X-Men/FF" universe, the Fantastic Four would exist as the only socially-accepted superheroes/super-powered beings in the world...

The only way to not make that awkward would be to make the FF outcast as well, which would completely nullify a key aspect of their characters: their celebrity status.

But, I guess, I wouldn't surprised if Fox took numerous liberties with the Fantastic Four in order to shoehorn them into their X-universe in order to retain their rights...

Franklin Richards could be a duck-billed platypus for all I care, cramming the FF into the movie X-Universe is stupid and nonsensical.

They're planning it out, it's not cramming or shoehorning them in.

I wonder if we have some hints here that the FF will be retro. That could solve the issue of FF not fitting into the mutant hating world of the present day X-Men films.

There has been talk of a retro FF since before the first two films and it seems the X-men time jumping has made that very feasable.

i'd LOVE a retro FF. imo they work best in that timeline.

Though Thor, Cap, the Hulk, Iron Man, the Hulk, and the Avengers have been comic book A-listers since the 1960s

I'd place them as B-listers. Hulk is probably the biggest out of them the rest have never sold as much as X-Men or Spider-Man. Even with the successful movies they don't sell as many book or have as many videogames and cartoons

 

[Whiskey Tango]

They're planning it out, it's not cramming or shoehorning them in.

They can 'plan it out' all they like, if their intent is to squeeze the relatively light, adventurous & celebrity-themed FF into the darker & more socially-aware crew of outcasts in the X-Universe then something isn't going to work. So what they'll end up doing is taking a crowbar to the FF until they aren't really the FF any more. It's a crap idea. Stop, Fox. Stop.

 

[Zarex]

I'd place them as B-listers. Hulk is probably the biggest out of them the rest have never sold as much as X-Men or Spider-Man. Even with the successful movies they don't sell as many book or have as many videogames and cartoons

For comics, I consider any character or team that can maintain a title over a few decades or so as A-list. I'd put Spider-man, X-Men, Wolverine, Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Hulk, Avengers, Daredevil, FF and Punisher on the A-list, though I may have left out one or two.

 

[SpiderCool]

All Marvel has to do is write a comic called Fantastic Four Movie, then make a movie based on that.

 

[kaijunexus]

They're planning it out, it's not cramming or shoehorning them in.

You have to understand...this isn't like throwing the FF or even the X-Men into a larger Marvel universe where multiple properties bump around and there's room to maneuver.

This is "FF + X-Men" we're talking about. Not "FF + X-Men + 1000 other Marvel characters".

It's like making a strictly Spider-Man + Ghost Rider universe. Seperately, those characters and their worlds are great. When thrown into a massive universe filled with other characters, sometimes they meet up and can have interesting stories. But together alone? With nothing else? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Some individual properties go great together even without a larger universe because they fit well together tonally. FF and X-Men do not.

 

[DrCosmic]

I'll admit it's a bit weird - but it's been done before on multiple occasions. There's a strange bit of crossover there that works, with Franklin as a mutant baby or traveling to the Shi'ar Empire or whatever, or Onslaught, that focused pretty tightly on the FF and X-Men. It works, in its own way, especially for one offs, not unlike the X-Men Star Trek crossover.

I think having the FF be accepted really shines light on exactly why people dislike mutants. It doesn't make sense in 616 because there are so many people with so many different kinds of powers, but in a universe where the FF are just four people, and they are public and have a PR crew, that makes them being accepted and mutants not being accepted make a lot of sense. Plus, it brings tension with the X-Men, and with working with the X-Men. That's good story. Making them not liked to "prove" why FF/X-Men shouldn't happen in film as it has in comics is not good story.