Superman Returns The lifting of NK = Utterley Heroic?

[afan]

We can spot the green k yes, but have your noticed, its a lot darker than the pure K Lex has in that scene and earlier in movie.

And mixing ingrediants does change the effect or taste if you will of whatever you are mixing doesnt it. As i said earlier, its like filling up half a pint of lager with half a pint of lemonade. When you do this, you dont end up with pure lemonade or pure lager do you? You end up with a shandy .

Hence, if the crystal is taking on the characteristics of BOTH the earth AND the green K at the same time, what you get is not a pure form of both, but a hybrid. Meaning the green k on NK is definately diluted IMO.

Just did a little internet research on "Shandy". Very interesting. I've never heard of it before, thanks for the reference. Don't know if i'll ever try it though, lemon ade and beer?

 

[Rob-el]

Just did a little internet research on "Shandy". Very interesting. I've never heard of it before, thanks for the reference. Don't know if i'll ever try it though, lemon ade and beer?

I'm not sure if they tried it everywhere but brewries in CAnada had a major "Twist Shandy" push in the mid 80's to try and capture the female market - the push didn't last very long!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Just did a little internet research on "Shandy". Very interesting. I've never heard of it before, thanks for the reference. Don't know if i'll ever try it though, lemon ade and beer?

I'm not sure if they tried it everywhere but brewries in CAnada had a major "Twist Shandy" push in the mid 80's to try and capture the female market - the push didn't last very long!

I VERY RARELY drink it myself, as it ruins the beautiful taste of lager. However, if i'm driving, i will have whats called a 'lager top', which is basically a pint of lager with a shot of lemonade in. I drink 2 of them when i'm driving to be on the safe side.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

To me, that is the best scene in the movie... Superman Lifting NK... the look on his eyes... the look of Luthor...it was perfect

I agree, i used to prefer the plane rescue, and although it is a better spetacle, the lifting of NK is more emotional IMO.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Just did a little internet research on "Shandy". Very interesting. I've never heard of it before, thanks for the reference. Don't know if i'll ever try it though, lemon ade and beer?

So does that mean you see my point of the Green K on NK being diluted?

 

[afan]

So does that mean you see my point of the Green K on NK being diluted?

Sorry, no, and here's why, using the "shandy" analogy..........the mixing does not dillute the effect of the alcohol in the lager or beer. Hence I don't understand how the mixing would dillute the effect of Green K.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Sorry, no, and here's why, using the "shandy" analogy..........the mixing does not dillute the effect of the alcohol in the lager or beer. Hence I don't understand how the mixing would dillute the effect of Green K.

Ah, but mixing Lager with lemonade does dilute the effect of the Alcohol as it weakens it. Here, if you drank 4 pints of Shandy and then drove, you wouldnt be over the limit. But if you drank 4 pints of full lager and drove, you would be.

Pouring in the lemonade weakens the effect of the alcohol as it is not as strong as its pure form.

 

[afan]

Ah, but mixing Lager with lemonade does dilute the effect of the Alcohol as it weakens it. Here, if you drank 4 pints of Shandy and then drove, you wouldnt be over the limit. But if you drank 4 pints of full lager and drove, you would be.

Assuming a shandy's formula is 50% lager and 50% lemonade, and you drink 4 pints of it you are only drinking 2 pints of lager, so of course you are drinking less alcohol than if you drank 4 pints of lager, but the alcohol in the shandy is not less effective or weakened, there is just less of it by volume.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Assuming a shandy's formula is 50% lager and 50% lemonade, and you drink 4 pints of it you are only drinking 2 pints of lager, so of course you are drinking less alcohol than if you drank 4 pints of lager, but the alcohol in the shandy is not less effective or weakened, there is just less of it by volume.

It is weakened though, as it doesnt effect you as much as a full pint would.

The lager is diluted by the lemonade .

 

[hippie_hunter]

I have to agree. Superman goes out of his way to save even his worst enemies. the only time I know of Superman truly trying to kill someone is Doomsday. The only other time I know of him trying to really do harm to someone was the neighbor he had in Metropolis who was beating his wife. Clark could take no more of overhearing it and got Batman in his sorry butt. oh, there is also the time he wasnt going to stop until he was wiping darksied off of the bottom of his boot in JLA. Flew him up to a high altitude as Superman and threatened to drop him. Other than that, he goes after personal risk to save those whom would harm him.

Superman killed Zod, Quex-Ul, and Faora. He almost killed Batman thinking that he was Darkseid, Brainiac, and Ruin killing Lois. And he considered killing Lex in Superman/Batman.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Superman killed Zod, Quex-Ul, and Faora. He almost killed Batman thinking that he was Darkseid, Brainiac, and Ruin killing Lois. And he considered killing Lex in Superman/Batman.

Well said, not to mention that in For Tomorrow, Superman put the world at risk by activating the 'Vanishing machine' also.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

See, I think that they left it in there just to show the sheer strength of Superman. To overcome Kryptonite's affects on him, and still be able to lift NK into space. IMO, I think that just goes to show just how much love he has for the human race and he didnt want Earth to suffer the same fate as Krypton, so he knew that he had to do something, or he would in fact be......alone!

Exactly, well said, sorry i missed this post before but it is a good point and THE reason the scene played out the way it did IMO.

It was there to show that Supermans greatest strength is his love for humanity.

 

[dar-El]

Ha!

 

[dar-El]

You say: It was there to show that Supermans greatest strength is his love for humanity.[/quote]

He loves humanity so much, that he leaves us for five years on a selfish, private quest to search for a planet we all know it was destroyed? Sorry but NO! The real superman would never have done that. Thats why i hate this movie and thats also why there'll be a divide amongst the lovers and haters. You didnt grow up reading or watching the character consiquently you have no clue what the character is about nor were you ever inspired by him to be the best you can be. Morally speaking singers superman has no morals hence the superabsence and superbrat. Furthermore if this had been a true sequel to S2 he wouldve known that leaving for a week or even five years wouldve left us without the help or guidance we so desperately need. (cmon if Zod can take over in a short time what would happen in five years? and i aint talking Lex. Try Darksied or Mongul) Some hero. This is exactly why singer should be fired cos like you, he just doesnt get it!

 

[Angeloz]

So Superman was also selfish in the comics and animated series for going to Krypton?

Angeloz

 

[dar-El]

Not exactly. In the animated series it was done in a couple of days in a far superior ship. In returns it was five years to make room for the brat. Simply put five years by his own choice is too long. If it had been a year absence in which he was held prisoner by mongul on warworld, it wouldve been more acceptable. He wouldve spent that time fighting to get back because he truley cares bout humanity. Now do you understand?

 

[Angeloz]

So because he had limited technology he was selfish?

Angeloz

 

[dar-El]

Lol! You're missing the point again. Lets start at the top. Clark is an alien who works as a reporter for a great newspaper. A job that isnt easy. Along comes a story that claims his homeworld may still exist. Without thinking of the consiquences he rushes off, builds a ship and spends five years on a search that is proven pointless. Evidence to support this 1) he was taught in the FOS that Krypton blew up 2) as superman he came accross kryptonite which most definatley proved that krypton blew up and as a damn good investigtive reporter, he would checks his sources. Truthfully he left without doing so or even attempting to tell Lois, the woman he supposedly loves. Now that is selfish! Had he bothered to think it over or look into it, he wouldve discoverd that it was all a lie created by Lex (thats in the returns script by the way). Instead it makes him look a fool. Couldnt have Lois, feels alone because of it so looks for anything that can help him feel normal i.e family. That just isnt what superman is a about.

 

[Angeloz]

So the lesson is you shouldn't believe astronomers?

Angeloz

 

[dar-El]

Lol! Did you read points 1&2 above? There was sufficient enough evidence to prove the astronomers wrong. Therefore he shouldve checked, double checked and possibliy even triple checked it before telling Lois and then leaving. Which he didnt. He just left. Not very thoughtful or responsible is it?

 

[afan]

Survivors.
That's the key, and also a missing detail in SR, if the story planted that seed, survivors of Krypton's catastrophic demise clinging desperately to life, it would have been out of character for Superman not to respond, and it would demonstrate that by totally falling for the ruse, he is not perfect.
Superman is not only about a responsibility to humanity, he would risk all to save any in need.
That being said he would also notify Earth of his intent to leave on his mission, and most importantly deliver a personal farewell to Lois.

 

[Angeloz]

But what if he couldn't prove them wrong? What if he wanted to check it was really gone? What if he wanted to see if there were survivors of some kind? I'll point to the animated series where there was a survivor.

Edited to add: If you can't tell afan and I posted at the same time so I didn't read his post until after I wrote this.

Angeloz

 

[dar-El]

In Donners continuity there were no survivors other than Kal-El, Zod, Ursa and Non. Krypton blew up and so did Rao the red krypton sun, so that says no survivors. But if some one like Brainiac or the eradicator had survived, it wouldve been because they left before krypton blew. Then they wouldve come here on their own accord. This wouldve been more interesting than returns. Think of this story: Superman destroys the empty fortress (like in donners2) and consiquently has no kryptonian connections other than zod and co. He feels alone and things arent going well with him and lois either. Then Brainiac shows up (because he knew of Jor-El's plan for Kal-El). He appears to be a good guy, so now Kal feels he isnt alone but then Brainiac shows his true colours, tries to take over the world and big blue has to stop him. Admittedly it seems repetative but not if you twist it a bit. Have Lex try to take them both down. (brainiac for technology, supes for personal reasons) He can frame supes, make him look like he's fighting brainiac for control of earth, making it easier to alienate him. Now humans dont trust him and want lex to kill them both but there's one woman standing in his way. Lois! She can help supes find the strength to fight back, as she has finally realised they can have a relationship as lois and clark.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You say: It was there to show that Supermans greatest strength is his love for humanity.

He loves humanity so much, that he leaves us for five years on a selfish, private quest to search for a planet we all know it was destroyed? Sorry but NO! The real superman would never have done that. Thats why i hate this movie and thats also why there'll be a divide amongst the lovers and haters. You didnt grow up reading or watching the character consiquently you have no clue what the character is about nor were you ever inspired by him to be the best you can be. Morally speaking singers superman has no morals hence the superabsence and superbrat. Furthermore if this had been a true sequel to S2 he wouldve known that leaving for a week or even five years wouldve left us without the help or guidance we so desperately need. (cmon if Zod can take over in a short time what would happen in five years? and i aint talking Lex. Try Darksied or Mongul) Some hero. This is exactly why singer should be fired cos like you, he just doesnt get it!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha, first learn some conversation skills.

Second, i dont have a clue about Superman? I watched all 4 Reeve movie's about 10 times each as a kid, and also i watched the Dean Cain series and Smallville on and off for years, as well as the Superman TAS and JLU TAS. Plus since SR i have read countless Superman comics from EVERY decade since the characters inception, so i think i have a bit of a clue.

Thirdly, YOUR vision of Superman isnt the same as everybody else's.

And Fourthly, how is Superman going to Krypton to check for potential survivors or too see if its still there selfish? Superman didnt KNOW FOR A FACT that Krypton was destroyed or that Jor-El was dead, he only had Jor-El's recordings to go on, and they could easily have been wrong.

 

[dar-El]

I have the skills. But when somone insults my intelligance i tend to drop them. Dont laugh at me, i take that personally! (plus it shows your ignorance) For the record ive been reading the comics and watching the shows since the day i was born. I am forever linked to myth it bcos Dar-el ( minus the - and a kryptonian name of the house of El no less) is my real name. Its a major part of who i am and i sure as hell dont watch it on and off. I watch everything that comes my way, all the time. For it inspires me. And truthfully i dont always agree with whats done. (for me new krypton in L&K was really lame and some of the recent smallville stuff is really ridiculas) I will admit though, Jor-El's recordings couldve been wrong. But singer (in the final cut in which it is truthfully judged) presented a film in which he left on vague, hearsay evidence. Thats what ticks me off. (and luthors ridiculas plan) No thought went into it whatsoever. and the kid was totally unneccisary (specially if you believe the rumors that he will be killed off, proving singer admits his mistake) Don get me wrong its a good first draft. But it needed a lot of improvement before being made. In the end, for what i get out of the character, its a badly thought out and edited film. It didnt explain the back story enough (trust me when i say this a lot of the haters would like it had it been done the right way) and it killed the character. One thing that illustrates this is the deleated scene where clark is in the barn reading the consiquences of his leaving and regretting it. Dont you think that wouldve been better than the pointless memory of young clark running though the corn field? At least then we'd know he cared. and yes my vision is my own. But at least to me he represents a great hero. Not an anti hero. To me he is man of high moral standards and of which i can look up to. And if, in the end you cant say that you respect what he means to me or that you understand what i (and all the haters as you call us) have been sayin, well it kinda proves that you're ignorant of others just like singers superman.