The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 5

[Rodrigo90]

People go on about his scream at the end. Does it make sense or not?
He thought of death as liberating, as therapy. But he's screaming worse than a frightened child when he falls from the tower. In my opinion, he should've laughed like Heath.
As Jack, he screamed as he fell, and as Joker, he should've laughed as he fell.
Or maybe it was just his natural fear of falling once again to his certain death, as he was lucky last time. Those last moments of his were a bit inconsistent with the rest of his time.

 

[regwec]

I don't think there was much suggestion that Nicholson's Joker wanted to die, or was indifferent to the prospect. He wasn't a nihilist so much as a "homicidal artist".

 

[Rodrigo90]

Yeah. That's the massive difference between Jack's Joker and Heath's.

 

[The Shape]

People go on about his scream at the end. Does it make sense or not?
He thought of death as liberating, as therapy. But he's screaming worse than a frightened child when he falls from the tower. In my opinion, he should've laughed like Heath.
As Jack, he screamed as he fell, and as Joker, he should've laughed as he fell.
Or maybe it was just his natural fear of falling once again to his certain death, as he was lucky last time. Those last moments of his were a bit inconsistent with the rest of his time.

I don't think Jack's scream can be viewed only as a scream of fear. Sounds like the way people scream when they're barreling down a roller coaster drop.

 

[The Joker]

It was definitely a scream of fear. It didn't sound like a joyous thrill scream people have on roller coasters. Although saying that people can be petrified on roller coasters, too.

Also his horrified and scared facial expression looking at the drop below punctuates the terrified scream that followed;

 

[The Shape]

To be fair, he had a lot of strain on his body as he was hanging there. I'm not trying to indicate that he wanted to die, and his fall there is under different circumstances than Heath's was, whereas Heath's Joker might have been laughing because he thought that he had succeeded in driving Batman to kill him. That wasn't the goal of Jack's Joker, by any means.

Still, my roller coaster analogy applies. While people often look terrified and scream as they barrel down roller coaster drops, it's all in good fun and they react that way because of the "thrill". As we saw when he is dead on the ground, it's clear that he died smiling. It's not only the "perma-smile" that makes him appear to be happy, and the fact that it appears he was smiling as he hit the ground and died only makes it harder to understand exactly what was going through his head or how he felt as he fell.

 

[The Shape]

Some Joker pics that I love:

 

[The Joker]

To be fair, he had a lot of strain on his body as he was hanging there. I'm not trying to indicate that he wanted to die, and his fall there is under different circumstances than Heath's was, whereas Heath's Joker might have been laughing because he thought that he had succeeded in driving Batman to kill him. That wasn't the goal of Jack's Joker, by any means.

That's the point. He didn't want to die. He was trying to get away. That's why he looked terrified when he looked down at the drop he was being pulled towards. Because that shot of his scared face is followed directly by a shot of the drop below, showing the audience what he was looking so scared about. The fall to his death.

Still, my roller coaster analogy applies. While people often look terrified and scream as they barrel down roller coaster drops, it's all in good fun and they react that way because of the "thrill". As we saw when he is dead on the ground, it's clear that he died smiling. It's not only the "perma-smile" that makes him appear to be happy, and the fact that it appears he was smiling as he hit the ground and died only makes it harder to understand exactly what was going through his head or how he felt as he fell.

I don't think the roller coaster analogy does apply because people willingly get on a roller coaster for the thrill of it. Did he look like he was enjoying one single second of the prospect of being pulled down slowly to his death? Rhetorical question. Of course not. Since when has pain or physical strain ever stopped Joker from showing he's getting his jollies off something.

His corpse having a smile on it doesn't mean he wasn't scared when he fell. It could, and most likely meant he appreciated the irony that Batman made him fall again to another death. Only he won't be walking away from this one.

 

[Travesty]

Well, maybe one day George Lucas will come in and remaster B89, and take the scream out.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I can see the Jawas dealing meth on street corners and everything

 

[The Shape]

Well, maybe one day George Lucas will come in and remaster B89, and take the scream out.

I've always loved the scream, so **** George Lucas.

I used to mimic the scream whenever I dropped Joker toys off balconies and ****.

 

[The Joker]

Speaking of the toys does anyone remember Batmania of 1989? I was 8 years old at the time, I live in Ireland, and I wasn't a Batman fan yet (Returns made me a fan in '92), so I don't remember anything of it.

Was it centered in America or was it a worldwide thing?

 

[Travesty]

I live in the U.S, and it was huge. Toys/merch everywhere. Not sure about anywhere else in the world, but I'm sure it was popular.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I suppose with the lack of the internet and incredibly varied foreign release dates, it would be hard to measure just how much BATMAN' 89 impacted certain locales.

I wasn't even born when it came out so I haven't got a clue. However, here's an op-ed about it's UK/Ireland release on the 11th August 1989:

I had never seen a line of people actually queuing around the block, except in vintage documentaries about Star Wars, but at 11.30pm on the 10th of August, I was one of hundreds of eager young things snaking around the Palladium cinema in Llandudno forgoing sleep for a chance to watch Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson duke it out at a midnight screening. I couldn’t have countenanced wasting five minutes of August the 11th without watching this film. Duly, the curtains drew back at exactly 12.01am to excited cheers and sportingly suppressed yawns as Danny Elfman’s template-setting score drew us around the stone contours of the Bat-logo. By this point, many of our party had passed out in excitement.

http://www.heyuguys.com/wait-till-get-load-1989-year-changed-hollywood/

 

[The Shape]

Batman was everywhere. I love how the Batsymbol was the driving force of the movie's marketing. So simple, yet so effective and iconic.

 

[Greens]

The eyebrows in full force! Jack was such a perfect choice.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Can you imagine if Jack had played the part around his Cuckoo's Nest days... He had the perfect physique for it back then.

 

[regwec]

I just watched this, for about the billionth time. I frickin love Jack's Joker. He is a selfish, venal, exhibitionist, murderous sexual predator. But he is human- a horrible, corrupted human. Unlike Ledger's omniscient painted daemon, Jack's Joker is the worst of 80s masculinity, unleashed by a lurid chemical infusion. It's so, so fitting.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Can you imagine if Jack had played the part around his Cuckoo's Nest days... He had the perfect physique for it back then.

Then again

We'll just say he was younger and less tubby

 

[Keehar]

Didn't like the Nicholson version of the Joker. Prince dancing was embarrassing, all that Vicki Vale fatal attraction stuff was so not Joker, killing Batman's folks, the obsessive artist thing, having a definite name Jack Napier, and like the most boring feud with Batman. Oh yeah and that flesh make up he always kept putting on to look normal was annoying too. Who'd he think he was fooling. Nicholson was also a bit on the portly side for Joker.

Still he looks better than Letoker. Not saying much though but give him credit where it's due.

 

[I Am The Knight]

all that Vicki Vale fatal attraction stuff

 

[AnneFan]

Well, maybe one day George Lucas will come in and remaster B89, and take the scream out.

Hah. Damn you Lucas!

I don't mind the scream. Nicholson's Joker was the party man. He didn't want to die because that meant his fun was over. Ledger's version had specific goals and his laugh was one of victory, thinking Batman had finally snapped to kill him.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Eh, I don't mind the death scream. I don't think Joker has to be utterly fearless. Some of the best moments in BTAS are when Bats intimidates him and Joker reacts with fear (before eventually recovering and laughing it off).

 

[Penguin]

I love the apartment scene and the mirror scene the most out of all his scenes. Nicholson’s Joker is great, he seemed a little too insecure for me, but that’s okay. I just love Nicholson’s performance.

Yeah, it didn’t look like Nicholson’s Joker was having too much fun hanging on for dear life. Though, it doesn’t bother me, I like when Joker is portrayed as both a coward and a guy that laughs at death.

I love that they made Joker fearless and cowardly in BTAS.

Oh yeah and that flesh make up he always kept putting on to look normal was annoying too. Who'd he think he was fooling..

They were trying to do the whole master of disguise thing with Joker where he’d take flesh colored makeup and apply it to try to deceive people. Yeah, he really didn’t trick anyone, but perhaps it showed his “artistic” skills?

 

[The Joker]

Didn't like the Nicholson version of the Joker. Prince dancing was embarrassing, all that Vicki Vale fatal attraction stuff was so not Joker, killing Batman's folks, the obsessive artist thing, having a definite name Jack Napier, and like the most boring feud with Batman. Oh yeah and that flesh make up he always kept putting on to look normal was annoying too. Who'd he think he was fooling. Nicholson was also a bit on the portly side for Joker.

I agree with most of that to some degree. I didn't really mind he was a bit dumpy. It's not like he was carrying junk in the trunk. It's no secret fans hated the killing the parents angle. That was contrived and unnecessary, and spoils their relationship for me. In fact I'd call it one of the worst ideas ever done for a CBM. Even script writer Sam Hamm disowns it. The Prince stuff was forced in by WB as a marketing ploy. Burton didn't even want it in there. Things like this are why Burton made it a condition that he had more creative control for the sequel.

The flesh make up thing was strange. The only time I've seen Joker do that is when he's disguising himself, which he clearly was not trying to do in the movie as everyone knew he was Joker. I mean he even announces himself as Joker on TV when he delivers that message about dumping 20 mil on the crowd at midnight. I did hate that he kept covering up his clown visage like that because his Joker look was great. The Vicki Vale stalking thing was just bad, and a waste of time that could have been spent on more interesting things.

The Batman feud, have to agree there, too. Only one proper scene with Batman and Joker face to face in the movie, that's the end, and it's basically Batman wailing on him for killing his parents. That was a big disappointment for me, and doesn't encapsulate the Batman/Joker relationship for me at all.

But I love any scene where Batman beats seven shades of crap out of Joker in anger. They are always awesome (interrogation room scene in TDK, Batman Beyond Return of the Joker flashback scene when Joker reveals what he did to Robin, Knightfall where Batman beats the hell out of him for what he did to Jason Todd etc). This one was really good. My favorite part is when Vicki is falsely seducing Joker, and Batman just appears at his side, says the dance with the devil line, then punches him and Joker goes flying face first into the church bell. OWTCH!

I don't want to sound like a total negative Nancy. I do really like Nicholson's Joker (see avatar). So I'll mention some of my favorite scenes;

- "Mirror....MIRROR!!!"
- When he kills Grissom.
- "Ooooh oop oop. Hahahahaha"
- The Joker commercial for smilex
- The Mimes massacre at city hall
- Pulling a long barrel gun out of his pants
- Batman beating the crap out of him in the church

Still he looks better than Letoker.

Not to go off topic, but him and the Joker from The Batman cartoon are the only two I can't stomach visually.