The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 5

[Keehar]

No. In fact that whole thing with Alicia's scarred face and the mask is a Black Mask rip off. He had a girlfriend named Circe who's face he scarred up, and then she went around wearing a mask;

That's weak. Knew it felt off for Joker's kind of craziness.

Black Mask is hardcore though. How'd he wreck her face? Burn it?

Gothamites have been shown to be stupid in every single medium. They have to be, in order to have crazy villains run loose, while they rely on a Bat-Man to help round them up.

It's pretty much a given.

Nope Gothamites were the dumbest of the dumb in B'89. Schumacher's Gotham were smarter than them haha.

Stupid citizens ain't the reason Gotham needs Batman. It's that the Cops can't handle the crime.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Going by that, American media would've eventually made Ted Bundy a celebrity in the vain of Kim Kardashian if he hadn't of been executed?

 

[Travesty]

Nah, I still think Nolan's had the dumbest. He was trying to create a "grounded" and "realistic" world, and he made all of the cops and SWAT, in the entire city, go into the sewer all at once.

By far, one of the dumbest things I heard of.

 

[Keehar]

Going by that, American media would've eventually made Ted Bundy a celebrity in the vain of Kim Kardashian if he hadn't of been executed?

No way hosay. Champagne corks were popping everywhere when scumbag Bundy finally went to the chair. He'd been on death row for years.

Nah, I still think Nolan's had the dumbest. He was trying to create a "grounded" and "realistic" world, and he put all of the cops and SWAT to go into the sewer all at once.

By far, one of the dumbest things I heard of.

Nope still not as dumb as Burton's Gothamites who's Cops don't even respond to a villain threat after he announces it on Television hours before haha.

 

[Rodrigo90]

And I found a lot of Nolan's side characters to be unlikeable *****es.

 

[The Joker]

Nope still not as dumb as Burton's Gothamites who's Cops don't even respond to a villain threat after he announces it on Television hours before haha.

That was really stupid. I mean the press like Knox and Vicki can show up to Joker's parade to snap a few photos, but Gordon and his men can't.

Even the 60's TV show Gordon was more on the ball than that.

 

[Keehar]

That was really stupid. I mean the press like Knox and Vicki can show up to Joker's parade to snap a few photos, but Gordon and his men can't.

Even the 60's TV show Gordon was more on the ball than that.

Haha yeah. Worst Commissioner Gordon ever. Did he even have a scene with Batman in this one? I can't remember any.

 

[Rodrigo90]

No way hosay. Champagne corks were popping everywhere when scumbag Bundy finally went to the chair. He'd been on death row for years.



Nope still not as dumb as Burton's Gothamites who's Cops don't even respond to a villain threat after he announces it on Television hours before haha.

But it's a scary thought to imagine Bundy being made into a reformed celebrity character, doing tv interviews and writing books. Joker from TDKR in that same position was pretty funny, in a satirical way.

Well, the cops probably didn't know where he was going to attack...I don't know

 

[Travesty]

Nope still not as dumb as Burton's Gothamites who's Cops don't even respond to a villain threat after he announces it on Television hours before haha.

There was no threat, he just lied to the people about giving out money. The cops were out after the gas deployed.

Or maybe Nolan's Gordon ordered every single officer in the city to go into the sewers?

 

[Keehar]

But it's a scary thought to imagine Bundy being made into a reformed celebrity character, doing tv interviews and writing books. Joker from TDKR in that same position was pretty funny, in a satirical way.

He wasn't a celeb. That moustache doctor of his said he was always on the talk show circuit and got Joker on it after Joker wink winked nudged nudged that he'd like to go on it to tell his story.

 

[Keehar]

There was no threat, he just lied to the people about giving out money. The cops were out after the gas deployed.

Or maybe Nolan's Gordon ordered every single officer in the city to go into the sewers?

Hahaha what the guy who like tried to kill the whole city says he's gonna be at some parade at midnight and that's not a threat? They think he's not going to be up to no good? The Cops don't think they should be there to arrest this dangerous wanted guy who's already murdered a bunch of people?

Too funny. Inspector Clouseau could run the Police force better than that.

 

[The Joker]

There was no threat, he just lied to the people about giving out money. The cops were out after the gas deployed.

Oh come on, Trav, the Joker had just tainted Gotham's products with poison in an attempt to kill them all, and murdered a lot of them with it in the process. Whether he made a threat or not, and they'd have to be mind numbingly stupid to believe he was only there to give free money to the crowd, they are already bound by duty to go and capture him for all the crap he's done.

And yeah, sending all the Police into the sewers wasn't the brightest move, and I'm not defending it, but you know any Police response to a deadly threat is better than none at all.

 

[Rodrigo90]

He wasn't a celeb. That moustache doctor of his said he was always on the talk show circuit and got Joker on it after Joker wink winked nudged nudged that he'd like to go on it to tell his story.

But if he had of completed it, without murdering his entire audience, he might have been made into something bigger on the celeb scale
It's actually an idea I could write about in my Fanfic page
Joker attempting to show how much like sheep we are to people who are famous for the wrong reasons!

 

[Travesty]

Yeah, but again, he didn't threaten them, you just made that up. I mean, you're the one laughing at it, but it didn't happen that way. Lol

And yeah, they're not that smart in any medium. That's the point of needing Batman. Lol, you need to try harder.

 

[Keehar]

Yeah, but again, he didn't threaten them, you just made that up. I mean, you're the one laughing at it, but it didn't happen that way. Lol

And yeah, they're not that smart in any medium. That's the point of needing Batman. Lol, you need to try harder.

I am laughing because what you're saying is stupid and just ain't true. Imagine if Bin Laden was still alive and made a TV broadcast saying hey guys I'm going to hang out in Times Square tonight, that there wouldn't be a bazillion Cops waiting for him. Wouldn't happen any other way.

He is a walking threat. Like Joker. Mass murdering terrorist. Priority one to capture. Try harder. HA! Yeah good one.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

He's become gayer over time, if that's what you're driving at. His obsession with Batman, once a conventional antagonism towards a heroic nemesis, has lately been developed into an unrequited sexual love.

Exactly. The point is the Joker wasn't always like that. It's an interpretation, and there is like this pantheon of Batman writers whose interpretations are treated as the word of God, never to be contradicted. I don't mind them, but I do mind that people expect the Batman mythos to be depicted in such a specific way when it comes to the Burton movies, but then those rules seem to fly out the window for Nolan and he has carte blanche to rewrite the mythos as he sees fit. Nobody can tell me that he didn't alter the ideologies of characters like Ra's Al Ghul and Bane to fit his own themes, or that he didn't turn a career criminal like Two-Face into a suicidal vigilante who died the same day of his "rebirth". Why is a little thing like Joker's sexuality all the sudden so important when the simple fact is writers from 40 years ago probably weren't even concerned about what he does in his free time?

 

[Travesty]

Oh come on, Trav, the Joker had just tainted Gotham's products with poison in an attempt to kill them all, and murdered a lot of them with it in the process. Whether he made a threat or not, and they'd have to be mind numbingly stupid to believe he was only there to give free money to the crowd, they are already bound by duty to go and capture him for all the crap he's done.

And yeah, sending all the Police into the sewers wasn't the brightest move, and I'm not defending it, but you know any Police response to a deadly threat is better than none at all.

Ummm, I already said the cops/Gothamites were dumb in every medium of Batman we've seen. Again, that's the reason why they need Batman. If the cops were as compentant as you were hoping for, there wouldn't be a need for Batman.

But let's not try and lie/backout about both of your guys claims that The Joker threatened Gotham before the parade, cause he didn't. Which was what I wa responding to.

 

[Keehar]

Exactly. The point is the Joker wasn't always like that. It's an interpretation, and there is like this pantheon of Batman writers whose interpretations are treated as the word of God, never to be contradicted. I don't mind them, but I do mind that people expect the Batman mythos to be depicted in such a specific way when it comes to the Burton movies, but then those rules seem to fly out the window for Nolan and he has carte blanche to rewrite the mythos as he sees fit. Nobody can tell me that he didn't alter the ideologies of characters like Ra's Al Ghul and Bane to fit his own themes, or that he didn't turn a career criminal like Two-Face into a suicidal vigilante who died the same day of his "rebirth". Why is a little thing like Joker's sexuality all the sudden so important when the simple fact is writers from 40 years ago probably weren't even concerned about what he does in his free time?

Who cares if Joker wasn't always like that. The comics evolved him into that so it's valid. Part of who he is yeah.

Sexuality is a mega important thing for a character. Like especially when they use it to make a whole big boring Fatal Attraction kinda plot where Joker is chasing after some blonde he came across in a pic haha.

 

[The Joker]

Ummm, I already said the cops/Gothamites were dumb in every medium of Batman we've seen. Again, that's the reason why they need Batman. If the cops were as compentant as you were hoping for, there wouldn't be a need for Batman.

That's not really the point I was making. No Police force is so incompetent that they don't respond to the most dangerous threat in the city. I mean that's just cartoonish stupidity there. A city like that doesn't need Batman. It needs a new Police force.

But let's not try and lie/backout about both of your guys claims that The Joker threatened Gotham before the parade, cause he didn't. Which was what I wa responding to.

The very fact he said he was going to be there is a threat. Because the Joker is a threat to Gotham. Or do you think it's safe for a mass murdering terrorist to be among the people he had been trying to kill?

He didn't have to verbally say he was going to kill everyone for it to be seen as a threat. His very presence there is a threat.

 

[Decepticonus]

That was very different. He was in custody, with a legion of Cops guarding the building. He appeared to be a neutered threat. The news also stated there had been public outrage that the Joker was billed to appear on the show.

Unlike in Batman '89 where he was free, with an army of henchman, and literally just days ago tried to kill the whole city.



Forgive me but on what basis are you assuming that if he was alive today, the people of America (whom he allegedly wanted to kill) would go nuts for him and run and greet him and shake his hand?

Not to mention Che's history continues to be rewritten and re-imagined. There was no such issue with the Joker.

The fact that the t-shirt business of him is still thriving or Occupy people. Regardless, let's try not to stray too much into the politics thread, I'd hate for that.

My overall point is people have an attraction to these sick individuals, it is much like the car crash on the highway you can't help but look at it. Or the people who have some fascination with Charles Manson. But who knows, maybe they didn't care about it, ignored it and wanted the millions because it was '89 and Reganomics weren't kind to them (damn it, told myself to table the politics).

 

[Keehar]

The fact that the t-shirt business of him is still thriving or Occupy people. Regardless, let's try not to stray too much into the politics thread, I'd hate for that.

My overall point is people have an attraction to these sick individuals, it is much like the car crash on the highway you can't help but look at it. Or the people who have some fascination with Charles Manson. But who knows, maybe they didn't care about it, ignored it and wanted the millions because it was '89 and Reganomics weren't kind to them (damn it, told myself to table the politics).

That dude Manson didn't try and waste his followers. Joker like tried to kill all these people. Had them afraid to use their own shopping products. The problem was they were world class idiots who saw dollar signs. What's his face the annoying Press guy called it Gotham's greed.

 

[Decepticonus]

Oh come on, Trav, the Joker had just tainted Gotham's products with poison in an attempt to kill them all, and murdered a lot of them with it in the process. Whether he made a threat or not, and they'd have to be mind numbingly stupid to believe he was only there to give free money to the crowd, they are already bound by duty to go and capture him for all the crap he's done.

And yeah, sending all the Police into the sewers wasn't the brightest move, and I'm not defending it, but you know any Police response to a deadly threat is better than none at all.

Agree, 100%. I'll defend Nolan on the substance that the League of Shadows in the Nolanverse are like the equivalent of like Al-Qaedea or something (loosely), they have a bomb and what not so yeah at least there was some response.

But '89 Joker - no response to threat was bad. I do think there was a scene originally where Joker threatened to kill 100 people an hour if they didn't comply to him showing up to dump money and the cops gave in. Still kinda lame and yeah didn't make the final cut BUT at least it would of held up... something.

 

[Travesty]

That's not really the point I was making. No Police force is so incompetent that they don't respond to the most dangerous threat in the city. I mean that's just cartoonish stupidity there. A city like that doesn't need Batman. It needs a new Police force.



The very fact he said he was going to be there is a threat. Because the Joker is a threat to Gotham. Or do you think it's safe for a mass murdering terrorist to be among the people he had been trying to kill?

He didn't have to verbally say he was going to kill everyone for it to be seen as a threat. His very presence there is a threat.

What, are you kidding me, they're allllll cartoonishly bad.

I mean, I can point out TONS of instances in the comics, 60s show, movies, BTAS, etc, where The Joker is out and about doing his thing in the city around cops and Gothamites alone. From him having his own casino, to him painting pictures for Gotham's wealthy, etc. This is all done in public, for all to see and interact with him. Hell, even Batman/Bruce will interact with him during some of these times, even though he's a "known terrorist".

Im not sure why you're acting like this is the first and only time something like this has ever happened?

This all seems like too much back pedaling to what I originally responded to.

 

[Decepticonus]

What, are you kidding me, they're allllll cartoonishly bad.

I mean, I can point out TONS of instances in the comics, 60s show, movies, BTAS, etc, where The Joker is out and about doing his thing in the city around cops and Gothamites alone. From him having his own casino, to him painting pictures for Gotham's wealthy, etc. This is all done in public, for all to see and interact with him. Hell, even Batman/Bruce will interact with him during some of these times, even though he's a "known terrorist".

Im not sure why you're acting like this is the first and only time something like this has ever happened?

Forgive me but can you cite another example, possibly from BTAS? Not to be a dick and call you out but I honestly cannot think of any examples.

 

[The Joker]

The fact that the t-shirt business of him is still thriving or Occupy people. Regardless, let's try not to stray too much into the politics thread, I'd hate for that.

Ok without going into politics I'll sum it up like this; Che Guevara had done a lot of good. He traveled throughout South America and was radicalized by the poverty, hunger, and disease he witnessed. Fulgencio Batista was pretty bad at the time and change was needed and Che and Fidel the rest removed him from power. A lot of people were happy about that.

I've no strong opinion on the man, but he was seen as a freedom revolutionist with good intentions. I believe that's why there's enough support to put him on t-shirts in Cuba and so forth.

At best there's a dividing opinion on him. But that's because there's arguments for good things he did for many people, like some of the ones I mentioned. Not to mention his history is often rewritten and revised.

Who could say the same for the Joker?

Sorry that was a bit longer than I intended it to be, but I just wanted to be clear on why there's a world of difference between these two men.

Agree, 100%. I'll defend Nolan on the substance that the League of Shadows in the Nolanverse are like the equivalent of like Al-Qaedea or something (loosely), they have a bomb and what not so yeah at least there was some response.

But '89 Joker - no response to threat was bad. I do think there was a scene originally where Joker threatened to kill 100 people an hour if they didn't comply to him showing up to dump money and the cops gave in. Still kinda lame and yeah didn't make the final cut BUT at least it would of held up... something.

Thank you. That's all I'm saying.

What, are you kidding me, they're allllll cartoonishly bad.

I mean, I can point out TONS of instances in the comics, 60s show, movies, BTAS, etc, where The Joker is out and about doing his thing in the city around cops and Gothamites alone. From him having his own casino, to him painting pictures for Gotham's wealthy, etc. This is all done in public, for all to see and interact with him. Hell, even Batman/Bruce will interact with him during some of these times, even though he's a "known terrorist".

Im not sure why you're acting like this is the first and only time something like this has ever happened?

I don't know what comics or movies you're referring to, but in BTAS he did not have his own casino. A millionaire built a casino in his image (and claimed it was built in honor of the classic Joker image associated with cards and games) so Joker would destroy it and he would collect on the insurance. Painting pictures for Gotham's wealthy....are you talking about the 60's TV show there? Because that is about the only show where they could get away with something as cartoony as that and have it feel normal for that campy world.

As for Bruce Wayne interacting with him, he's Batman. He's not afraid of him. When did Bruce publicly interact with him? I only recall the casino episode in BTAS, and all the card dealers were dressed in Joker costumes. Nobody thought they were the real Joker.

Forgive me but can you cite another example, possibly from BTAS? Not to be a dick and call you out but I honestly cannot think of any examples.

Nor can I. But I think the painting pictures one he means is from the Adam West show.