Batman Forever The Official Batman Forever Thread - Part 2

[AnneFan]

If ANY Batman movie deserves a re-examination... it's this one!

I agree. There's a good movie in there. One that would really come alive if there was a director's cut.

 

[TMC1982]

Burton was right to demand full creative control. It wasn't a matter of ego, but of creativity.

And that's another fundamental problem that I have w/ Returns. It's way too much of a case of "style over substance". It's as if Burton and company took a series of random set pieces (Burton has a great eye for visuals, but he arguably at least at the time, wasn't the best storyteller) and strung them together to make a barely coherent story. Returns is all over the place from a script standpoint. There are way, way too many subplots and false climaxes. I don't know where Michael Keaton was going when he said that he didn't like the script for what would become Batman Forever, when the script for Returns sucked on its own terms.

 

[Naked Shia]

Returns script is way more interesting than people give it credit for. It has a lot of things to say about humanity.

 

[TMC1982]

The movie barely got any love on it's 20th anniversary. It's criminally underrated and forever tarnished by Batman & Robin.

It was the first BATMAN movie I ever saw in the cinema at five years old, so for that it'll always be a special movie for me. Despite any flaws it has and the blatant studio manipulation it contains, it was still the perfect blend of character, romance, action and good old 90's excess.

So yes, while it has now become a true product of it's time, that shouldn't mean it doesn't hold some enjoyment for the modern viewer. If ANY Batman movie deserves a re-examination... it's this one!

Holy 20th birthday, Batman! 13 reasons why Batman Forever is the best Batman film ever

The Film Canon: Batman Forever (1995)

Batman Forever: The Case for and Against Schumacher's Film on Its 20th Anniversary

20 Years Ago, 'Batman Forever' Was 'Jurassic World' Of Its Day

Five Reasons Why Batman Forever Is Better Than You Remember

‘Batman Forever’ 20 Years Later: Chris O’Donnell Looks Back on the Franchise

The action figures and lost legacy of Batman Forever, 20 years later





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[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Thanks, TMC.

 

[Elevator Man]

I enjoyed BF as a little kid but I don't know if I'd consider it underrated. I thinks it's nothing more but a fun 90s popcorn movie with some interesting themes about duality.

 

[DigificWriter]

It continues to puzzle me even now how people can claim that Batman Forever is, to borrow a phrase from one of those articles, "ludicrous and light", because it really isn't.

What it is, though, is a balance between the film noir tone of Batman '89 and the quasi-horror tone of Batman Returns.

This is especially notable in the portrayals and characterization of Val Kilmer's Bruce Wayne and Batman (which builds on what Michael Keaton did with the character), Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face, and Jim Carrey's Riddler (both of whose characterizations blend the over-the-top noir insanity of Jack Nicholson's Joker with the horror of Danny DeVito's Penguin).

 

[BlueLightning]

Could you elaborate on that last sentence? Are you implying a notable element of horror in the characterization of The Riddler and Two-Face? Really?

 

[DigificWriter]

Could you elaborate on that last sentence? Are you implying a notable element of horror in the characterization of The Riddler and Two-Face? Really?

They're not as omnipresent as in/with DeVito's Penguin, but there are definitely elements of Horror in Carrey's Riddler and TLJ's Two-Face.

As a specific example, the way Riddler goes after his boss at Wayne Tech is very reminiscent of the 'kill' scenes from I Know What You Did Last Summer, albeit with less emphasis on 'atmosphere', and the way Two-Face's goons attack the circus is reminiscent of the carnival climax from the film Something Wicked This Way Comes (which is very much of the Horror genre even though it was distributed by Walt Disney Pictures).

There are also subtle Horror elements in the way in which both characters' respective manias manifest themselves.

 

[Penguin]

Forever isn't the greatest Batman film, but I found it fun. It kept me entertained for most of the movie, especially Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones.

 

[BlueLightning]

They're not as omnipresent as in/with DeVito's Penguin, but there are definitely elements of Horror in Carrey's Riddler and TLJ's Two-Face.

As a specific example, the way Riddler goes after his boss at Wayne Tech is very reminiscent of the 'kill' scenes from I Know What You Did Last Summer, albeit with less emphasis on 'atmosphere', and the way Two-Face's goons attack the circus is reminiscent of the carnival climax from the film Something Wicked This Way Comes (which is very much of the Horror genre even though it was distributed by Walt Disney Pictures).

There are also subtle Horror elements in the way in which both characters' respective manias manifest themselves.

I'm sorry, I don't see it. The interpretation of both actors don't lend to this particular interpretation.

 

[DigificWriter]

The interpretation of both actors don't lend to this particular interpretation.

I disagree, but to each their own.

 

[The Joker]

Riddler and Two Face were as cartoonish as they come. Especially Two Face. They spend the movie trying to out ham each other.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Riddler and Two Face were as cartoonish as they come. Especially Two Face. They spend the movie trying to out ham each other.

Jones couldn't sanction Carrey's ''buffoonery'', so instead he decided to outdo him at every turn.

 

[DigificWriter]

Nicholson's Joker, DeVito's Penguin, and Pfeiffer's Catwoman are also cartoonish in their own way, and I stand by my analysis of Batman Forever as a blending of the tone of Batman '89 and Batman Returns in terms of its tone and the way it handles its characterization.

 

[Penguin]

I love that Two-Face referred to himself as '"we" when he'd talk.

 

[Decepticonus]

I love that Two-Face referred to himself as '"we" when he'd talk.

Well he had to get one thing right. Ashame, because Tommy lee Jones is a legitimately good actor.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Those two were putting on a cheese fest. There were some creepy elements to the Riddler characterization though.

 

[Decepticonus]

Those two were putting on a cheese fest. There were some creepy elements to the Riddler characterization though.

Eh too silly and over-the-top to be creepy. Sure, he had that stalker angle to leave as Bruce put it "love letters." And "if you kill him, ya don't learn nothing." Yeah pretty sure he KNEW Bruce was Batman.

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

It's definitely enjoyable in that "turn your brain off" kind of way. Sort of like reading a Silver Age comic really. Unlike B&R nothing sticks out as obviously treating its audience as stupid.

 

[Mace Dolex]

Jones couldn't sanction Carrey's ''buffoonery'', so instead he decided to outdo him at every turn.

Well it worked I guess, it remains one of those guilty pleasures that you just have to go along and think of it as a Batman story from the 50's.

Those two were putting on a cheese fest. There were some creepy elements to the Riddler characterization though.

I wasn't digging the skintight spandex Riddler outfit because you could almost see Jim Carrey's "frog eye".

 

[Penguin]

That scene with Two-Face flipping the coin until he gets his desired outcome bothers me so much.

 

[The Shape]

Nicholson's Joker, DeVito's Penguin, and Pfeiffer's Catwoman are also cartoonish in their own way, and I stand by my analysis of Batman Forever as a blending of the tone of Batman '89 and Batman Returns in terms of its tone and the way it handles its characterization.

The Joker, at least, is supposed to be relatively cartoonish and over-the-top, unlike Two Face.

 

[TMC1982]

Does anybody else think that the Joel Schumacher Batman movies (unintentionally of course) could possibly take place in a parallel universe from the Tim Burton ones (even though they're officially, supposed to be in the same continuity)? Kind of like how back in the day, there was an Earth 1 that designate the Silver Age (or at the time, modern, pre-Crisis) DC world and an Earth 2 to designate the Golden Age world.

The main thing that we still have to answer is why do Alfred and Commissioner Gordon (still played by Michael Gough and Pat Hingle respectively) still look the same in both directors' two films yet Gotham City (I would like to theorize that the Gotham in Batman Returns was meant to be another borough of the city), Harvey Dent (from Billy Dee Williams to Tommy Lee Jones), and even Bruce Wayne (from Michael Keaton to Val Kilmer to George Clooney) look different.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Or it just could be an overhauling sequel designed to make a bigger buck?