The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 3

[Uptown Finest]

Oh yeah I mean the man was messed up mentally, just a shame cause career could of been even greater.

 

[Doc Samson]

It was.

It certainly was, and the worst part IMO is that it overshadows a pretty damn good first fight between them. All anyone seems to remember is the bite, but the first fight was very enjoyable and entertaining.

I can remember listening to it through the blurry lines since we couldn't afford to buy it live. But I was still riveted. And as soon as I saw it on video from a friend, it was pretty epic seeing guys of that stature going at it, it was definitely the biggest fight for me growing up as a kid.

That's a wildly held belief by most people. After he left Rooney, the disciplinary side of his training went out the window.

For sure. If he had his support system intact, he wouldn't have been beaten by Holyfield or anyone else at the time IMO. People forget that it wasn't really his power, it was his movement & defense for a guy that powerful. He was like a shark, coming straight forward but you couldn't really hit him to keep him off you. His head movement was insane in his prime, how he would sidestep to set up his hook or the speed of his combinations, was freakish. He was groomed to be the best of all time, it's just sad that the people responsible for that couldn't be there for him when the fame and fortune came...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think Holyfield would have always beat Tyson. Holyfield's lack of size was irrelevant against Tyson, and no matter who his trainer was, you could get into Tyson's head. The way Holyfield was willing to sacrifice his body to mess with and hurt his opponent got on Tyson like nothing else. All the clinches and headbutts (which they were both responsible for) would have got to Tyson.

Also Tyson was the self-destructive one. Even if Rooney has lived for longer, he would have eventually gravitated away from him. Look at what Tyson did to Teddy Atlas.

 

[Silver Spider]

I agree. Unless you're a Super heavyweight like Lewis and to a lesser extent, Bowe, Holyfield is always going to be a problem for you.

 

[Uptown Finest]

I think Holyfield would have always beat Tyson. Holyfield's lack of size was irrelevant against Tyson, and no matter who his trainer was, you could get into Tyson's head. The way Holyfield was willing to sacrifice his body to mess with and hurt his opponent got on Tyson like nothing else. All the clinches and headbutts (which they were both responsible for) would have got to Tyson.

Also Tyson was the self-destructive one. Even if Rooney has lived for longer, he would have eventually gravitated away from him. Look at what Tyson did to Teddy Atlas.

Yeah the man put his hands on the man's daughter, totally out of line for him but yeah I think had Tyson had people watching over him and making sure he stay on the right path he could of went undefeated and been the greatest of all time.

 

[Silver Spider]

I don't think we saw enough of Tyson in his prime to be able to make those kinds of predictions. In the late 80s there's no doubt he was very good, but I've never bought into the Tyson GOAT speculation.

 

[STARMAN]

Tyson's size and style came with built-in limitations. Holyfield would have always given Tyson trouble because he would have offered resistance. Any resistance challenged Tyson's mental fortitude and revealed cracks in his armor.

 

[Docker2.0]

That Seal/Rodriguez fight on pbc/Spike.

 

[Docker2.0]

Uh-oh GGG!!


http://www.boxingnews24.com/2015/11/erislandy-lara-moving-to-160-targeting-golovkin/

 

[Fallen Angel]

Damn that would be over as soon as Golovkin connects but he'd have to catch him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Damn that would be over as soon as Golovkin connects but he'd have to catch him.

Canelo caught him.

GGG hits much harder, has better defense and cuts the ring off, arguably better then anyone.

But meaningless. GGG's next fight show be the winner of Canelo/Cotto.

 

[Docker2.0]

If that's the case then why won't GGG fight him? There's something in that fight that GGG's camp don't like. But now that he wants to clean out 160, he's going to have to eventually fight him.

PS- Canelo ain't fighting GGG no time soon and Cotto ain't never fighting him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If that's the case then why won't GGG fight him? There's something in that fight that GGG's camp don't like. But now that he wants to clean out 160, he's going to have to eventually fight him.

PS- Canelo ain't fighting GGG no time soon and Cotto ain't never fighting him.

GGG wants to fight the lineal champion. That is his only goal right now.

 

[Docker2.0]

Well if he fights Lee next, then we will see. But if it's another "stay busy" fight, then that will speak volumes.

 

[Silver Spider]

I just can't see how Lara could possibly beat GGG. Remember, this is the same guy that drew with Vanes and was lucky to get a draw with Carlos Molina.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I just can't see how Lara could possibly beat GGG. Remember, this is the same guy that drew with Vanes and was lucky to get a draw with Carlos Molina.

This is typical Docker. He does this with guys he doesn't like.

 

[Docker2.0]

@ Silver Spider: Styles make fights. And I've been on record that I think GGG would stop Lara but now I'm starting to have my doubts because again, there is something about Lara that GGG's camp wants no part of. They could say there is no money in that fight but was there money in the Monroe fight? Was there money in the Rubio fight? Was there money in the Lemiuex fight that did around 100,000 ppv? Sounds like the same thing that was said about fight Froch and JCC at 168 but fighting Ward at 164.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

@ Silver Spider: Styles make fights. And I've been on record that I think GGG would stop Lara but now I'm starting to have my doubts because again, there is something about Lara that GGG's camp wants no part of. They could say there is no money in that fight but was there money in the Monroe fight? Was there money in the Rubio fight? Was there money in the Lemiuex fight that did around 100,000 ppv? Sounds like the same thing that was said about fight Froch and JCC at 168 but fighting Ward at 164.

There is such thing as risk/reward. Less risk, for the same reward is not stupid. Also, Lara just moved up. You act like he was at 160 this entire time. Use some logic.

 

[Docker2.0]

This is typical Docker. He does this with guys he doesn't like.

Or maybe I can admit when a guy has flaws. Me saying GGG should fight Lara is not saying Lara beats GGG. Some of you just love to make a mountain out of anthill. GGG is a flawed fighter. He's a KO artist that cuts off the ring great. But he has only been in with a certain type of fighter, the kind that comes forward which is why a lot of people want to see him against a slick fighter like Lara or Ward. I honestly don't know how some of you can even make a debate about this.

 

[Docker2.0]

There is such thing as risk/reward. Less risk, for the same reward is not stupid. Also, Lara just moved up. You act like he was at 160 this entire time. Use some logic.

edit: You are right. I can admit my mistakes. But wasn't GGG willing to jump in the SMW fire to fight Froch and JCC Jr?

 

[Silver Spider]

I agree that styles make fights, but Golovkin is a terrible style match up for Lara. Angulo and Canelo implemented a poor mans version of what GGG does and were able to get to Lara and make him uncomfortable. I will never try to understand why boxing promoters and managers do what they do; saves headaches that way. But I'm pretty sure GGG and Abel Sanchez have a no problem with Lara.

 

[Docker2.0]

I agree that styles make fights, but Golovkin is a terrible style match up for Lara. Angulo and Canelo implemented a poor mans version of what GGG does and were able to get to Lara and make him uncomfortable. I will never try to understand why boxing promoters and managers do what they do; saves headaches that way. But I'm pretty sure GGG and Abel Sanchez have a no problem with Lara.

We agree. Again, I think GGG stops Lara. There is no dispute in my eyes about it. My thing is why not take it? Lara is THE BIGGEST name GGG will have on his resume to date and for a guy on the wrong side of 30, that is a huge deal! If Canelo or Cotto don't fight GGG next(believe me, neither one of them will)then dude is more screwed than he realizes. Andy Lee is a name and it draws him one step closer to unifying the titles but being an undisputed champion does not sell like people think. It's good to have on your resume but people will continue to question his competition. As your comp goes up, those KO's go down. Ask Thurman and Wilder(the one tough guy Wilder faced, he couldn't knock him out).

 

[Silver Spider]

But wasn't GGG willing to jump in the SMW fire to fight Froch and JCC Jr?

That's true. They were definitely more willing to take on more favorable style match-ups in Froch and JCC Jr. Ward was far more dangerous for GGG to concede the weight advantage to.

 

[Silver Spider]

We agree. Again, I think GGG stops Lara. There is no dispute in my eyes about it. My thing is why not take it? Lara is THE BIGGEST name GGG will have on his resume to date and for a guy on the wrong side of 30, that is a huge deal! If Canelo or Cotto don't fight GGG next(believe me, neither one of them will)then dude is more screwed than he realizes. Andy Lee is a name and it draws him one step closer to unifying the titles but being an undisputed champion does not sell like people think. It's good to have on your resume but people will continue to question his competition. As your comp goes up, those KO's go down. Ask Thurman and Wilder(the one tough guy Wilder faced, he couldn't knock him out).

I've said before, as long as it's not in the way of a Cotto/Canelo match-up, I don't have a problem with GGG taking on Lara.

I don't think Andy Lee is anymore of a name than the guys GGG has fought already. I like Lee, but he's in the same kind of Contender/Title-Holder category as Macklin, Geale and Murray. His appearance on PBC helps him a bit, but even then he was brought in as an opponent for Kid Chocolate.

 

[Docker2.0]

That's true. They were definitely more willing to take on more favorable style match-ups in Froch and JCC Jr. Ward was far more dangerous for GGG to concede the weight advantage to.

That's why I don't get why fans are against this fight happening. Both guys need each other more than they realize. Ward needs it because he wasted his freakin prime in court instead of the ring and GGG's competition will continue to be questioned until he gets a big name in the ring. They both need this fight but I say GGG needs it more because at least Ward can look forward to fighting Kovalev next year where as GGG is not guaranteed a Canelo fight for another 2 years and you never know what may happen.