The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 3

[DarthSkywalker]

Well officially it's Roman Gonzalez P4P #1 now according to Ring Magazine. As of September 15,2015.


http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/pound-for-pound

I wonder how many people know his resume, who he has beaten and how many fights he has had. He is completely deserving. Hope he gets to 44-0 this weekend.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Chocolatito and GGG put on a show tonight.

 

[Silver Spider]

Golovkin beats any middleweight and most super middleweights.
Chocolatito cruises against anyone not named Estrada.

 

[Docker2.0]

Golovkin beats any middleweight and most super middleweights.
Chocolatito cruises against anyone not named Estrada.

I agree about middleweights but that super middleweight comment is a joke. We have no idea how good he is until he steps up his competition. Lemiex is decent but GGG is going to have to start to fight some slick fighters. Don't give me Willie Monroe because dude is literally an ESPN fighter. There are guys in smaller weight classes calling out GGG and he's talking about money like he's Mayweather. GGG has power but not sold on the guy. He has an iron chin and doesn't seem to get effected at all but he gets hit at will. Plus, once you go up in competition, those KO's start to go down. Ask Wilder and Thurman.

 

[Silver Spider]

168 is not as strong as it was a couple yeas ago. Ward and Degale are the biggest threats at the weight. Everyone else is either bad or declining. I'm not someone who thinks GGG is God's gift to boxing, but on eye test alonr you have to acknowledge that he's very high quality. Who is calling out GGG at lower weights besides Lara?
Who has Thurman fough that's better than the guys Golovkin has fought. Golovkin stops Bundu/Guerrero level guys.
I'll give you Wilder and Stiverne though.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm not saying GGG can't compete at 168 but he's only seem to fight guys that stand in front of you. He needs to mix it up. That's all I'm saying. If I was him, I would have taken the Lara challenge. I actually think he stops Lara but his camp seems to think otherwise. And as far as Wilder/Thurman/GGG, they are the same in my eyes. Just saying they haven't really fought anyone special yet and once they do, their KO % will go down. We saw it with Wilder when he fought Stiverne. You see it with Thurman in his last couple of fights. Dude has power but as the comp goes up, the KO's go down. I actually think GGG would beat Degale, Froch, and Groves. Not sure if he could beat Dirrell because they split in the amateurs and I believe Ward would absolutely school GGG. As far as people calling out GGG, Ward has called him out, as well as Lara, Andrade, and Hopkins.

 

[Silver Spider]

Good points. It's not out of the question to think GGG can be very successful at super middleweight. I never said he steam rolls anyone at 168, but I think he would be favored against guys like Abraham, Groves, and the Dirrell brothers. I think on a good day Degale can beat anyone at 168 besides Ward.
Lara is with Haymon who isnt letting his 154/160 fighters anywhere near GGG. Andrade has slowly become irrelevant over the last year. B-Hop called out Floyd like a year ago, he's just promoting himself. There's no way Hopkins can drain down to 160; Lara and Andrade get stopped if they fight GGG.
The Ward fight has been ridiculous jawing on both sides as of now, but it needs to happen eventually.

 

[Docker2.0]

That we can agree re: Ward/GGG. I also think Lara and Andrade gets stopped but there has to be something that GGG camp doesn't like for them to not want the fight. As far as Ward/GGG talking, to me they both look bad. It's like it's the new Mayweather/Paq thing. Everyone who's a Floyd fan is now a Ward fan and it's the same with GGG/Paq. But with both camps talking trash to each other, it would be a shame if they never meet. Though I honestly believe this is all hype and building up for a fight in 2017. I can't remember where I read it but they both were ready to fight each other but HBO stepped in and said let the fight simmer for awhile. All this back and forth between the camps is just building up a fight for down the line. I think the fight will do good numbers now but a year from now, it would do great numbers!

 

[Silver Spider]

Spot on with the May/Pac comparison for Ward/GGG. I hate how fans always end up taking sides. I hope you're right about a fight being in 2017. HBO seems obsessed with "marinating" fights; you'd think they would've learned their lesson after Juanma/Gamboa completely imploded.
I'm not going to pretend I know what the reason is, but I don't feel like the GGG camp considers Lara or Andrade worth pursuing. It's a no win situation. Neither are big names outside of hardcores; if he destroys them they'll just say he beat smaller guys and if he struggles then he struggled with smaller guys.

 

[Doc Samson]

Ward is supposedly (according to Rafael anyway) moving up to 175 to probably face Kovalev. The fact is though, GGG will always be the one he's measured against and vice versa. As good as GGG looks, I still haven't seen him against anyone with true technical and defensive ability.

I think Ward has too many tools for him, he could outbox him or (what I think he would do) engage him on the inside with constant pressure, making GGG fight going backwards, something he's not accustomed to. But as it stands, we'll have more posturing. I just hope nobody has an off night & loses before they eventually meet...

 

[Assassin32]

I loathe the Ward/GGG dyad that fans have erected. Golovkin is an average-sized middleweight; check his thirty-day weigh-in for the Lemieux fight. He will be able to make 160 for the rest of his career with ease, and if we were still in the era of same-day weigh-ins, he might be one of the few fighters who would remain in their current weight class. Andre Ward, on the other hand, won his Olympic gold medal, over a decade ago, as a light heavyweight. That's the same gold medal Evander Holyfield competed for twenty years before him. Ward has been letting the water evaporate out of his body to make 168. He should have fought Kovalev a year ago. That's far and away the most meaningful fight for him.

 

[Silver Spider]

I loathe the Ward/GGG dyad that fans have erected. Golovkin is an average-sized middleweight; check his thirty-day weigh-in for the Lemieux fight. He will be able to make 160 for the rest of his career with ease, and if we were still in the era of same-day weigh-ins, he might be one of the few fighters who would remain in their current weight class. Andre Ward, on the other hand, won his Olympic gold medal, over a decade ago, as a light heavyweight. That's the same gold medal Evander Holyfield competed for twenty years before him. Ward has been letting the water evaporate out of his body to make 168. He should have fought Kovalev a year ago. That's far and away the most meaningful fight for him.

True. The fact that people think that the best super middleweight in the world, who is growing out of his division, is a good fight for GGG shows that he is of high quality.

 

[Docker2.0]

Numbers are coming in for the GGG fight and it's not looking good. I knew that fight should not have been on PPV. Boxing PPV fights are going out of the window unless these guys start to work together. Meaning HBO, PBC and TR. Anyway, GGG is not PPV worthy yet. I think he's good but his division is so weak that sooner rather than later, he's going to have to move up. Whether people want to admit it or not, he and Ward need each other because Cotto has no plans on fighting GGG and Canelo is going to wait 2 years when GGG will be 35. A Ward/GGG fight would do great numbers.

http://fighthype.com/news/article22213.html

 

[Doc Samson]

I loathe the Ward/GGG dyad that fans have erected. Golovkin is an average-sized middleweight; check his thirty-day weigh-in for the Lemieux fight. He will be able to make 160 for the rest of his career with ease, and if we were still in the era of same-day weigh-ins, he might be one of the few fighters who would remain in their current weight class. Andre Ward, on the other hand, won his Olympic gold medal, over a decade ago, as a light heavyweight. That's the same gold medal Evander Holyfield competed for twenty years before him. Ward has been letting the water evaporate out of his body to make 168. He should have fought Kovalev a year ago. That's far and away the most meaningful fight for him.

Well that's public perception for you, which is more or less what I was speaking to anyway. It's not just fans, it's the boxing media who's helped build this momentum too. IMO, I don't think GGG would be able to handle Ward no matter the weight or circumstance, but that's just personal opinion and remains to be seen. The fact though, is that while Kovalev might be the most meaningful fight, he'll likely never be the "name" that GGG is becoming. And if Ward wants to resurrect his career and monetize it to the max, he's going to need some more names & quickly.

He has the flexibility to fight both Kovalev & GGG and I don't see why that shouldn't happen eventually. If people can prognosticate about Floyd, of all people, trying to fight GGG than I don't see the issue with it being the other way around in this case. OR...GGG's camp can stop mentioning Ward altogether and everything will be right with the world...

True. The fact that people think that the best super middleweight in the world, who is growing out of his division, is a good fight for GGG shows that he is of high quality.

Or it just shows that both divisions are rather weak. Said it before, I'll say it again, Ward for all intents and purposes is the new age Bernard Hopkins in regards to style. His fights can be ugly or masterful, the difference Hopkins benefited from was quality opponents to offset himself and create intrigue every step of the way through his career. Ward doesn't have that luxury, so GGG being the closest in terms of name recognition if nothing else, automatically sets this up as a must-happen match.

 

[Silver Spider]

Numbers are coming in for the GGG fight and it's not looking good. I knew that fight should not have been on PPV. Boxing PPV fights are going out of the window unless these guys start to work together. Meaning HBO, PBC and TR. Anyway, GGG is not PPV worthy yet. I think he's good but his division is so weak that sooner rather than later, he's going to have to move up. Whether people want to admit it or not, he and Ward need each other because Cotto has no plans on fighting GGG and Canelo is going to wait 2 years when GGG will be 35. A Ward/GGG fight would do great numbers.

http://fighthype.com/news/article22213.html

For GGG's sake he needs to get his fight with the winner of Cotto/Canelo if he wants to increase his "star power." Unfortunately, Cotto isn't going to want that fight at this point in his career and Oscar is going to keep Canelo away from GGG for as long as possible. Hardcores know Ward is the toughest fight but Cotto and Canelo are the bigger stars who will more likely get Golovkin into the mainstream. I'm not saying it's right, but that's how it always seems to be with middleweights; they wait for the smaller Superstars to come up.
Hagler waited for Duran, Hearns, and Leonard. B-Hop waited for Tito and Oscar.

Or it just shows that both divisions are rather weak. Said it before, I'll say it again, Ward for all intents and purposes is the new age Bernard Hopkins in regards to style. His fights can be ugly or masterful, the difference Hopkins benefited from was quality opponents to offset himself and create intrigue every step of the way through his career. Ward doesn't have that luxury, so GGG being the closest in terms of name recognition if nothing else, automatically sets this up as a must-happen match.

Both divisions are weak. 160 hasn't had a good fighter since Martinez's short run and super middleweight has been deteriorating since the Super Six. I'm just saying GGG gets credit from me for exposing the division in a way Sergio couldn't quite do.

 

[Docker2.0]

Well that's public perception for you, which is more or less what I was speaking to anyway. It's not just fans, it's the boxing media who's helped build this momentum too. IMO, I don't think GGG would be able to handle Ward no matter the weight or circumstance, but that's just personal opinion and remains to be seen. The fact though, is that while Kovalev might be the most meaningful fight, he'll likely never be the "name" that GGG is becoming. And if Ward wants to resurrect his career and monetize it to the max, he's going to need some more names & quickly.

He has the flexibility to fight both Kovalev & GGG and I don't see why that shouldn't happen eventually. If people can prognosticate about Floyd, of all people, trying to fight GGG than I don't see the issue with it being the other way around in this case. OR...GGG's camp can stop mentioning Ward altogether and everything will be right with the world...



Or it just shows that both divisions are rather weak. Said it before, I'll say it again, Ward for all intents and purposes is the new age Bernard Hopkins in regards to style. His fights can be ugly or masterful, the difference Hopkins benefited from was quality opponents to offset himself and create intrigue every step of the way through his career. Ward doesn't have that luxury, so GGG being the closest in terms of name recognition if nothing else, automatically sets this up as a must-happen match.

That's the thing that kills me. Floyd has went up like 5 times and is clearly not a Jr Middleweight but people want him to go up to fight GGG. He wouldn't stand a chance because he'd walk through Floyd's punches. It's like Ward fighting Wlad. He maybe a skilled boxer but there is nothing he can do to him.

For GGG's sake he needs to get his fight with the winner of Cotto/Canelo if he wants to increase his "star power." Unfortunately, Cotto isn't going to want that fight at this point in his career and Oscar is going to keep Canelo away from GGG for as long as possible. Hardcores know Ward is the toughest fight but Cotto and Canelo are the bigger stars who will more likely get Golovkin into the mainstream. I'm not saying it's right, but that's how it always seems to be with middleweights; they wait for the smaller Superstars to come up.
Hagler waited for Duran, Hearns, and Leonard. B-Hop waited for Tito and Oscar.




Both divisions are weak. 160 hasn't had a good fighter since Martinez's short run and super middleweight has been deteriorating since the Super Six. I'm just saying GGG gets credit from me for exposing the division in a way Sergio couldn't quite do.

Middleweight division is weak but Super Middleweight has some names there. It's just that with Ward there, he makes it look so easy beating those guys. Everyone keeps saying GGG/Ward, I'd honestly want to see GGG fight Dirrell again. I also notice that Dirrell is a slick boxer as well. And with him beating GGG in the amateurs, that maybe part of the reason why his camp wants no part of slick fighters. GGG has a short window and he needs to get these big fights now. Cotto is not going to fight him and Canelo's camp is already on record of saying it ain't happening for another couple of years. Believe it or not, GGG does need Ward.

 

[Silver Spider]

I don't think anyone should be forced to move up by the fans; if you can make the weight that's your prerogative. I would never say Floyd has to fight GGG. I didn't think he needed to fight Canelo.
Super middleweight was strong not long ago, but who is there really right now. Ward and Degale are the only top guys IMO. Anthony Dirrell has been a bust and Andre Dirrell has been disappointing since he came back. Groves has been Cobra'd and Badou Jack is just waiting to get KOed again.
Murray and Lemieux were good solid contenders/title holders (I wouldn't say champion) and GGG made it look easy beating them. GGG beat Dirrell in the amateurs as well, so neither had a big advantage over the other back then.

 

[Docker2.0]

There's JCC Jr.(I know he's a slacker but he's a name), Groves is a name though he got beat by Froch twice. The reason why I say GGG should fight Ward ASAP is because of his age. I do think that they both should meet halfway at 164. They actually need each other but I'd say GGG needs Ward more because Ward could fight Kovalev and Stephenson for a big payday while GGG has to fight Canelo for that which I don't see happening any time soon.

 

[Silver Spider]

I lost all respect for JCC Jr. after the first Vera fight and he became irrelevant to me after the Fonfara fight. Like you said Groves lost to Froch twice and couldn't beat Jack which has lowered his stock. You're right about GGG needing to get a big fight soon due to age.
In a perfect world GGG fights Cotto/Canelo winner then fights Ward. Then Ward fights a winner between Kovalev and Stevenson. But boxing never gives us perfect scenarios like that.

 

[Doc Samson]

Not sure I agree about the age part, GGG hasn't been through the wars that cripple most 30-something fighters. He gets hit but I haven't seen him take the barrage of punishment that ages guys overnight, although boxers with those huge amateur careers like he has can deteriorate fast sometimes.

I think he does need to strike while his iron is hot though, because eventually the fans and media will move on to whatever the next thing is, the same uphill climb back to relevancy Ward is up against now.

 

[Silver Spider]

Not sure I agree about the age part, GGG hasn't been through the wars that cripple most 30-something fighters. He gets hit but I haven't seen him take the barrage of punishment that ages guys overnight, although boxers with those huge amateur careers like he has can deteriorate fast sometimes.

I think he does need to strike while his iron is hot though, because eventually the fans and media will move on to whatever the next thing is, the same uphill climb back to relevancy Ward is up against now.

Frequent training camps and 3-4 fights a year starts to get to you after a while though.

If nothing else, like you said, his momentum needs to be taken advantage of. He doesn't want to be like Danny Garcia who squandered the Matthysse win.

 

[Docker2.0]

Not sure I agree about the age part, GGG hasn't been through the wars that cripple most 30-something fighters. He gets hit but I haven't seen him take the barrage of punishment that ages guys overnight, although boxers with those huge amateur careers like he has can deteriorate fast sometimes.

I think he does need to strike while his iron is hot though, because eventually the fans and media will move on to whatever the next thing is, the same uphill climb back to relevancy Ward is up against now.

Yeah but dude has had over 300 amateur fights. Not to mention dude seems to fight 4 times a year not to mention sparring. His defense isn't that good and even though he appears to have a granite chin, we just don't know how he will look 5 years from now. He really does need a big fight and he and Ward need to work this out. It would be good for both guys. Can you imagine a trilogy between these guys? Even though I think Ward would outbox him, I still GGG a puncher's chance.

Frequent training camps and 3-4 fights a year starts to get to you after a while though.

If nothing else, like you said, his momentum needs to be taken advantage of. He doesn't want to be like Danny Garcia who squandered the Matthysse win.

If Canelo or Cotto doesn't fight him next, you are looking at yet another year where he hasn't fought a name which is why I think he should have taken the Lara fight. One thing that GGG does is cut the ring off and I don't think Lara could dance around him to long. I think the one name that was willing to fight him was JCC Jr but I don't think it's a good fight for GGG because I honestly believe that fighting a Cruiserweight is not good for a Middleweight.

 

[Silver Spider]

If Canelo or Cotto doesn't fight him next, you are looking at yet another year where he hasn't fought a name which is why I think he should have taken the Lara fight. One thing that GGG does is cut the ring off and I don't think Lara could dance around him to long. I think the one name that was willing to fight him was JCC Jr but I don't think it's a good fight for GGG because I honestly believe that fighting a Cruiserweight is not good for a Middleweight.

The JCC Jr. almost happened but Junior wouldn't sign the dotted line. He may be a Cruiserweight but he's basically a punching bag and that does not fair well against GGG. Maravilla already showed that you can out class JCC Jr.
To be honest, Lara isn't really a name. He's a good fighter but casuals don't know who he is; that's why Oscar didn't want Canelo fighting him.

 

[Docker2.0]

JCC Jr. did want to fight him but Arum wanted a contract extension. He was not afraid of GGG. I've been on record of saying I think JCC Jr. would actually beat GGG because of his size and weight and due to GGG being hit a lot. And Lara is a bigger name than anyone that GGG has fought thus far. If he were to beat him, he'd give him that name that he sorely lacks.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

JCC Jr. did want to fight him but Arum wanted a contract extension. He was not afraid of GGG. I've been on record of saying I think JCC Jr. would actually beat GGG because of his size and weight and due to GGG being hit a lot. And Lara is a bigger name than anyone that GGG has fought thus far. If he were to beat him, he'd give him that name that he sorely lacks.

GGG is hit a lot when he allows himself to be hit a lot. Did you not watch the fight this weekend? He decided Lemieux was too dangerous to be hit by so he wasn't.

Your reaction to GGG is hilarious.