The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 3

[Docker2.0]

I don't have Manny in my top 10. You are the one that made the ridiculous Haymon comment and mentioned Khan and Garcia deserved to be in the top 10. Also how generous of you to say Manny, a top 30 all time fighter, would beat Danny Garcia in his prime. Shell Manny still has better movement and Garcia struggled to handle Peterson's movement, which wasn't even good.

You are not a GGG fan. You say you are, and then bash him. You do this all the time with plenty of fighters, including Manny.

First off, I never said you were a Manny fan(I don't think I have anyway). What I said was that ESPN's top 10 P4P is all HBO fighters with the exception Rigo. I said at THIS MOMENT, I'd put Danny in my top 10 before I put Manny in it because of his body of work, DG is still undefeated and Manny just losing a lot of steam. There are plenty of fighters out there that I think can beat Manny now. He's not a top 10 P4P fighter RIGHT NOW. And as far as me being a GGG fan, believe what you want to. I do like dude but don't like the hype and passes he constantly gets for fighting cab drivers. There is a HUGE difference between believing the hype and liking a guy. I don't think he's the most feared guy in boxing because there are guys who called him. I also don't see how you can say Wlad fights in a weak division(it is FYI)but say GGG doesn't. The MW division has died since Sergio left. All the fighters seem to be above or below that division. I honestly don't know how they can have GGG at #2 when he's fought no one but have Wlad at #8 when he's dominated his division for years. But like Spider said, P4P polls are clearly subjective but just can't stand the blatant bias that ESPN has for certain fighters.

 

[Silver Spider]

To be fair, middleweight wasn't that strong when Sergio was there. Paul Williams, who was a former welterweight, was his best name; Pavlik was always kind of overrated.
GGG has not fought an elite fighter but to say he's only fought cab drivers is very disingenuous. He's fought solid contenders at 160 and beaten them impressively.
If that's ESPN's list, then that's pretty much a popularity contest; GGG is more relevant in the news so they put him up higher. People have always had trouble placing heavyweights in P4P anyway.

 

[Docker2.0]

To be fair, middleweight wasn't that strong when Sergio was there. Paul Williams, who was a former welterweight, was his best name; Pavlik was always kind of overrated.
GGG has not fought an elite fighter but to say he's only fought cab drivers is very disingenuous. He's fought solid contenders at 160 and beaten them impressively.
If that's ESPN's list, then that's pretty much a popularity contest; GGG is more relevant in the news so they put him up higher. People have always had trouble placing heavyweights in P4P anyway.

You're right, it wasn't but it was stronger then than it is now. I don't think GGG is fighting cab drivers literally, but I don't think he's fought anyone elite yet. David Lemieux and Rubio were C+ fighters IMHO. That's why when people say that him fighting Lara proves nothing, I laugh because it would actually silence a lot of people. When he said Lara doesn't bring any money to the table, the question you have to ask is does Willie Monroe? The guy is 8 years older than Canelo but yet Canelo has a more stellar resume. I get it, HBO is building dude up but something has to be said about how it's being done.

Here's that ESPN bogus list:

Spoiler

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/13924740/roman-gonzalez-hangs-top-spot

 

[Silver Spider]

We agree that GGG hasnt fought anyone elite but I'd say Murray and even Lemieux are at least B-. Lara is still probaby difficult because of the Haymon/HBO divide. I'd be perfectly fine with that fight if it happened, if only to finally silence the people that think GGG can't deal with movement.
Yeah that list is absolutely a popularity contest. Pac and Tim are on the decline and Cotto doesn't deserve to be there unless he can beat Canelo. Honestly, as great as Rigo is, he hasn't really done anything since the Donaire win. It's not his fault but it still matters that he hasn't gotten a good fight in 2 years. Even if you have GGG in the list, I wouldn't put him at 2.

 

[Silver Spider]

Boxing is a "what have you done for me lately" sport. If you do make a P4P list, imo you need to access their last few fights in terms of performance and competition. That's a general statement for any fighter.

 

[Docker2.0]

We agree that GGG hasnt fought anyone elite but I'd say Murray and even Lemieux are at least B-. Lara is still probaby difficult because of the Haymon/HBO divide. I'd be perfectly fine with that fight if it happened, if only to finally silence the people that think GGG can't deal with movement.
Yeah that list is absolutely a popularity contest. Pac and Tim are on the decline and Cotto doesn't deserve to be there unless he can beat Canelo. Honestly, as great as Rigo is, he hasn't really done anything since the Donaire win. It's not his fault but it still matters that he hasn't gotten a good fight in 2 years. Even if you have GGG in the list, I wouldn't put him at 2.

Agree with everything you said. It's good to have a boxing discussion that doesn't end in name calling or something childish because you don't agree with everything someone said. Thanks for keeping this thread alive. I'm a huge boxing fan but sometimes get tired of being labeled things because I see a fighter a certain way but someone else sees it differently. People have different opinions, it doesn't always have to end up in name calling.

PS-C+ and B- are darn near the same thing.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I know a lot of folks want to see GGG v Canelo, but this G brotha should try and go after Ward first. Why hasn't he done that? I don't blame Canelo for wanting a catch weight, but the G camp has ignored Ward for awhile now.

 

[Docker2.0]

I know a lot of folks want to see GGG v Canelo, but this G brotha should try and go after Ward first. Why hasn't he done that? I don't blame Canelo for wanting a catch weight, but the G camp has ignored Ward for awhile now.

I think it's HBO more than either guy. I think they are building this fight for down the line, which I don't understand. Not bashing GGG's age but he really has a short window for his prime. I honestly don't see Cotto fighting him ever or Canelo fighting him for another year. Ward and GGG need each other more than they realize. All this back and forth between these guys in front of the camera is all just posturing and bargaining IMHO. They are the new Floyd/Manny.

 

[Silver Spider]

Agree with everything you said. It's good to have a boxing discussion that doesn't end in name calling or something childish because you don't agree with everything someone said. Thanks for keeping this thread alive. I'm a huge boxing fan but sometimes get tired of being labeled things because I see a fighter a certain way but someone else sees it differently. People have different opinions, it doesn't always have to end up in name calling.

PS-C+ and B- are darn near the same thing.

Thanks. In my original post, I had no intention of starting a GGG debate. Even though we seem to disagree on some points, it's been pretty civil the whole time.

PS I'm a college student, so B- and C+ seem like a world of difference to me.t:

 

[Silver Spider]

Talking about GGG-Ward, neither camp has ignored each other. But neither camp has made a concerted effort to really get the fight done.

 

[Docker2.0]

Talking about GGG-Ward, neither camp has ignored each other. But neither camp has made a concerted effort to really get the fight done.

I actually think both sides have. I will look later to try and find where I saw that it was hbo that stepped in and told them to let the fight simmer for a while.

 

[Doc Samson]

The bottomline is GGG hasn't fought anyone elite yet, and that's just factual. I think it needs to be understood that it's not a critique against him unless he gets in the ring with a bigger name and gets blown out. Right now I believe we all think he's talented, I'm just not making no P4P leaps with the guy at this stage.

Someone like him comes around every now and again, hailing from a different country & dominating a bunch of guys nobody knows from said country. Then they come stateside and beat on some mid-tier guys. Most of the time, once you put a truly talented boxer in front of someone like this, they have trouble. I'm just cautiously optimistic, at the end of the day, if he turns out to be the real deal it does nothing but help the sport. We all want that.

 

[Docker2.0]

The bottomline is GGG hasn't fought anyone elite yet, and that's just factual. I think it needs to be understood that it's not a critique against him unless he gets in the ring with a bigger name and gets blown out. Right now I believe we all think he's talented, I'm just not making no P4P leaps with the guy at this stage.

Someone like him comes around every now and again, hailing from a different country & dominating a bunch of guys nobody knows from said country. Then they come stateside and beat on some mid-tier guys. Most of the time, once you put a truly talented boxer in front of someone like this, they have trouble. I'm just cautiously optimistic, at the end of the day, if he turns out to be the real deal it does nothing but help the sport. We all want that.

Careful now for speaking your opinion(which I agree with FYI). You'd be given a label.

What's up with your hours? You seem to post here like every blood moon.

 

[Silver Spider]

Why is Kovalev-Pascal 2 happening?

 

[Docker2.0]

Why is Kovalev-Pascal 2 happening?

January I believe. I don't know why. The results will be the same. There's a fight this weekend. Just can't remember who it is.

 

[Fallen Angel]

That's a frikin weird move. It's not as if the first fight was close never mind a controversial.

We need Kovalev vs Stevenson by 2017.

 

[Silver Spider]

January I believe. I don't know why. The results will be the same. There's a fight this weekend. Just can't remember who it is.

That's what I'm saying. The rematch was unneeded after the first fight but after the Gonzalez fight, it became pointless.

Jermell Charlo is fighting this weekend and Tony Harrison is in a rebuilding fight. Also Tony Thompson is fighting Malik Scott at some point this week.

That's a frikin weird move. It's not as if the first fight was close never mind a controversial.

We need Kovalev vs Stevenson by 2017.

Exactly.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Oh Yusaf Mack, lol. The pill didn't make him do it, just come out man.

 

[Docker2.0]

Oh Yusaf Mack, lol. The pill didn't make him do it, just come out man.

I didn't want to bring it up but man did he look bad! "Come on man! That's all you got?!" As he getting poked. I don't think anyone would look at him differently because these days if you come out, you get more famous and publicity. I will say that with all the grit and toughness he showed in that video, where was all that in the ring? If his chin was as resilient as his arse, then dude would be undefeated.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Why is Kovalev-Pascal 2 happening?

Because Stevenson is a coward. Kovalev continues to have legit fights, while Stevenson does nothing.

 

[Docker2.0]

I think Stevenson's time has passed. I don't even think of him and Kovalev as a super fight any more. Kovalev has moved on to Ward as he should have.

 

[Iron_Stark]

I didn't want to bring it up but man did he look bad! "Come on man! That's all you got?!" As he getting poked. I don't think anyone would look at him differently because these days if you come out, you get more famous and publicity. I will say that with all the grit and toughness he showed in that video, where was all that in the ring? If his chin was as resilient as his arse, then dude would be undefeated.

Wait. You saw the video?? Dude.

 

[Silver Spider]

I hadn't heard about Mack until I saw you mention it, and after reading the Ring article about it I think I'm okay with not seeing any video related to it.
As for Stevenson, I think he's a great example of how to completely kill your momentum after a big year. He had such a good 2013, but it's been downhill from there.
Kovalev is fighting who he can fight. Light Heavyweight is ridiculously top-heavy.

 

[Docker2.0]

Wait. You saw the video?? Dude.

Hell nah! I follow Boxingscene.com and one of the guys "took one for the team" and watched it and told us about it. He was pretty graphic. No way in hell would I want that in my head. I can honestly say I haven't willingly seen gay pawn. Someone even brought up Mack's Twitter page that has a lot of gay stuff on it. There's no way dude was drugged. Dude is just bi and ashamed. The thing is, dude has a fiancee and like 10 kids. He's exposing her to all kind of diseases. From my understanding, those dudes was hitting him raw.

 

[Doc Samson]

Careful now for speaking your opinion(which I agree with FYI). You'd be given a label.

What's up with your hours? You seem to post here like every blood moon.

Well...you just never know when I'll show up. But I'm always lurking.

Seriously though, yeah, I'm on a s***** shift rotation.

I didn't want to bring it up but man did he look bad! "Come on man! That's all you got?!" As he getting poked. I don't think anyone would look at him differently because these days if you come out, you get more famous and publicity. I will say that with all the grit and toughness he showed in that video, where was all that in the ring? If his chin was as resilient as his arse, then dude would be undefeated.

Oh my!! Lol, yikes!! I'm not even going to touch this one, that's crazy.