The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 4

[Docker2.0]

Wladimir Klitschko has announced his retirement. AJ will now have to face his IBF mandatory Pulev.

Wasn't Pulev recently tested positive for steroids? And AJ should be the face of boxing. He his skill set seems to be growing by each fight he's in. I like Deontay but he has not gotten any better at all. He really needs a new team to help him with defense. Right now, I only give him a puncher's chance with AJ.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Wasn't Pulev recently tested positive for steroids? And AJ should be the face of boxing. He his skill set seems to be growing by each fight he's in. I like Deontay but he has not gotten any better at all. He really needs a new team to help him with defense. Right now, I only give him a puncher's chance with AJ.

I wish Deontay would fight someone with a pulse already. Hard to keep defending the guy.

 

[InCali]

Lomochenko calling out Mikey Garcia for Lightweight next year.

He's probably just responding to RG calling him out. Personally, I think he beats Garcia, but, being the person I am who looks for every advantage, I push Garcia to fight at/make my weight (Yes, I'm a Lomo homer). I think Garcia is good. Very, very good. I also think Lomochenko beats him.

Can't the same thing be said about GGG?


Believe it when I see it. Arum ain't letting this fight happen no time soon. Especially for a guy that left him. Same as Manny vs. Khan. Arum stepped in and stopped that. Won't happen. Fake news.

Maybe there's a resurrection right around the corner? I give that fight happening about the same odds.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Anthony Joshua has been ordered by the WBA to defend his title against Luis Ortiz. IBF has ordered a fight against Kubrat Pulev. One of these organisations will strip him and screw the heavyweight division up. http://bbc.in/2htymNX

 

[STARMAN]

The sanctioning bodies are a joke. They only care about their sanctioning fees.

 

[InCali]

Anthony Joshua has been ordered by the WBA to defend his title against Luis Ortiz. IBF has ordered a fight against Kubrat Pulev. One of these organisations will strip him and screw the heavyweight division up. http://bbc.in/2htymNX

This is one of the things I HATE about boxing. Making the weight limit not the weight limit is another.

There ought to be a single governing body, but it'll never happen because there's too much money to be made by creating all of these "champions". In the earlier days of boxing, being world champ meant more because there weren't 5 of them and super/jr divisions. Henry Armstrong won the "undisputed" featherweight, lightweight, and welterweight titles and defended his welterweight crown almost 20 times. Today he would have been champ in about 8 or 9 different divisions.

I hope Lomachenko runs into a BIG shot tonight. I want to see how he reacts to getting clocked. I want him to win and am almost sure he will, but I'd like to see what kind of a punch he can take.

I have a feeling Marriaga will probably hit Lomo about as much as he hits his opponent when he's shadow boxing (do they even do that anymore?) and Lomo is going to make pretty short work of him. If it goes to a decision, I don't expect him to take more than 2 rounds at the most.

 

[InCali]

All Lomachenko has to do to beat just about anyone is go to the body. What he did to Marriaga in the 7th round ought to be outlawed.

Marriaga should not have been fighting Lomo. He was WAY too small (I didn't realize that until I saw them together in the ring). The only way Lomo loses is IF he steps up a couple of weight classes (and he prolly won't lose even then). If he loses, it will be to a super light/jr welter.

That dude comes at you from so many angles, he's impossible to defend. When he goes to the body, he wins. He gets in SO many body shots because he's so accurate going to the head. That $#!t to the liver and to the mid section hurts like frelling hell. When and if he gets into a Crawford type of fight, he better not try to pull some of the "drop your hands " crap he could afford to pull against Marriaga because no matter how good you are, there are people out there who can take your head off.

The deal is that there isn't anyone below lightweight that has a hot frell in hell of a shot at beating this guy. That, however, doesn't mean he needs to move up. I'd settle in at 135 and let people come to me.

 

[Docker2.0]

Then why not fight Rigo? Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[InCali]

Then why not fight Rigo? Just playing devil's advocate.

I'm quite sure that Lomachenko himself would have no problem climbing into the ring with him. There are, and always have been, ugly politics in boxing. That's the nice way of putting it.

Rigo has a style that might give Lomo some trouble, but he's a pretty small super bantam and Lomo breaks him down. I personally think the Salido fight still sticks in his craw and he wants to knock the living $#!t out of him.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm quite sure that Lomachenko himself would have no problem climbing into the ring with him. There are, and always have been, ugly politics in boxing. That's the nice way of putting it.

Rigo has a style that might give Lomo some trouble, but he's a pretty small super bantam and Lomo breaks him down. I personally think the Salido fight still sticks in his craw and he wants to knock the living $#!t out of him.

Nah sadly I agree. I think Arum hurts Lomo more than helps with keeping him away from certain fighters. I think his size alone would be enough to over power Rigo but I really don't think he has all these advantages people think he does over Garcia. I can see that fight being stopped honestly. But sadly we will never know because Arum won't let him near either of these guys. But Arum is 84 and...............well, I will just stop there.

 

[InCali]

Nah sadly I agree. I think Arum hurts Lomo more than helps with keeping him away from certain fighters. I think his size alone would be enough to over power Rigo but I really don't think he has all these advantages people think he does over Garcia. I can see that fight being stopped honestly. But sadly we will never know because Arum won't let him near either of these guys. But Arum is 84 and...............well, I will just stop there.

Garcia would be a good fight. No one is touching Lomo at 130. At 135? "Maybe", but this guy throws "fast" from so many angles and is so deceptive, I still think he beats Garcia; not easily, but handily. I've been very high on Lomo since the first time I saw him fight. So far, he hasn't disappointed.

 

[Docker2.0]

Garcia would be a good fight. No one is touching Lomo at 130. At 135? "Maybe", but this guy throws "fast" from so many angles and is so deceptive, I still think he beats Garcia; not easily, but handily. I've been very high on Lomo since the first time I saw him fight. So far, he hasn't disappointed.

I am going to say this and I think this is the difference between he and GGG: when GGG first came out, people wasn't really clamoring to fight him, only Ward because they really didn't know what to expect. Now you have guys calling him out now because they have seen him in the ring. Whereas with Lomo, you have guys lining up, calling him out now trying to fight him. They see something that we don't see. We are fans but fighters see the game way better than we do because they are in the ring and it's their profession. There's a reason why you have these guys calling him out like crazy. They see a very beatable fighter. It's not just because he's a money fighter right now because his name isn't that big. They just see a big win on their resume. I always say that HBO knows how to push their stars. And now that Arum has his fighters on ESPN, it will be interesting.

 

[InCali]

I am going to say this and I think this is the difference between he and GGG: when GGG first came out, people wasn't really clamoring to fight him, only Ward because they really didn't know what to expect. Now you have guys calling him out now because they have seen him in the ring. Whereas with Lomo, you have guys lining up, calling him out now trying to fight him. They see something that we don't see. We are fans but fighters see the game way better than we do because they are in the ring and it's their profession. There's a reason why you have these guys calling him out like crazy. They see a very beatable fighter. It's not just because he's a money fighter right now because his name isn't that big. They just see a big win on their resume. I always say that HBO knows how to push their stars. And now that Arum has his fighters on ESPN, it will be interesting.

Canelo better be very, very careful against GGG. I think he can beat him, but he'll have to put everything together. I think Canelo has enough to keep GGG off him, but, man, that dude is dangerous.

I used to box amateur and my father was a professional fighter. One thing I can tell you is that a good boxer has a big ego. You never think you're going to lose. You always KNOW you're better than the guy across the ring from you.

Maybe these guys see a beatable fighter in Lomo, but I sure don't. He doesn't put the fear of god in you like a Tommy Hearns or an Earnie Shavers, but he hits plenty hard and often enough to break you down and he's very hard to hit. Boxers would rather face someone who is difficult to hit than someone who might knock their head into the second row, but it doesn't mean they can beat one.

Hitting a good defensive fighter (and Lomo is great) is a lot harder than it looks. So, sure, people may be lining up to fight him, but beatable in his current weight class?? Nah. Look at the difference in the outcome of Marriaga's last 2 championship fights.

Styles play a big role, but against Valdez, he was reasonably competitive. It looked like a tough fight. Against Lomo? Well, he was completely outclassed.

 

[Doc Samson]

Then why not fight Rigo? Just playing devil's advocate.

I don't think he beats Rigo, which will be reason enough to keep them apart. I don't think it would be easy or anything like that, but Rigo is just one of those guys who are difficult to gauge and measure. By the time you do (assuming you do) he's been outpointing you or about to finish you off...

 

[InCali]

I don't think he beats Rigo, which will be reason enough to keep them apart. I don't think it would be easy or anything like that, but Rigo is just one of those guys who are difficult to gauge and measure. By the time you do (assuming you do) he's been outpointing you...

IIRC, the dispute between them fighting was at which weight. Rigo had his chance to fight Lomachenko, but didn't want to make the jump in weight class. I believe he said he couldn't fight at 130 and wanted Lomachenko to come in at featherweight. I can understand a boxer not wanting to go up in weight. It's a difficult thing to do. So is dropping in weight class.

Lomo is, IMO, too strong for him and has every bit the boxing skills. I've only seen Rigo once and he seems to wait for people to make mistakes. Lomo forces people into making mistakes by coming at you from all kinds of angles with every punch imaginable. It might make for an interesting matchup, but I think Lomo wears him down. He's just not big enough. I think Rigo is just about an unbeatable Bantam and don't think he'd have much trouble at that weight.

 

[Docker2.0]

That's the only reason I give him an edge over Rigo as well: size. Donaire knocked Rigo down(again, another HBO hype job that lost when he faced someone dangerous)and I feel Lomo is more skilled than Donaire. But again, we won't ever know because unless something happens to Arum, he ain't fighting none of these guys no time soon.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Lomo beats Rigo, easily imo. The size and body work would be enough. No weird timing is going to throw off Lomo and the counter punching stuff won't work against someone with Lomo's workrate. They both have the same pedigree and Lomo is bigger, stronger and faster.

 

[InCali]

That's the only reason I give him an edge over Rigo as well: size. Donaire knocked Rigo down(again, another HBO hype job that lost when he faced someone dangerous)and I feel Lomo is more skilled than Donaire. But again, we won't ever know because unless something happens to Arum, he ain't fighting none of these guys no time soon.

Yeah. I've seen crazier stuff than Rigo beating Lomo and Doc could be right, but I think if Rigo's people really wanted Lomo, the fight would have happened at a weight that isn't favorable for him. IMO, that would be stupid; as it would be for Lomo to go down in weight.

Personally, I don't like all of the weight changes. When people outgrow their divisions, then it makes sense. I get that there is money out there, but if I'm "the guy" and am comfortable with my weight, I make people come to me. The lightweight division is, to me, one of the best divisions. Welterweight is pretty awesome too and some of those guys are very strong. You get really good fights in that weight range.

Before all of the super/jr $#!t, it was a LOT harder to switch divisions. Maybe that's why they established them.

Arum is what's (and what has been) wrong with boxing. Every time I see him, I want to take a shower. It doesn't stop, and it didn't begin, with him, but he could certainly be considered the poster child.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Donaire was a hype job?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah. I've seen crazier stuff than Rigo beating Lomo and Doc could be right, but I think if Rigo's people really wanted Lomo, the fight would have happened at a weight that isn't favorable for him. IMO, that would be stupid; as it would be for Lomo to go down in weight.

Personally, I don't like all of the weight changes. When people outgrow their divisions, then it makes sense. I get that there is money out there, but if I'm "the guy" and am comfortable with my weight, I make people come to me. The lightweight division is, to me, one of the best divisions. Welterweight is pretty awesome too and some of those guys are very strong. You get really good fights in that weight range.

Before all of the super/jr $#!t, it was a LOT harder to switch divisions. Maybe that's why they established them.

Arum is what's (and what has been) wrong with boxing. Every time I see him, I want to take a shower. It doesn't stop, and it didn't begin, with him, but he could certainly be considered the poster child.

The problem is people cry when a fighter dominates his division. It isn't good enough to dominate a division, you have to move up. And then when you move up and lose, you are a hype job they knew wasn't that good. And if you don't move up, its because you are scared.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't think he beats Rigo, which will be reason enough to keep them apart. I don't think it would be easy or anything like that, but Rigo is just one of those guys who are difficult to gauge and measure. By the time you do (assuming you do) he's been outpointing you or about to finish you off...

This is the thing I have against Lomo and people can call me a hater all they want but how are you top 10 P4P after like 10 fights and you already have a loss? How do you get a title shot in your FIRST professional fight? I'm sorry but things like this are a red flag to me. Not to mention that who ever Dan Rafael favors in boxing, always has my spider sense tingling.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This is the thing I have against Lomo and people can call me a hater all they want but how are you top 10 P4P after like 10 fights and you already have a loss? How do you get a title shot in your FIRST professional fight? I'm sorry but things like this are a red flag to me. Not to mention that who ever Dan Rafael favors in boxing, always has my spider sense tingling.

People who know a little something about boxing watch him fight and know how good he is. He lost a close decision in his second fight, against a vet who was hitting in the nuts constantly and the ref did not a thing. This same guy won't fight him again for fear of being destroyed.

But hey, you are the guy who thinks Broner had so much talent and was actually going to beat Mikey Garcia. So when you like someone, it sets off my spidey sense as well.

 

[InCali]

This is the thing I have against Lomo and people can call me a hater all they want but how are you top 10 P4P after like 10 fights and you already have a loss? How do you get a title shot in your FIRST professional fight? I'm sorry but things like this are a red flag to me. Not to mention that who ever Dan Rafael favors in boxing, always has my spider sense tingling.

I saw the Salido fight and let me ask you this....How good do you have to be to fight a guy like that in your second fight and not only survive, but be taking it to him at the end of the fight? That stuff just doesn't happen.

I'll be the first to say that Lomo got out of the gates really slow (most people move pretty slow when they are hit where Salido hit him). I'm not going to say Lomo won that fight though I think at least a couple of points could easily have been deducted, but, hey, Lomo lost. He also learned a lesson and sometimes, that's more important. I've said I think that loss really sticks in his craw and, let me be clear, IF Salido ever gets back in the ring with Lomo (who only has 10 pro fights at this point....), he is going to get his @$$ handed to him Hannibal Lecter style.

I've watched his last 3 or 4 fights and this dude is getting downright nasty. If he starts attacking the body, people are going to want to just quit (Note: Marriaga had enough of that $#!t in the 7th round). The thing is that he's so effective going to the head, that maybe he just feels he doesn't need to do all that body work.

Lomo could easily be one of those guys who just stands back and outboxes just about everyone else; and he does that at times, but he is also very aggressive and can overwhelm people with his speed and movement. There aren't a lot of fighters who go inside and out like he does.

Time will tell, but I think this guy is the real deal. I also agree with Darth WRT criticisms boxers get. If you don't do this, you're that. If you do this, you're that other thing. Be comfortable in your own skin (ie weight). There are always people who are going to criticize you no matter what you do. Lomachenko has a very good chance to be listed among the greats.

EDIT: BTW, his title shot was in his second fight. I get your point, but think about mine....this dude fought a world champ in his second pro fight and at the end of the fight, the champ was looking for the door.

 

[Docker2.0]

I saw the Salido fight and let me ask you this....How good do you have to be to fight a guy like that in your second fight and not only survive, but be taking it to him at the end of the fight? That stuff just doesn't happen.

I'll be the first to say that Lomo got out of the gates really slow (most people move pretty slow when they are hit where Salido hit him). I'm not going to say Lomo won that fight though I think at least a couple of points could easily have been deducted, but, hey, Lomo lost. He also learned a lesson and sometimes, that's more important. I've said I think that loss really sticks in his craw and, let me be clear, IF Salido ever gets back in the ring with Lomo (who only has 10 pro fights at this point....), he is going to get his @$$ handed to him Hannibal Lecter style.

I've watched his last 3 or 4 fights and this dude is getting downright nasty. If he starts attacking the body, people are going to want to just quit (Note: Marriaga had enough of that $#!t in the 7th round). The thing is that he's so effective going to the head, that maybe he just feels he doesn't need to do all that body work.

Lomo could easily be one of those guys who just stands back and outboxes just about everyone else; and he does that at times, but he is also very aggressive and can overwhelm people with his speed and movement. There aren't a lot of fighters who go inside and out like he does.

Time will tell, but I think this guy is the real deal. I also agree with Darth WRT criticisms boxers get. If you don't do this, you're that. If you do this, you're that other thing. Be comfortable in your own skin (ie weight). There are always people who are going to criticize you no matter what you do. Lomachenko has a very good chance to be listed among the greats.

EDIT: BTW, his title shot was in his second fight. I get your point, but think about mine....this dude fought a world champ in his second pro fight and at the end of the fight, the champ was looking for the door.

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I agree with you that Lomo has a chance to be great. But who gets a title shot after their second fight? And the hype behind this guy who just started is crazy and I think that's one of the reasons he's criticized so much. If you look at the comments on every sports video on youtube and ESPN of his win, it's the same comment. The push he's getting this early after so little fights is crazy. I think he has the potential to be great but he should not be top P4P this early. If that's the case, then why isn't the case being made for Errol Spence who has just as much talent and potential, is undefeated and actually earned his way to title fights. I also think that's why GGG gets the hate he gets as well. It's the hype and push these guys get for fighting cab drivers and school teachers.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Lomo beats Rigo, easily imo. The size and body work would be enough. No weird timing is going to throw off Lomo and the counter punching stuff won't work against someone with Lomo's workrate. They both have the same pedigree and Lomo is bigger, stronger and faster.

Yeah I agree, I don't understand all this Rigo hype. His last big fight was against Donaire more than 4 years ago, he fights once a year against cans, he's 36 years old, will be 37 when he fights again, and doesn't move up.

Lomo beats him, he's just too big and Rigo moving up in this stage of his career, at that age against Lomo? It would be suicide.