The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 4

[Doc Samson]

Those final 3 blows Ward lands on Kovalev aren't arguable, they are all low blows & below the belt, they were also the shots that ended the fight.

Kovalev was hurt by the right hand & was obviously stunned & wobbled initially, but he was still moving & defending himself intelligently making Ward miss, had he not been hit by those 3 low blows he more than likely would have survived the round as there was only 30 more seconds to go. The low blows were as crucial to the stoppage as the initial right hand.

He was not defending himself, he got hit with at least 6 more punches to the head before he even made it to the ropes, everybody keeps glossing over that. He also said he was tired. His own trainer said he was getting outworked, and lampley, among other analysts sitting right there at ringside, knew Kovalev was on his way out.

And I'm sorry, but I didn't think all those were low, I really don't. I can be wrong about that, I'm not in there taking it, but I'm 100% sure without that straight right, he finishes the round with no problem.

 

[Docker2.0]

He was not defending himself, he got hit with at least 6 more punches to the head before he even made it to the ropes, everybody keeps glossing over that. He also said he was tired. His own trainer said he was getting outworked, and lampley, among other analysts sitting right there at ringside, knew Kovalev was on his way out.

And I'm sorry, but I didn't think all those were low, I really don't. I can be wrong about that, I'm not in there taking it, but I'm 100% sure without that straight right, he finishes the round with no problem.

I think one of them was but I think Kov was complaining and acting so hard on 1-2 of those belt line punches, I think the ref got tired of it. Plus I think one of the commentators(Roy Jones?) said that when your shorts are above the navel, then it kind of blurs the line of low and legal blows.

I find it ironic that Kov first blamed the judges and now is blaming the ref and even his trainer Jackson. Dude should just lose with some dignity.

 

[Iceman]

I hate when big fights end like this.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Pacquiao-Horn to be broadcast live on ESPN.

 

[B]

You can say Ward was winning. I don't agree, but it was also a very close fight with only two super clear rounds imo. One was the 4th for Ward, the other was either the second or third for Kovalev imo. But you don't end a fight like that and just saying, "well Kovalev was on his way out" is not a valid argument in the least.

Agree 100% with the bolded.

As for who was winning by the stoppage, I thought Ward was up by 1, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone for saying Kovalev was up by 1 instead as it felt like a close fight in general IMO.

He was not defending himself, he got hit with at least 6 more punches to the head before he even made it to the ropes, everybody keeps glossing over that. He also said he was tired. His own trainer said he was getting outworked, and lampley, among other analysts sitting right there at ringside, knew Kovalev was on his way out.

How was he not defending himself? After he got tagged with the right, after his initial leg wobble, he still was still moving well enough, blocked & dodged the majority of Ward's following attack. It's not like he was static, against the ropes & eating hard power shots. He was hurt that's for sure, but he was still intelligently reacting to what was happening.

Excusing any potential fouls with the excuse of his was hurt/tired anyway & was on his way out isn't a valid argument or discussion.

And I'm sorry, but I didn't think all those were low, I really don't. I can be wrong about that, I'm not in there taking it, but I'm 100% sure without that straight right, he finishes the round with no problem.

I don't know how much lower they would need to be for you to consider them low.

I hate when big fights end like this.

As do I, it's one of the many reasons I have a love/hate relationship with boxing.

 

[Docker2.0]

Pacquiao-Horn to be broadcast live on ESPN.

LOL! Really?! Arum is suppose to appear on ESPN this morning to talk about the Mayweather/Mcgregor fight. I already know his stance on it already. Boxing would be better off without this promoters and this cold war. It's like the Marvel/DC thing. We may never see Broner face a Bradley or Thurman vs a Pacquiao.

 

[Doc Samson]

How was he not defending himself? After he got tagged with the right, after his initial leg wobble, he still was still moving well enough, blocked & dodged the majority of Ward's following attack. It's not like he was static, against the ropes & eating hard power shots. He was hurt that's for sure, but he was still intelligently reacting to what was happening.

Excusing any potential fouls with the excuse of his was hurt/tired anyway & was on his way out isn't a valid argument or discussion.

He was backing up, he was still getting hit, and then he got cornered. He wasn't defending himself well at all. Again, his own trainer said he wasn't defending himself.

And with all due respect, you don't get to dictate what's valid or not, not for me. Its very valid that after he got caught in his face, he was on wobbly legs the rest of the time, which is how he wound up on the ropes anyway. Most of those body shots were on the belt line, not underneath, and those aren't necessarily low blows. Its questionable, if your belt line is above your navel, it's not low, nobody's junk is that close to their belly button. And again, nobody in the history of boxing getting hurt to the body hasn't tried to say some of the shots were low.

Kovalev was doubled over, it's almost impossible not to be around the belt line at that point. And had he not got rocked, he would've made it through the round. Some that have been involved with the sport a lot longer than you or I recognize that he was ready to quit. And if he wasn't, than it's Weeks issue, not Wards. People are trying to downplay what really happened and it's getting ridiculous.

 

[Iceman]

As do I, it's one of the many reasons I have a love/hate relationship with boxing.

I love the sport when we get a clean fair result without controversy (or excuses) between 2 talented guys who respect each other. Just a shame a lot of these fights don't live up to that.

 

[Docker2.0]

I really think the fight lived up to the hype. I can actually see both sides. Should Kov been given a standing count? Sure. But if Ward would have literally killed him, people would be crying the ref should have stopped it. The ref did what he thought was right, especially in light of the Colon situation where the guy is basically a vegetable right now.

 

[B]

He was backing up, he was still getting hit, and then he got cornered. He wasn't defending himself well at all. Again, his own trainer said he wasn't defending himself.

He was hurt, he'd just had his bell rung by a massive right hand of course he was going to be backing off trying to circle away or tie Ward up in a clinch.

And with all due respect, you don't get to dictate what's valid or not, not for me. Its very valid that after he got caught in his face, he was on wobbly legs the rest of the time, which is how he wound up on the ropes anyway. Most of those body shots were on the belt line, not underneath, and those aren't necessarily low blows. Its questionable, if your belt line is above your navel, it's not low, nobody's junk is that close to their belly button. And again, nobody in the history of boxing getting hurt to the body hasn't tried to say some of the shots were low.

Kovalev was doubled over, it's almost impossible not to be around the belt line at that point. And had he not got rocked, he would've made it through the round. Some that have been involved with the sport a lot longer than you or I recognize that he was ready to quit. And if he wasn't, than it's Weeks issue, not Wards. People are trying to downplay what really happened and it's getting ridiculous.

[YT]cFzrIExfX3c[/YT]

That's the last of the 3 punches that ultimately ended the fight, are you trying to say that's a questionable low shot? I wish I could find a gif or video of all 3 of the final shots from this same angle.

Also just clarify for me, are you saying you feel it's a valid argument & discussion that even if Ward did land 3 low blows at the end, it's fine because Kovalev was hurt, tired & ready to quit anyway?

I love the sport when we get a clean fair result without controversy (or excuses) between 2 talented guys who respect each other. Just a shame a lot of these fights don't live up to that.

There's always controversy in boxing sadly. One of the reasons why MMA has made such a rise the last 10 - 15 years, there seems to be a lot less BS.

 

[Doc Samson]

That's the last of the 3 punches that ultimately ended the fight, are you trying to say that's a questionable low shot? I wish I could find a gif or video of all 3 of the final shots from this same angle.

Also just clarify for me, are you saying you feel it's a valid argument & discussion that even if Ward did land 3 low blows at the end, it's fine because Kovalev was hurt, tired & ready to quit anyway?

That was the closest one to a low blow, and like I said, Kovalev is already doubled over at that point, it would be near impossible not to be around or underneath the belt line. But those other ones in that round, were highly questionable.

To clarify, firstly, I'm saying I don't think all three were low. I think most boxers try to keep their belt line above their navel, so if that's the case, I think it's questionable. It's one of the oldest tactics in boxing, and the taller the guys get, usually the higher the trunks get.

I also believe he was fading before he got rocked. I think if you're already heading that direction, then you get hurt, it's a lot easier to quit. Once again, this isn't just me saying this, his own trainer (a couple of them actually) along with other fighters are saying the same stuff, he wasn't ready or able to dig deep to win.

 

[the last son]

Anyone watching these fights on ESPN?

 

[Doc Samson]

Yeah. Mosley Jr. got some stuff to work on.

 

[Docker2.0]

watching......

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Manny does not look good. Lucky he isn't fighting someone relevant.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Manny lost.

Honestly could see it as a draw. The 117-111 card was BS. But the 115-113 wasn't horrible.

 

[the last son]

Thought Manny looked good. Obviously thought Manny should've won by a few points. Horrible way to end a fight.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Thought Manny looked good. Obviously thought Manny should've won by a few points. Horrible way to end a fight.

In what way did he look good?

 

[the last son]

What way did he look bad? Everyone had him winning.
Clean shots, held horn to a 13% hit rate, dealt with headbutts and dirty play the whole fight. Best him to the point where the ref was about to call the fight in the 9th

 

[Spade]

I saw it as 8-4 in favor of Pacquiao. I was rooting for Horn and he went the distance, but for all the good shots he got in, Pacquiao got in more. Horn needed a knockout punch that never came. The decision besmirches an otherwise entertaining match, and Horn calling out Mayweather right afterwards felt so out of place.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What way did he look bad? Everyone had him winning.
Clean shots, held horn to a 13% hit rate, dealt with headbutts and dirty play the whole fight. Best him to the point where the ref was about to call the fight in the 9th

He was fighting a tough guy. But that was it. The guy had nothing else. He was suppose to be an easy KO and he couldn't even get that. He looked slow, lacked power and was getting caught by a guy who just ducked his head and swung. Then he gassed in the 9th and lost two of the last 3 rounds easily. It was a fun freakshow style fight, but Manny looked like utter crap when compared to legit guys today. Crawford would destroy him.

And that was some BS from the ref. Horn was never close to going down. They wanted that KO for Manny bad and ended up with a loss.

 

[Spade]

Yes, a younger Pacquiao would've been able to knock out Horn. No, that shouldn't be the metric used to determine the outcome of this fight. The match should speak for itself. Pacquiao isn't what he used to be and Horn absorbed some shots that were clearly meant to drop him, but he also missed a lot of opportunities to capitalize on that and got wobbly in the last two rounds.

I don't get why people keep saying Horn should've been an easy win, either. He had a 16-0 undefeated record going into this and walked out on his feet. Could he take it to the greats in their prime? Probably not, but that doesn't make him a pushover.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yes, a younger Pacquiao would've been able to knock out Horn. No, that shouldn't be the metric used to determine the outcome of this fight. The match should speak for itself. Pacquiao isn't what he used to be and Horn absorbed some shots that were clearly meant to drop him, but he also missed a lot of opportunities to capitalize on that and got wobbly in the last two rounds.

I don't get why people keep saying Horn should've been an easy win, either. He had a 16-0 undefeated record going into this and walked out on his feet. Could he take it to the greats in their prime? Probably not, but that doesn't make him a pushover.

I am not talking about who won the fight. I am talking about how bad Manny looked. And he looked awful.

That being said, apparently Horn became the bookies favorite after the first half of the fight. So people betting and watching were thinking he was winning and he clearly won 10 and 12. So, yeah.

Horn is a school teacher, who looked to have little to no skill tonight. Tough, but void of skill. Floyd would have knocked him out the way he was just coming in like that. The legit WWs today would destroy him within 6. He bends his head down, comes in from a mile away and doesn't see shots coming. It was rather embarrassing seeing Manny struggle with him.

 

[TheBat812]

Sure, Manny wasn't classic Manny. But there are 0 ways in which he lost this fight.

 

[Evelisse]