The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - - - Part 12

[A Necessary Evil]

Yeah, in a movie where a science genius can shoot webs and have superhuman strength, I am ok with leaving plausibility behind.

 

[ehh]

People can believe that a spider will pass it's abilities down to a man, give him the ability to shoot webs, jump across rooftops, have spider sense, become super strong, but somehow the costume is what leaves them stumped. That raised webbing just took it too far.

 

[Kargo Warrior]

Go Tobey!

https://www.facebook.com/9gag/videos/10155194779491840/?pnref=story

That poll makes me really happy.

Time has been really kind on Tobey's portrayal in the first two films. Spider-Man 2 has become a staple in the comic book pantheon of greatness.

I feel the low point of Raimi's trilogy was around 2008 after the disappointment of Spider-Man 3 and the success of The Dark Knight. Spidey was too light. He was a wimp. It was cool to hate on him.

But the Amazing Spider-Man series, the gluttony of superhero films, the realization that dark and somber doesn't equal quality and the inability of studios to make films that can stand on their own without the whole universe shtick have all contributed to what i feel has been a big resurgence in popular opinion about the trilogy, in particular Spidey 1 and especially 2.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Time has been kind to SM3, now - while it isn't seen as great or anything, after those last two pieces of trash came out, I feel the consensus is "Well, okay maybe it wasn't that bad...."

 

[NotNickFury]

The dance stuff seems to stick out, but really, I don't think this film is as bad as some make it out to be mostly because it maintains the same tone of the first two films compared to other thirds in superhero films like Blade Trinity, Superman III, X-Men: the Last Stand, or even a third like Batman Forever. The music is still great, Spider-Man's first fight with Sandman is always fun to watch, and Jameson is great as always.

Plus, since Raimi wasn't a fan of Venom and the symbiote in the first place, he probably didn't put as much stock in that compared to Sandman, seeing how Eddie Brock is practically a footnote in the film.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

It's the best third CBM series film excluding Civil War and possibly TDKR. An argument could be made for IM3.

 

[Kargo Warrior]

It's the best third CBM series film excluding Civil War and possibly TDKR. An argument could be made for IM3.

There's really not much to choose from, is it?

Spider-Man 3 was a huge disappointment and it still is, considering what it did to the franchise, both Raimi's version and in general.

Yes, Sony forced Venom but nobody forced Raimi to make Sandman Uncle Ben's killer, nobody forced the amnesia subplot, M.J cheating with Harry, Spidey kissing Gwen in front of everyone, the butler reveal and a dozen other badly written scenes.

Venom took so little screentime, he was the least of the film's problems as far as i'm concerned.

What surprises me the most is how much better the CGI looked in Spider-Man 2 in comparison with the third. I mean sure, the visuals in the second were highly praised and to this day the only superhero film to win the visual effects Oscar, but with a higher budget and three years of technology advancement it's still shocking how bad it is in places. It looks like a video game.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Spider-Man 3 was a huge disappointment and it still is, considering what it did to the franchise, both Raimi's version and in general.

Yes, Sony forced Venom but nobody forced Raimi to make Sandman Uncle Ben's killer, nobody forced the amnesia subplot, M.J cheating with Harry, Spidey kissing Gwen in front of everyone, the butler reveal and a dozen other badly written scenes.

Yeah, Spider-Man 3 was always destined to have something that would have people be like, "Uhh.." and that was always planned to be Sandman being Ben's true killer, ret-conning the original origin story.

Venom took so little screentime, he was the least of the film's problems as far as i'm concerned.

The biggest flaw of the film is there's simply too many cooks. Same can be said for TASM2 but at least in that film, they were all interconnected with themes. It doesn't fix the cracks but it's definitely a lot better than having multiple subplots that have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

You have Harry's story needing to be wrapped, Raimi wanting to challenge Peter and MJ's relationship (which is just facepalm worthy because that's largely what SM2 did) with Gwen Stacy, the introduction of Sandman and having to go back to the origin story, the introduction of the Symbiote and Brock, having it effect Peter and having him lose to create Venom, etc. etc.

What surprises me the most is how much better the CGI looked in Spider-Man 2 in comparison with the third. I mean sure, the visuals in the second were highly praised and to this day the only superhero film to win the visual effects Oscar, but with a higher budget and three years of technology advancement it's still shocking how bad it is in places. It looks like a video game.

Specific instances are Peter and Harry's aerial battle and Peter and Venom free falling.

 

[Kargo Warrior]

The biggest flaw of the film is there's simply too many cooks. Same can be said for TASM2 but at least in that film, they were all interconnected with themes. It doesn't fix the cracks but it's definitely a lot better than having multiple subplots that have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

You have Harry's story needing to be wrapped, Raimi wanting to challenge Peter and MJ's relationship (which is just facepalm worthy because that's largely what SM2 did) with Gwen Stacy, the introduction of Sandman and having to go back to the origin story, the introduction of the Symbiote and Brock, having it effect Peter and having him lose to create Venom, etc. etc.

I can't agree more. They spent the first film establishing why Parker loves her so much, and by the end, MJ understands that she loves him as well. In the second film, they constantly zig-zag between being together and moving on with their life for different reasons. Finally when all hope seems lost, MJ decides to follow her heart and Peter agrees. It's a terrific arc and there's a sense of old fashioned romanticism that you know these two belong together.

And from all of the possible plot points they could have went to, making them act like selfish idiots was probably the worst choice they could have made. There's absolutely no need to disturb the relationship, considering it took 2 entire films to get them together. There's not a single minute in the trilogy where they just love and care for each other. It's always manufactured drama. In the first two it worked because the drama had a destination.

In contrast to the second, by the end of the third you're just wondering why are they even together at this point.

That and Sandman's retcon of Uncle Ben are the two worst plot decisions in the film for me. Venom is underwhelming but we got the origin and the costume more or less right. They could have done a lot better but Venom doesn't devalue the earned affection and responsibility of the previous two films like those two decisions do.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I can't agree more. They spent the first film establishing why Parker loves her so much, and by the end, MJ understands that she loves him as well. In the second film, they constantly zig-zag between being together and moving on with their life for different reasons. Finally when all hope seems lost, MJ decides to follow her heart and Peter agrees. It's a terrific arc and there's a sense of old fashioned romanticism that you know these two belong together.

And from all of the possible plot points they could have went to, making them act like selfish idiots was probably the worst choice they could have made. There's absolutely no need to disturb the relationship, considering it took 2 entire films to get them together. There's not a single minute in the trilogy where they just love and care for each other. It's always manufactured drama. In the first two it worked because the drama had a destination.

In contrast to the second, by the end of the third you're just wondering why are they even together at this point.

That and Sandman's retcon of Uncle Ben are the two worst plot decisions in the film for me. Venom is underwhelming but we got the origin and the costume more or less right. They could have done a lot better but Venom doesn't devalue the earned affection and responsibility of the previous two films like those two decisions do.

You absolutely nailed it.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Spider-Man 3 is by no means a perfect movie, and I'll readily admit it is the worst of the trilogy. I just maintain that people overstate its badness, and that it's really a mediocre-to-good film depending on how big a fan of the character you are.

There are certainly individual bad parts, but the film itself isn't bad IMO.

 

[ehh]

I still think that if you removed the emo Spider-Man bits, especially the two dancing sequences, Spider-Man 3 wouldn't be viewed as a horrible comic book movie. It would just be viewed as not very good. When I ask people why they hate this film, the answer I usually get is, "isn't that the movie where emo Spider-Man dances down the street?!"

Spider-Man 3 isn't really that bad. Despite it's flaws, it manages to be a very entertaining movie as I am never bored while watching it.

==

That being said, I don't understand why they gave Peter Parker emo hair. I understand that they wanted an easier way to show that this Peter Parker is different while using the symbiote. If I were to approach it, I would've just had Peter grow some facial hair. Make him look a bit gruff and older and angrier. More scenes like the Sandman sewer fight would have been shown instead of... dancing down the street. And the story would have really emphasized how much the symbiote changed Peter Parker as a person and make his decision to remove it a bit more meaningful.

 

[Kane52630]

Yeah, I'd rather watch Spider-Man 3 again than the two Amazing Spider-Man movies for sure.

 

[The Joker]

Me too. Those TASM movies are unwatchable, and make me appreciate SM-3 more. What I really got a kick out of was in those leaked Sony emails they showed that even they thought SM-3 was better lol.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

The emo dancing parts aren't the worst parts of that movie lol. They're classic.

 

[Bruce Malone]

The emo dancing parts aren't the worst parts of that movie lol. They're classic.

We differ on the definition of classic...

This gif reminded me that Toby had sort of let himself go physically in this film. He actually looks better now I believe.

The whole main cast seemed sort of tired and out of it in the film.

If only they had maybe taken some more time off between films and then regrouped and had jumped right in to what Raimi wanted for part 4.

Spider-Man 3 could have at least then been closer to The Dark Knight Rises of the series.

 

[Kane52630]

I still love that almost 10 years later we still use the cam version gifs of the movie. lol

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Yeah, I'd rather watch Spider-Man 3 again than the two Amazing Spider-Man movies for sure.

Agreed.

The emo dancing parts aren't the worst parts of that movie lol. They're classic.

lol they always make me laugh. Tobey so funny in them.

 

[ehh]

I don't mean to say they are the worst parts of the movie. But for many people, they often use those scenes of examples as to why the movie is bad.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Me too. Those TASM movies are unwatchable, and make me appreciate SM-3 more. What I really got a kick out of was in those leaked Sony emails they showed that even they thought SM-3 was better lol.

Even AMS 1, which is nowhere near awful, is hard to watch because of cynical it is. Every story beat is calculated to provide some sort of benefit for SONY. There is not a genuine thread in the entire accursed duology.

 

[ehh]

The Amazing $pider-Man

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

There are many things in Spider-Man 3 more deserving of hate than a goofy dance scene that was INTENTIONALLY goofy. I thought it worked fine.

 

[Leenie]

Most of the goofy parts in Spider-Man 3 were intentionally goofy (the humor either worked for you or it didn't; no point in arguing that). The Amazing Spider-Man 2, on the other hand ...

I will say that Dennis Leary's ghost that kept showing up in TASM2 made me laugh harder than any of the jokes in Spider-Man 3. Same goes with the entire Harry and Spider-Man scene ("You're a fraud, Spider-Man! *Tommy Wiseau-esque tantrum*").

There's one scene in Spider-Man 3 that I absolutely hate, and that's when Bernard reveals everything to Harry. It's so obvious that the movie intended to have Gwen be the one who gets captured, and that Mary Jane would be the one to tell Harry everything. Alas, that did not happen, so we got that nonsense.

Spider-Man 3 ranks among one of the most disappointing comic book movies for me. It was a followup to what I STILL consider to be the best comic book movies ever, and I wanted this film to match the quality of them, and it obviously didn't. THAT SAID, though, I don't hate Spider-Man 3 at all (though I understand why there are people who don't like the film). In fact, I like Spider-Man 3; it's just that it should have been up to par with the movies that preceded it. It's a clunky movie with quite a lot of redeeming moments for me, and I think it is FAR from being one of the worst CBMs ... Though I really do believe it makes it onto a lot of "worst" lists because it was such a disappointment for so many people. People were REALLY excited for this movie because the general audiences loved the first two movies so much.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Most of the goofy parts in Spider-Man 3 were intentionally goofy (the humor either worked for you or it didn't; no point in arguing that). The Amazing Spider-Man 2, on the other hand ...

Exactly, lol. You'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Max Dillon is less cringey than emo dance.

I will say that Dennis Leary's ghost that kept showing up in TASM2 made me laugh harder than any of the jokes in Spider-Man 3.

I actually thought that was an effective plot point lol. Especially considering Peter's considerable guilt complex.

Same goes with the entire Harry and Spider-Man scene ("You're a fraud, Spider-Man! *Tommy Wiseau-esque tantrum*").

I thought DeHaan was a good actor and a perfect fit for the Harry role, but so many of his lines were awful--including that one. That did take me out of the movie a bit, I must confess.

There's one scene in Spider-Man 3 that I absolutely hate, and that's when Bernard reveals everything to Harry.

Hands down the worst, most unforgivable part of Spider-Man 3. And that's my point--legitimate story criticisms and structuring concerns get lost amidst freaking dancing jokes. It's impossible (usually) to have an intelligent conversation about the film.

It's so obvious that the movie intended to have Gwen be the one who gets captured, and that Mary Jane would be the one to tell Harry everything. Alas, that did not happen, so we got that nonsense.

If only.

Spider-Man 3 ranks among one of the most disappointing comic book movies for me. It was a followup to what I STILL consider to be the best comic book movies ever, and I wanted this film to match the quality of them, and it obviously didn't.

Without a doubt, still the most disappointing trip to the theater of all time for me. Not the most disappointing film overall (hello, BvS) but the hype I had going in compared to what I got...didn't match up. lol

That said, I've been able to separate my initial disappointment and an actual fair viewing of the movie and say that while it is by no means a great movie, it is by no means a terrible flick either. I love it as a Spider-Man film and appreciate what it is. (I do the same with TASM2, tbh, although that's a much more mixed bag).

THAT SAID, though, I don't hate Spider-Man 3 at all (though I understand why there are people who don't like the film). In fact, I like Spider-Man 3; it's just that it should have been up to par with the movies that preceded it. It's a clunky movie with quite a lot of redeeming moments for me, and I think it is FAR from being one of the worst CBMs ... Though I really do believe it makes it onto a lot of "worst" lists because it was such a disappointment for so many people. People were REALLY excited for this movie because the general audiences loved the first two movies so much.

Sounds like we share very similar opinions on the movie. It was nice and refreshing to have a good conversation about it free of the usual emo meme discussion.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

There are many things in Spider-Man 3 more deserving of hate than a goofy dance scene that was INTENTIONALLY goofy. I thought it worked fine.

"We need a scene to make Peter look like a complete jackass, under the influence of the symbiote."

*We get that*

"WTF, Peter looked like an idiot!!"

That was the point. - Me.