The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - - - Part 12

[A Necessary Evil]

Only for them to try and screw it up, all over again. It's like Sony is stuck in a time paradox, where neither anyone else's wisdom, nor their stupidity will ever escape.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

So ... Sony and Marvel Studios were starting to work together into incorporating Raimi's Spider-Man into the MCU BEFORE Sony decided to do the Amazing(ly terrible) Spider-Man movies?

Would it be weird of me to say that a part of me is still VERY bitter towards Sony? My goodness.

Oh well, I love Tom Holland so far as Spidey. At least I'm not going to ever see Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man near the MCU; thank god.

No, not weird at all. Though I wouldn't say that I am bitter towards Sony they have in fact diminished any and all faith that I have in them as a studio. And as the saying goes, it takes only a moment to ruin a reputation and a lifetime to earn a good one. I don't see my feelings about them changing anytime soon. Their desire to 'build' a Spider-Man universe alongside, but not in collaboration with the MCU just seems...well, it's totally in line with what I expect from them at this point.

Marc Webb was a studio puppet. The TASM movies are a great example of how bad Spidey can get when Sony is totally steering the ship. That's why they had to let Marvel jump in and save the day.

They had such a good thing going...Raimi was in creative control and doing just fine. And despite what you or anyone else thinks about Raimi's intentions for SM3 prior to the Arad takeover, at least it would have been his vision completed. But alas, one way or another we've finally got Spider-Man in the MCU...

 

[Mandon Knight]

If Raimi had been allowed to do as he envisaged on 3, you'd be looking at one of the finest trilogies in cinematic history.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Someone mentioned this in another thread, but it definitely hit the nail on the head as to why I can't get hyped for Spider-Man: Homecoming.

I've seen and done it all before with this franchise. The hype and excitement will never equal or measure up to the days of Raimi/Maguire.

This is the third incarnation of Spidey on the big screen in 15 years and I don't care if Holland is an improvement over Garfield or the character is in the MCU or the fact that Iron Man/Downey Jr is in the movie.

Nothing they do can match the excitement I had at 12 years old for that first big screen version of Spider-Man. Hell, nothing will make me feel the way I did during the final swing in the first film.

The Raimi trilogy just hit at the perfect time and I grew up with it. It's hard to beat that nostalgia.

 

[Lantern Venom]

If Raimi had been allowed to do as he envisaged on 3, you'd be looking at one of the finest trilogies in cinematic history.

It would have been more than just a great trilogy because there was one or two more films on the way. It seems that Sony wanted to mettle even more with part 4 and 5, and Raimi got pushed to his breaking point.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Before part 3 even hit theaters they were already planning 4 and 5 filmed back to back I believe.

The tepid word of mouth for part 3 caused them to downsize to just a part 4 then.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Before part 3 even hit theaters they were already planning 4 and 5 filmed back to back I believe.

The tepid word of mouth for part 3 caused them to downsize to just a part 4 then.

Some outlets were reporting a 6-film plan. It was obvious that the series was building to the Lizard, the wedding of Peter & MJ, and likely the Sinister 6. SM3 left so much in flux, that Sony should have least made it a priority to tie-up loose ends in a 4th film. Would it really have killed them to let Raimi finish what he started?

 

[Bruce Malone]

Some outlets were reporting a 6-film plan. It was obvious that the series was building to the Lizard, the wedding of Peter & MJ, and likely the Sinister 6. SM3 left so much in flux, that Sony should have least made it a priority to tie-up loose ends in a 4th film. Would it really have killed them to let Raimi finish what he started?

It was odd how quick Sony went right to a reboot with the franchise.

It was a couple months I think between Sony announcing part 4 and then back-tracking and going reboot.

It'd almost be like if Nolan suddenly wanted to do The Dark Knight 4 and then WB going nah let's reboot.

 

[henzINNIT]

Sony were doing some shady s***. That reboot was in the works behind the scenes of SM4. It was like Sony were planning for it to fall-through. Raimi was far more polite than I would have been in the situation, because there is no doubt that he walked away from a toxic production.

I will likely always habour some resentment for Sony over that. I had a SM4 teaser poster as a wallpaper, and then it was canned and rebooted in a flash.

That said, I like 3 a lot and think it's a perfectly fine conclusion to a trilogy. I've never felt like there were lingering threads left over. The last shot is nice.

 

[Nardz937]

Sony were doing some shady s***. That reboot was in the works behind the scenes of SM4. It was like Sony were planning for it to fall-through. Raimi was far more polite than I would have been in the situation, because there is no doubt that he walked away from a toxic production.

I will likely always habour some resentment for Sony over that. I had a SM4 teaser poster as a wallpaper, and then it was canned and rebooted in a flash.

That said, I like 3 a lot and think it's a perfectly fine conclusion to a trilogy. I've never felt like there were lingering threads left over. The last shot is nice.

This one? I believe it was an official poster from a Toy Fair.

The snapped webbing was always interesting. I'm unsure if it was ever suppose to mean anything.

 

[Spidey_62]

This one? I believe it was an official poster from a Toy Fair.

The snapped webbing was always interesting. I'm unsure if it was ever suppose to mean anything.

Yeah, I think that was from a licensing event of some sort. It got me so excited because it felt like things were going to finally start happening soon for that movie.

 

[Lantern Venom]

It was odd how quick Sony went right to a reboot with the franchise.

It was a couple months I think between Sony announcing part 4 and then back-tracking and going reboot.

It'd almost be like if Nolan suddenly wanted to do The Dark Knight 4 and then WB going nah let's reboot.

They knew the character was a pop culture icon and they were desperate to keep the studio's name attached to Spider-man by any means necessary. It felt like Connors being the villain in ASM1 was a backhanded way of Sony apologizing for building the Lizard storyline in the Raimi franchise and never giving us the payoff.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I remember when reports came out Raimi wanted Lizard for SM4. They said no, so he said Vulture. Then Sony added in Vultress...then he said he needed one more year to make the best movie he could, and Sony said no.

Next thing we know, Lizard is announced as the villain of TASM, set to be released the year Raimi said he needed to make a great movie. Good job, Sony.

 

[Bruce Malone]

They knew the character was a pop culture icon and they were desperate to keep the studio's name attached to Spider-man by any means necessary. It felt like Connors being the villain in ASM1 was a backhanded way of Sony apologizing for building the Lizard storyline in the Raimi franchise and never giving us the payoff.

They could have done a soft reboot keeping Toby at least and dropping some of the baggage from part 3.

There was talks about Dunst not coming back and frankly after 3 a lot of people were over that relationship in the series.

And based on what we already discussed maybe folded Toby into the MCU at some point.

 

[henzINNIT]

This one? I believe it was an official poster from a Toy Fair.

The snapped webbing was always interesting. I'm unsure if it was ever suppose to mean anything.

That's the one. Sad times.

I remember when reports came out Raimi wanted Lizard for SM4. They said no, so he said Vulture. Then Sony added in Vultress...then he said he needed one more year to make the best movie he could, and Sony said no.

Next thing we know, Lizard is announced as the villain of TASM, set to be released the year Raimi said he needed to make a great movie. Good job, Sony.

Not confirmed, but I've long suspected that Lizard was off the table for SM4 because Sony already had eyes on him for the reboot.

James Vanderbilt wrote a script for SM4 (a script that Raimi didn't like), but was also hired to write two more films in '09. They were known as 5 and 6 at the time, but Vanderbilt was conveniently also a screenwriter for both Amazing Spider-Man films. The reason why the reboot got off the ground so quickly was cause Sony were working on it before SM4 went under. Dick move.

 

[Nardz937]

Disgusting how Raimi was treated by Sony. I'm so happy those ASM movies turned out to be disasters that weren't nearly as successful as the original trilogy. Even better is now seeing them crawl to Marvel to save them with yet another reboot.

Remember when those leaked e-mails came out, I believe it was Amy Pascal who admitted rebooting was a bad idea, she even sent an e-mail to Raimi himself begging him to come back. Aha.

 

[The Joker]

They also said that SM-3 was better than the ASM movies. Those emails were so enlightening.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Such as shame we never got to see Raimi continue and at least make one more. But in a way I am glad he bailed and didn't want to make a studio driven movie.

 

[Lantern Venom]

They could have done a soft reboot keeping Toby at least and dropping some of the baggage from part 3.

There was talks about Dunst not coming back and frankly after 3 a lot of people were over that relationship in the series.

And based on what we already discussed maybe folded Toby into the MCU at some point.

I'm not sure if Tobey would have been agreeable to reprising the role beyond a 5th film, but it certainly would have been nice. Having some established villains to form the Sinister Six would have been advantageous to the MCU at this point as well.

I don't fault Sony for rebooting, but doing it in such a haphazard manner was unacceptable. As time has gone by, I've gotten more annoyed that so much was left on the table. Finishing one story before moving on to another should have been common sense.

 

[The Joker]

Tom Holland just recently said this;

“Well, I love Doc Ock. I think Spider-Man 2 is one of the greatest superhero movies ever made".

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2017...n-tom-holland-wants-to-see-doc-ock-and-venom/

 

[DawnWarrior]

Recently I've been thinking about Sandman in SM3 and how much they messed his story up. It seems to me they wanted to replicate the formula of the other movies, so they gave him this drawn-out backstory with his sick daughter, as well as making him Uncle Ben's real killer to tie the 3rd movie back to the origin, both of which were unnecessary and dragged the movie down. The part with his daughter never even pays off (I guess she's still gonna die). Sandman's not a complicated guy. He doesn't need all this stuff added on to make him more "interesting" especially when he's sharing the movie with two other bad guys.

Here's an example of how they could have approached his character (and yes, a lot of this is right out of SSM): Flint Marko is a run-of-the-mill petty crook. An action scene in the opening shows him getting his ass kicked by Spidey, and we quickly learn that this isn't the first time (Spidey even recognizes him), so the guy's kind of got a grudge. Then he stumbles on to these super-powers (either in an experiment or a random accident like in the film). With this new upgrade, he suddenly realizes he can steal anything with ease, while finally wiping the floor with Spidey to pay him back for the repeated humiliation.

That's it. No tragic family, no Uncle Ben connection. This is all Sandman needed. They could even keep all the same fights. Dropping all the other stuff would have left more precious time for the movie's other myriad subplots and motivations.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Tom Holland just recently said this;



https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2017...n-tom-holland-wants-to-see-doc-ock-and-venom/

I figured you would be POed because he said he wanted Venom, too. t:

And Pascal doesn't consider Norman a "staple" in Spider-man's mythos?

Recently I've been thinking about Sandman in SM3 and how much they messed his story up. It seems to me they wanted to replicate the formula of the other movies, so they gave him this drawn-out backstory with his sick daughter, as well as making him Uncle Ben's real killer to tie the 3rd movie back to the origin, both of which were unnecessary and dragged the movie down. The part with his daughter never even pays off (I guess she's still gonna die). Sandman's not a complicated guy. He doesn't need all this stuff added on to make him more "interesting" especially when he's sharing the movie with two other bad guys.

Here's an example of how they could have approached his character (and yes, a lot of this is right out of SSM): Flint Marko is a run-of-the-mill petty crook. An action scene in the opening shows him getting his ass kicked by Spidey, and we quickly learn that this isn't the first time (Spidey even recognizes him), so the guy's kind of got a grudge. Then he stumbles on to these super-powers (either in an experiment or a random accident like in the film). With this new upgrade, he suddenly realizes he can steal anything with ease, while finally wiping the floor with Spidey to pay him back for the repeated humiliation.

That's it. No tragic family, no Uncle Ben connection. This is all Sandman needed. They could even keep all the same fights. Dropping all the other stuff would have left more precious time for the movie's other myriad subplots and motivations.

I think most people would agree with that assessment. Drop the Uncle Ben killer hunt, the symbiote, Brock, and Gwen aspects and the film would have had more time to explore what ultimately made it good. With the Harry-Peter-MJ stories set up so nicely by the other films, all that was needed was a tight Sandy story that would result in Peter and Harry uniting to stop him. The movie eventually found its footing, but there were several unnecessary speed bumps along the way.

Although I guess we could also count our blessings. At least Spidey didn't stop Sandman in the movie by using a vacuum cleaner like he did in the comics. That wasn't exactly a shining moment in Spidey's print history.

 

[The Joker]

I figured you would be POed because he said he wanted Venom, too.

I like the way he phrased it - he wants to kick the crap out of him. Which is something we all want to do

Also it's not going to happen anyway with Avi Arad holding Venom hostage for his inevitably awful spin off. So we're thankfully Venom free in the MCU franchise for the foreseeable future. I take comfort in that.

 

[Herofan]

And Pascal doesn't consider Norman a "staple" in Spider-man's mythos?

It would be hard to top or be too different from his portrayal in SM aside from being less sympathetic (and a new Dr. Octopus would probably be more interesting in a less-sympathetic version).

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

I dunno, Ultimate Norman Osborn is one of the greatest villains in any Spidey universe IMO and has maybe 1 moment of sympathy throughout the whole run.