The Official Lex Luthor Casting Thread - Part 8

[Kevin Smith]

There's is still a big difference from being of Greek descent than of English or Scottish descent. The difference in skin tones can be EXTREMELY dramatic.

I am of "greek" descent, and I am white, but people have made the assumption that I am mixed before, doesn't make me any less white.

 

[Kevin Smith]

In which case, apparently nobody can play Lex because nobody looks like him.

Noo...the ****ing Rock doesn't look like him! LOL!

I thought Spacey looked great as Luthor. Rosenbaum even works. Bald cap Gene Hackman even passes.

 

[Majik1387]

Doesn't make you any less non-white either.

 

[regwec]

Only if Sue is black.

Huh?

 

[Eddie Dean]

Noo...the ****ing Rock doesn't look like him! LOL!

I thought Spacey looked great as Luthor. Rosenbaum even works. Bald cap Gene Hackman even passes.

Hackman looks absolutely nothing like Luthor besides being white.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Gotta go guys. Its been a great discussion. And Kevin I hope none of us have been too rude. Your the man and you always have great things to say (even though happen to disagree with you this time around). Let none of us affect your decision to speak openly, you always keep the hype forums on its toes!

Hell yeah man. Take it easy. And thanks!

 

[Majik1387]

Huh?

He doesn't understand the concept of adoption.

 

[golfguy22]

Had to come back. Kevin, I never said he wasn't white. All I stated was that I never saw that as a defining characteristic. When I read Superman comics, I never saw him being white as an important part of his character. As for his background, I stand pretty firm on the idea that his background has RARELY been explored. As a result, I concluded that his mysterious background could also extend to being of different race than the default race in comics, white, in a movie.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Huh?

Sue Storm....Johnny Storm's sis. Unless he's adopted....which....why even bother making Fantastic Four.

 

[golfguy22]

Anyways, I really gotta got his time around lol

 

[Lencho01]

I'd take the Rock if you wanted a version of Lex who has set out to prove how humans have "real" muscle and whatnot.

 

[Sawyer]

Sue Storm....Johnny Storm's sis. Unless he's adopted....which....why even bother making Fantastic Four.

Because adoption TOTALLY kills the concept, huh?

 

[DKDetective]

While Kevin Smith's argument isn't doing the position much credit, there are some good reasons to keep Lex white, especially since they seem to be going with the Post-Crisis interpretation (LexCorp references). If Clark/Superman represents the best of America's past and what it "used to be" (small town values, optimism, hardworking, independent), Post-Crysis Lex represents the worst of modern America and the flip side of the aforementioned virtues - selfishness, self-importance, corporate greed and influence, cynicism and the like. In those attributes, the Post-Crisis version of the character is extremely topical and relevant and, to be fair, the imagery of corporate America and white collar crime is white males. If superhero comics are modern popular mythology, then it is largely fair to say that the major character are archetypes.

Making Lex an racial/ethnic minority dillutes the character archetype of the arrogant, white corporate crook that he could represent. Especially if Lex is portrayed as outwardly virtuous and beloved, but inwardly corrupt. Then, it is arguably more interesting if he outwardly appears to be a charismatic, all-American white male type who isn't what he appears when the illegal immigrant/alien character of Kal-El, who is casting aspersions on as foreign and not be trusted, actually is because he was raising by the right people.

 

[shauner111]

Fair enough Kevin, but when I said Hardy was Bane I was talking about how an Englishmen was playing a latino villain.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I'm finding the narrow mindedness a bit depressing. Let me end on a couple of reflections.

Firstly, the cries for actors to look like their characters only works so far, and can lead to logical absurdity.

Exactly. Which is why there should be a very bare minimum or requirements for the characters: they must fit the sex, age, and race, be somewhere between 5 and 6 ft tall, and have the acting chops, and not necessarily in that order.

We have been told that the wrong coloured hair is a big problem and the wrong coloured skin is a disaster. So, why draw the line there?

Well...because that's where the line can be reasonably drawn at. No one's asking for a walking talking comic panel, and thank you for illustrating the absurdity of such specific requirements in your post below:

The actor who next plays The Joker must be 6'4" and as thin as a rake. Bruce Wayne must have a lantern jaw. Wonder Woman must have the figure of Maria Sharapova, and the features of a young Monica Bellucci. Poison Ivy must be an F-cup. I don't think those traits are any more or less "iconic" than the shade of Lex's skin.

No, those are the icing on the cake, little touches people add. Not nearly as broad as someone being white or black. Skin color is easy, it's not hard to find a guy who is black or white to suit a specific character. I'm not complaining that Halle Berry's Storm isn't a D cup and that her hair isn't long enough.

A character's race in addition to their sex and/or age is a very bare minimum requirement for a character and not some absurd specific that's "impossible" to reach.

But, will we necessarily be selecting from an optimum pool of talent?

Secondly, the idea that skin colour is a greater signifier of identity than all other traits together is a view that stopped being acceptable in about 1890.

That's not what I'm not saying at all, lol.

The only 'argument' we've heard for this racial purism is that it just shows the characters how they are. Well, it doesn't. It just resembles the way they are usually inked.

So you'd be okay with a green and purple suited Superman? As his main costume, not some alternate suit. Because he's usually inked red and blue.

Same thing.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Because adoption TOTALLY kills the concept, huh?

Well...not in THAT sense, it's just not the same and there are heavier themes to be explored there when one's adopted. I mean granted they don't HAVE to ever go into them....but if you feel the need to change **** with them that much, WHY would you even want to make a movie about them in the first place? The source material obviously isn't good enough. Again, one of those changes for the sake of changing.

 

[Majik1387]

Because it's not changing so much.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Hackman looks absolutely nothing like Luthor besides being white.

He looked more like Luthor than Denzel Washington.

 

[Lencho01]

While Kevin Smith's argument isn't doing the position much credit, there are some good reasons to keep Lex white, especially since they seem to be going with the Post-Crisis interpretation (LexCorp references). If Clark/Superman represents the best of America's past and what it "used to be" (small town values, optimism, hardworking, independent), Post-Crysis Lex represents the worst of modern America and the flip side of the aforementioned virtues - selfishness, self-importance, corporate greed and influence, cynicism and the like. In those attributes, the Post-Crisis version of the character is extremely topical and relevant and, to be fair, the imagery of corporate America and white collar crime is white males. If superhero comics are modern popular mythology, then it is largely fair to say that the major character are archetypes.

Making Lex an racial/ethnic minority dillutes the character archetype of the arrogant, white corporate crook that he could represent. Especially if Lex is portrayed as outwardly virtuous and beloved, but inwardly corrupt. Then, it is arguably more interesting if he outwardly appears to be a charismatic, all-American white male type who isn't what he appears when the illegal immigrant/alien character of Kal-El, who is casting aspersions on as foreign and not be trusted, actually is because he was raising by the right people.

An older White guy would be a better fit for the stereotypical CEO or at what comes to mind when you think of CEOs of big businesses. That would be "real".

 

[Eddie Dean]

He looked more like Luthor than Denzel Washington.

Nope. Hackman is a little dumpy and not particularly attractive. Denzel has an athletic build and is conventionally handsome. Advantage Denzel.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Had to come back. Kevin, I never said he wasn't white. All I stated was that I never saw that as a defining characteristic. When I read Superman comics, I never saw him being white as an important part of his character. As for his background, I stand pretty firm on the idea that his background has RARELY been explored. As a result, I concluded that his mysterious background could also extend to being of different race than the default race in comics, white, in a movie.

Why can't he be white? Why does this have to be changed?

Besides....if the argument is for more ethnic exposure, wouldn't it be better to have a non white character there in a positive light? Instead of Superman's number one and most hated foe being turned into a black guy.

 

[shauner111]

Just saw an interview with Cavill. The interviewer suggested Jon Hamm for Lex and if Henry could maybe tell Zack about it. He said it was interesting and he may actually pass that onto Zack. It makes sense too because of Hamm's connection to Zack, he's in his 40s, has the looks, the acting ability to pull it off, he's a big name right now in the world of television.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Nope. Hackman is a little dumpy and not particularly attractive. Denzel has an athletic build and is conventionally handsome. Advantage Denzel.

Lex wasn't always a "gorgeous hunk of man meat".

(^^ pay no attention to Kurtwood Smith...lol)

 

[Lencho01]

Just saw an interview with Cavill. The interviewer suggested Jon Hamm for Lex and if Henry could maybe tell Zack about it. He said it was interesting and he may actually pass that onto Zack. It makes sense too because of Hamm's connection to Zack, he's in his 40s, has the looks, the acting ability to pull it off, he's a big name right now in the world of television.

Nah, the real reason it makes sense is...

 

[Kevin Smith]

Fair enough Kevin, but when I said Hardy was Bane I was talking about how an Englishmen was playing a latino villain.

Ahh I gotchya. But even so he had a mask (muzzle? lol) on ya know? lol.