Sequels The Official Mike Dougherty & Dan Harris Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Showtime,

WB reacting the way they are reacting just shows shortsightedness....

They have two visionaries working on their two greatest properties (Nolan and Singer). They know they're track record. Let them handle it. It will work out in the end. Don't do what Sony did to Raimi and what Fox did to Singer. They will regret it in the end...

But, I also think they need to lower their expectations in terms of dollars. Superman, I don't think in this day and age, can muster the same box office as Spider-Man....
 
Fine, SR haters. You all ****in' wins.

:cmad: :cmad: :cmad:

Buggs should be happy for all of this bull****! I'm super pissed.

Hahahahaha...We had to win some time.
Now, it's just about getting rid of Singer.
 
I think Singer should be given the chance to work with another writing team for the sequel.

If he isn't willing to or if he can't.....then he will leave.
 
Showtime,

You also mentioned the actual script a couple pages back. That's the other problem with Superman Returns. Just based on that script alone, Superman Returns was not a summer film. WB should've realized that from the get go and taken a page from the WB Harry Potter play book...put it out during the holidays instead of the summer. The origin film was released at Christmas.

The original script of Superman Returns called for a three hour, epic character film. That's the film we've should've gotten. It was ambitious. But, I understand why they had to cut it down. Again, it was a summer film and summer audiences expect certain things...which is really too bad, considering what we tend to get each summer.....
 
I have to wonder if WB will wait and see how the reaction to their new guy Superman in JLA, and then decide who to go with for another solo movie. I don't think we'll hear anything about Routh or Singer until after JLA is out.
 
JLA movie isn't going to work either. That many super characters on a budget of 150 million? Yeah, not going to happen. It won't work. They'll cut all kinds of corners for it to be just manageable...
 
showtime any word on your script?
 
JLA movie isn't going to work either. That many super characters on a budget of 150 million? Yeah, not going to happen. It won't work. They'll cut all kinds of corners for it to be just manageable...

Well, when you consider Brandon Routh too expensive I think it's clear how these guys are saving money.
 
Showtime,

Why heck can't Superman have one? I mean, how long has the character been around and in love and in a relationship with Lois? You're telling me that the idea of a Super-son didn't cross anyone's mind, EVER?

And about Lex, I don't think using Lex cost the film or the sequel. I still maintain that it's the revelance of the character itself. But again, you have to take into account the long hiatus of the character on screen.

Put it this way, if Singer did a new version of the origin of Superman for today's audiences, who do you think should've been the first villian? Who do you think WB would've gone with regardless?

No matter how you look at it, when you say Superman, you pretty much automatically think Lex and Lois. And because of that hiatus, it made sense to bring back his arch nemesis for Superman's triumphant return to the silver screen. Sure, it's playing it safe but it's playing it smart too.

We've established that. Now, it's time to get down to business and I have full confidence that Singer will and wouldn've done so in the sequel. Again, he did the same with X2 after X-Men. You don't think he'd follow his own example?


The problem with Superman Returns is that it was so tragic, Superman was presented as terribly alone and doomed to remain alone, he was shown making decisions that cost him his happiness and almost cost him his life.

He has a son - but he can't really be with him.

He loves Lois - but he can't really be with her

He had the guidance and wisdom of his father in the Fortress - but he can't do that any more, he has no sanctuary, the Fortress was violated by Lex.

He decides to leave earth to check out the remains of Krypton -- yet Lois somehow doesn't know the amazing news that Krypton's remains have been discovered. She also is carrying his child, yet neither she nor Richard White seem to figure that out. It would be pretty obvious to her and to Richard who's kid it was.

Then Superman comes back from the mission he had to go on... only to find that his love has moved on, his child has a new dad, and Lex is out of prison.

There is nothing uplifting in this story to give any warmth or happiness to the character, there is no 'will he, won't he' with Lois because her life is sorted out, he is once again terribly alone.

It's not a happy experience - for Superman or for the viewer. This was not really a superhero movie, it didn't have the hero factor necessary to make it a good rousing movie that showed acceptance, happiness, solid moral values and a rousing ending. 'I'll be around' isn't enough to end the movie on, not when Lex is still free, Lois is with Richard, his son is with another family, his Fortress has been raided and all the crystals linking him to his father and his origins have been stolen.

All those have to be explored in a sequel. We can't have Richard or Jason conveniently dying or being somehow pushed aside, that's not fair on the characters or the viewer. We have Lex stuck on an island somewhere, knowing the location of the Fortress, we have Superman with no links to his father for guidance, no place to seek solace or wisdom. Yet we have to include Lois, Richard and Jason somehow. We can't just write them off. But where is the hope for Superman, where is the chemistry with Lois that might mean he tells her everything, that might mean they are finally together? We can't have that, because good, upstanding Richard is there and she plainly deserves the stability of that relationship.

SR may have made a nice character drama, an interesting study of tragic love and loss, but it didn't feel right to put Superman into that setting. It was like a crazy 'what if' story. Including Richard and Jason was probably a mistake, and showing Superman abandoning Lois in that fashion was also a mistake.

It's pretty obvious that a sequel based on SR is difficult because of having to include those elements and try to take them forward. No doubt Warner, Harris and Dougherty struggled to agree on a direction for the next movie that wasn't bogged down by these various plot points from the first movie.
 
Okay, that's just one character. Add another 8 or 9 characters into the mix, all with superpowers and see if the a live action JLA film can work in a 150 million dollar budget.

Hell, it might not even work in a 200 million dollar film.

Michael Bay barely got a Transformers film to work on 145 million and he cut some serious corners to make that film as enjoyable as it was.
 
I agree. I think this is the beginning of the end for the Superman Returns crew. I dont think Bryan Singer will direct the sequel.
 
X,

Sacrificing yourself to save the world at the end of the film isn't hopeful? Isn't inspiring?

Superman doesn't need guidance from his father any longer. That loop is closed now with the addition of Jason. His allegiances isn't to Krypton any longer. It's to Earth now, for more reasons than one. That was the whole point of the film. The yearning to belong, to feel accepted, to feel apart of is now cemented with the addition of his son who is Kryptonian and Earth bound.

I don't know. I guess that just struck me very hard at the end, if you use Donner's film as the beginning. It just got me...
 
when it feels like you've seen it all before... it's not that inspiring.
 
kararot,

That's a pretty uninspiring response. In this day and age of cinema, nobody is doing anything remotely original. You may get one or two a year. But with these genres, forget it.

We might get original beats. But, the whole won't be original. Just look at how Raimi copied the first three Superman films with this Spider-Man Trilogy.
 
That's a pretty uninspiring response. In this day and age of cinema, nobody is doing anything remotely original. You may get one or two a year. But with these genres, forget it.

That is your justification? Other movies do it?
 
kakarot,

We might get original beats. But, the whole won't be original. Just look at how Raimi copied the first three Superman films with this Spider-Man Trilogy.
the reason that franchise did so well was because it was desperately needed at the time.
 
Showtime,

Am I lying? Not saying it's right but am I lying about that aspect of it?
 
Showtime,

Am I lying? Not saying it's right but am I lying about that aspect of it?

Not all movies are reorigins, rehashes, or sequels. Some of the best movies are original ideas. You are using it to justify though.
 
kararot,

And that's the only reason I personally feel it worked. I love Spider-Man 2 but if a new Superman film would've came out at the time that the first Spider-Man film came out, do you really think we'd be having this argument right now?

Timing is everything. Look at Star Wars. Look at Spider-Man.
 
X,

Sacrificing yourself to save the world at the end of the film isn't hopeful? Isn't inspiring?

Superman doesn't need guidance from his father any longer. That loop is closed now with the addition of Jason. His allegiances isn't to Krypton any longer. It's to Earth now, for more reasons than one. That was the whole point of the film. The yearning to belong, to feel accepted, to feel apart of is now cemented with the addition of his son who is Kryptonian and Earth bound.

I don't know. I guess that just struck me very hard at the end, if you use Donner's film as the beginning. It just got me...

But he's not with his son or with Lois so, in the absence of any Kryptonian connections, he has nothing at all. Lois and Jason are happy with Richard in a normal human relationship. What does Superman have? Nothing! A son he can't be with, a love he can't be with, a father he can't speak to.... It's all so bleak!
 
kakarot,

And that's the only reason I personally feel it worked. I love Spider-Man 2 but if a new Superman film would've came out at the time that the first Spider-Man film came out, do you really think we'd be having this argument right now?

Timing is everything. Look at Star Wars. Look at Spider-Man.
we really can't say that right now, because we don't know... what we do know is that SR underperformed at the box office because it wasn't what people were expecting.
 
Showtime,

I am not. Of course, some of the best films are original ideas but even within those films, you can probably find a film that's quite similar to it.

It's just the way it is now a days when it comes to cinema. Again, you may get one or two great original films in this day and age. It's just plain difficult to come up with something original while making it familiar to audiences.

And with how audiences are today, they don't flock to original films. Case in point, The Fountain from last year.....Brilliant piece of work, nobody saw it.
 
It only underperformed because of budget, which everyone needs to be blamed.

391 million worldwide is a nice chunk of change but again, I feel there are alot of factors with that number. A number of you will say it's the film itself and I'm not going to argue that because it's a dead end. But, I still think the character is ultimately the problem in this age.

Just a gut feeling I have about it....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
202,286
Messages
22,079,295
Members
45,880
Latest member
Heartbeat
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"