The Official Punisher by Rick Remender / Punisher MAX thread

[cthulhu]

Actually this is correct - got my magnifying glass out myself and Crimson Mist you are right on the money. I thought it would be revealed later in the series but yes this is readable. Interesting revelation but Im guessing that Frank did this to protect his family from his dark side. Anyhow would have liked bullseye to have been more clearly killed as I guess that he will come back again later on. Anyhow entertaining enough issue personally I wish it wasnt Dillons art as Ive seen too much of his art on the Punisher but it does tell a story well so mustn't grumble.


Anyhow onto the immenent news of the 616 punisher relaunch: my money is still on Brubaker but been hearing of Ennis returning to Marvel soon, I wonder if he fancies a third crack at everyones favorite skull chested vigilante?

 

[The Morningstar]

I like the ambiguity.

I've always felt that there was more to Frank than a cliche revenge mission to clean up the streets. I've always thought he had PTSD since he returned from Nam. He was one of those guys who would come back to the world and not know what to do with himself, not know how to readjust. I mean, it was clearly stated in Ennis' Born that he was addicted to killing, he served numerous tours in Nam. Why would a guy who wants to spend the rest of his life with his family keep going back to a hell hole like Vietnam?

What i'm saying is, I think whilst he was absolutely heart broken about his families death, at the same time he was kinda relieved. Because then it would allow him to carry on being what he is... a killing machine. He is addicted to killing. He enjoys killing. No doubt about it. His families death gives him an excuse to carry on being what he is. And he knows it.

For me it adds a layer of depth to what at first glance is an incredibly shallow, one dimensional character.

 

[cthulhu]

Hmm I wouldn't say that Frank enjoys killing - I think its more primal than that. I think its more like he's compelled to do so like breathing or eating or sleeping, its something he does and as he's been killing for so long its simply become habit. I think the death of his family gave Frank the freedom to become this killing machine we have today and as you say he could have been relieved. The terror of what could happen to ones family is so dabilitating that people are willing to make all sorts of compomising decisions. After his famlies death he no longer had to compromise he kills the guilty simply because its what he has decised to do. No introspection. No guilt. No Pleasure. Just function.

Or more like when they died it condemed him to the 'life' as the Punisher. They were the only real light in his life and after their murder he had nothing to keep the dark side at bay. He doesnt want redemption just to destroy the type of people who commit similar attrocities on other families. No I don't think he enjoys killing its just somehting he does (which is something of a faux pas by normal standards in society)

This is why I like the film Death Sentence with Kevin Bacon, I kinda look at this as a what if not all the Punishers family had been killed in the park. The consequences of the revenge in the movie is tragic.

 

[chamber-music]

I think The Punishers need to 'punish criminals' is the result of him having some sort of obsessive personality disorder.

Also like Rorschach from Watchmen Franks seen the worst humanity has to offer, his seen the human races ugly side be it in war or in criminals he comes into contact with and that has left him with a black and white violent ruthless view of the world.

Dillons Bullseye reminds me of Woody Harrelson possibly because they are both weird and crazy and possibly because I watched Zombiealnd not too long ago.

 

[The Morningstar]

Good points both of you guys. The mere fact that it is causing a discussion about what makes Frank tick is a testament to Aaron's and Ennis' writing.

And yes I can see Woody Harrelson in Bullseye too. More Mickey Knox from Natural Born Killers rather than Tallahasee though.

 

[fat freddys cat]

My thoughts on what makes Frank tick, is simply, that it is the guilt that he could not protect his family that day in the park, and does not want it happening to others, and the way to do this is use his training from being a marine .

But this is a very MU 616 Punisher view now that I think about it , the difference with MAX is Death tricking Frank and actually getting Frank 'hooked' on war, by killing Franks Family,

So I think Frank wanting too divorce, is him trying too save his family in some unconscious way or maybe knowing that a family life was not for him.

I really do think Frank wanting or even being fully aware of his Familys impending death, just spoils the character, and takes away from the core appeal, yes he has guilt for not protecting them of course , and does not want the same to happen to others,

If Frank was just addicted to killing, he would be killing anything and everything by now..

That's the great thing for me about his character ( that of course in real world would be quite different, and would shoot anything and everthing) is that Frank knows where to draw the line, even though he does not follow societies laws.

 

[Shockdingo]

Agreed, I don't like the idea that he was even a little familiar with the impending death and I always liked that he didn't kill for the sake of killing; if he did that it'd be 'easier' since the scum bags he goes after require punishing (hah) levels of preperation, strategy and such. I mean you could look and say that while in this dark state he still has that sense of morality, but he doesn't just focus on easy pickings in the criminal underworld. If he wanted to just get a kill fix, he'd only go after low level gangsters, or maybe even merc it up in another nation, but no, Frank pushes himself to get some of the most horrific and nasty monsters the world has ever seen.

I like character tweaking, but when the Max version was starting to teeter toward this idea of "well he did love his family, but there weren't THAT important; dude JUST likes to kill" and "Frank knew something was going down so he let it" I got uneasy.

 

[cthulhu]

Hey folks only 3 more days until the new punisher team is revealed in the meantime heres a teaser image - looks cool t:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=31316

 

[Drz]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/03/16/mark-waid-and-paolo-rivera-to-relaunch-daredevil-in-july/

Bleeding Cool is reporting that Greg Rucka and Marco Checchetto are the new creative team for Punisher while Mark Waid and Paolo Rivera take on Daredevil.

 

[CrimsonMist]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/03/16/mark-waid-and-paolo-rivera-to-relaunch-daredevil-in-july/

Bleeding Cool is reporting that Greg Rucka and Marco Checchetto are the new creative team for Punisher while Mark Waid and Paolo Rivera take on Daredevil.

HA! Cool. Not what I was expecting, but I'd take these guys on the title. Rucka is a great writer who really understands the characters he's writing, and his character development is fantastic. I don't really like the artist though. But whatever.

and Mark Waid and Paolo Rivera are a great team. Rivera's artwork is amazing, and Waid is another guy who understands character and development.

I'm sold on both. Here's hoping these guys don't get interrupted by events and cross-overs. It's one reason why Rucka left DC.

 

[runawayboulder]

I haven't read a lot by Rucka but I have heard good things about his Batman work. I'll give him a shot. Problem is as long as MAX is on shelves, to me it's the premier Punisher title.

 

[Drz]

It's one reason why Rucka left DC.

Exactly and it's even worse in Marvel! But it seems Moon Knight, Daredevil and Punisher are all going to be independent stuff.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Exactly and it's even worse in Marvel! But it seems Moon Knight, Daredevil and Punisher are all going to be independent stuff.

It is pretty bad in Marvel, but aside from the crap with Civil War, The Punisher is usually a stand-alone character. That should be maintained. I imagine it will be, since Rucka is onboard. If it's independent, i'm looking forward to a nice, long and healthy run from Rucka.

 

[kguillou]

I just finished reading the classic 1986 Punisher mini series "Circle of Blood" and wow...i was shocked at how differently Frank is portrayed in that series compared to now. Back then Frank was much more compassionate and merciful and much more introspective. During much of the story Frank was contemplating on if what he was doing was wrong and if the violence he was committing was just creating more violence. Again i was so shocked as to how different the Punisher was because now, thanks to Ennis, the Punisher is a bloodthirty, merciless, killing machine. I really really hope Greg Rucka reverts Frank back to his 1986 status as it makes him an infinitely more interesting character.

 

[fat freddys cat]

Agreed

Kquilou have you read the Semi sequal graphic novel Return To Big Nothing ? It's by the same team , very dark but great story.....

It's actually even better I thought, than Circle of Blood, which itself is brilliant...

 

[runawayboulder]

Now I have to re-read Circle of Blood

 

[runawayboulder]

Now I have to re-read Circle of Blood

 

[hippie_hunter]

If Rucka is indeed taking over the Punisher character, I have a lot of faith that he is capable of giving Frank's character a much needed revitalizing.

 

[Drz]

If Rucka is indeed taking over the Punisher character, I have a lot of faith that he is capable of giving Frank's character a much needed revitalizing.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=31329

 

[hippie_hunter]

This is a must buy for me now.

 

[Drz]

Seconded!

 

[runawayboulder]

That looks SICK! LONG LIVE FRANK CASTLE!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Shockdingo]

Must...buy...now...*sees that it's still March*

NaooooooooOOOOOOOooooooo/Vader


In all seriousness, it looks like Rucka has a fantastic grasp on the character. He seems to know Frank well and he's got his priorities straight; flat out he's avoiding the "Punisher is psychotic" angle, so that's a major plus for me. The art direction looks fantastic. I don't know what it is, but I rather like this rendition of the Punsher. Good to see the "street clothes" look again (though I think he may also have the costume. In the promotional images with DD and Moon Knight he had it. Love both looks so I'm fine with it.) I'm also liking the bandages on his arms and face; it adds a rather cool gritty look to him.

Also, I like how they've given thought on how they should carefully construct a rogues gallery instead of having him just fighting mobsters or gangbangers. We may get some really memorable baddies like in the Ennis Era.
I think we're in good hands guys.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Great news! Despite my initial hesitation with the artist, those two images have me sold. Rucka seems to really grasp the character and I think his take on the character, in that he isn't psychotic, will really let new or hesitant readers finally see that Frank Castle isn't a gratuitous, senseless killing machine, but something much more.

My only problem? We gotta wait until August. It was supposed to come out in June. Boo!

 

[fat freddys cat]

I think the white boots white gloved custume is gone ! Rucka says he wants to make a change from the recent stories no side kicks, no first person narration, (thought boxs) keeping Frank more like soldier