The Official Punisher by Rick Remender / Punisher MAX thread

[ObakeTora]

I'm hoping the Remender run ends really soon. I don't like the idea of resurrecting Maria, and all the fun buddy buddy moments I remember with Frank and Microchip, I hate seeing Microchip all buddy buddy with Stuart and Henry. He's Microchip, Robin to Punisher's Batman. He was there when Dr. Doom attacked Frank...

 

[cthulhu]

It will only 3 more issues to go t: sad as I was looking forward to him coming to the character but like fraction before him the whole thing was mishandled. However as Axel Alonso is now EIC will Ennis return to marvel and hopefully the Punisher?

 

[ObakeTora]

So you think there is a chance Ennis will return to the Punisher?!!!! I really want to see his take on Batman vs Punisher....


Your **ing Robin!!!!!

 

[runawayboulder]

Ennis did enough Punisher to last a lifetime. I'd rather see him tackle another Marvel character like DD and give someone else a crack at the Punisher like Brian Azzarello.

 

[PaleRider]

I am glad I'm not the only one upset over this In the Blood mini. This stuff with Maria has got me fuming.

 

[cthulhu]

Yeah - I do think that Ennis will return to the Punisher, I have nothing to back me up on that just Ennis has an interest in this type of story and character, as can be shown by the premise of Jennifer Blood about to start by him about a female punisher. He also described the Punisher as the character he was born to write before. If he never returns I cannot complain as he was the quintessential Punisher scribe IMHO but yep I think he will return at some stage. It'll be like the second coming if he does...

Yeah the whole in the blood thing sucks but it'll be over soon and then it can be forgotton about. More interesting is the post Remender 616 direction who will do that?

 

[fat freddys cat]

Least let's not forget,

It was Chuck Dixon that had Micro go 'Bad' back in the ninetys, and killed Micro of.

Remenders story is just a progression of this, yes I agree the whole Maria aspect of this tale is off beat,

But if it actually turns out too be Maria , and not something else that was brought back by the Hood, I will be suprised.....

What, In The Blood, is doing, is taking Dixons , Fractions, and of course Remenders storylines and working it all towards it's bloody end....

For instance issue 1 touched quite a bit on the Dixon days, and the whole idea of a rouges gallery coming together too take the Punisher down is a neat idea , considering The Punisher killis his foes.

As for who to write the Punisher next ?

I think it's Andy Diggle.

 

[cthulhu]

Yeah Diggle is the rumour - Ive only read Shadowland by him which was mehtastic imho what would you recommend by him?

Well I thought Dixons run had a fairly clear end with Countdown - I think that the references to older works are tacked on to make it seem weightier. There were none of these references in the previous 616 runs (PWJ then Punisher). Ah well it'll be over soon then I can file it with mob punisher, zombisher and fractions PWJ.

 

[fat freddys cat]

Yeah Diggle is the rumour - Ive only read Shadowland by him which was mehtastic imho what would you recommend by him?

By Diggle ?

Losers , which , the movie is good as it is, is nothing on how great the comic is. Great art by Jock . All in trade format

Green Arrow , Year One , real fav this of mine , art by Jock too.

Oh , and he wrote the one shot Punisher story Silent Night.

Well I thought Dixons run had a fairly clear end with Countdown - I think that the references to older works are tacked on to make it seem weightier. There were none of these references in the previous 616 runs (PWJ then Punisher). Ah well it'll be over soon then I can file it with mob punisher, zombisher and fractions PWJ.

Well no.... It's been argued before that Countdown, did not end Dixons run, why did Dixon then tie up some of his loose ends in his Marvel Knights team book for the Punisher ?

Like Micky the mob informer ? His story is tied up,in the MK team book, which I always thought was a sly move by Dixon, concidering Ennis had his own Punisher run going at the same time , with Welcome back Frank.

Plus I would hardly say Micros back story is 'tacked on' in the First Issue of in the Blood, it's mentioned that Micro tried to replace Frank Castle with a new Punisher before, and it lead indirectly to Micros death in the 616 universe .


But Really? if I could pick a writer to write the Punisher ?

Mark Millar did a great job on the ultimate Punisher, let him him have a go.

 

[cthulhu]

I thought Mickeys story was finally resolved with the Punisher/Painkiller Jane crossover with Jane killing him after he betrayed Frank.

With regard to micro, it just seems that the whole thing has been badly handled: basically the first two arcs were about setting up a rogues gallery right? then remender threw a curveball and killed the character reanimating him as a frankensteins monster pretty much ignoring the rogues gallery. Sales tanked for Frankencastle forcing Marvel to cancel the title leaving remender to rematch with daken and heal the Punisher in the three issues. Then we get the in the blood mini to tie up all the loose ends. Perhaps if there was more time to come to the natural ending it would be better but the whole thing seems rushed to complete it in the remaining issues. Also the 'character development' seems completely shallow and perfunctory. Its difficult not to feel there is an attempt to put Frank (and the readers) though the wringer as much as possible before remender leaves the title. The whole Maria thing is not really on (you checked the preview of issue 3?) WTF!?!?!

While Miller did a good job on ultimate Punisher I cant see him coming to 616 Punisher. I am looking forward to his Ultimate avengers vs new ultimates where the punisher seems to be pretty prominant.

 

[CrimsonMist]

While Miller did a good job on ultimate Punisher I cant see him coming to 616 Punisher. I am looking forward to his Ultimate avengers vs new ultimates where the punisher seems to be pretty prominant.

I thought Millar did a pretty piss-poor attempt writing Frank in Civil War(one of the least of that book's problems). That moment when Frank kills those two villains who wanted to switch sides was incredibly bad. That said, if Millar were to write the 616 Punisher anyway, I wouldn't buy it.

Though a pipe-dream, I think it would be awesome if Brubaker wrote the character. His blending of comic book and crime stories are perfect for the character, I think.

 

[cthulhu]

Agreed Brubaker would write a good Punisher I think. His portrayal of Frank when he busted Daredevil out of prison was very good and I always wanted to see more of that...

 

[fat freddys cat]

I thought Mickeys story was finally resolved with the Punisher/Painkiller Jane crossover with Jane killing him after he betrayed Frank.

No not the same Mickey, I used too think that, but it was pointed out too me that it was indeed a different Mick.

 

[cthulhu]

No not the same Mickey, I used too think that, but it was pointed out too me that it was indeed a different Mick.

Actually looked this up last night and yes it does look like it might be a different Mick. Ennis kinda plays it ambiguous but the character is called Mick as opposed to Mickey so I guess it is a different character (or not )

With regards to Dixon tying up his loose ends: well I think thats only logical. He has a history with the character and uses this in his new story, would be suprised if there was no reference to prior history. He was a great punisher writer, my personal fav pre Ennis and I would like him to come back to the 616 version as his Punisher in the Marvel Knights series was very cool and exactly how the Punisher should be, ruthless, relentless and deadly.
Its such a shame remender and fraction were so rubbish, but it seems Im not the only one to hold this opinion as the sales for issue two of in the blood was under 17K which is very poor concidering what it was at the start of remenders run. I just hope the last two 616 run's havent done too much damage to the character's commercial viability. Hope it all gets retconned or forgotton about quickly as I expect it will.
Well at least Max starts again in a couple of weeks, I still think the whole delay in Max was a marketing move so it would still be running after remender's run finishes.

 

[fat freddys cat]

Me ? I would to see like too see Dixon back, or at least do a limted series.

Worries me as Pun fans we don't have an ongoing comic of the 616 MU Punisher, we need an A list writer ,

Brubaker has wrote the Punisher before when Frank appeared in Daredevil, and for me Brubaker had quite a fresh take on the Punisher having him actually work with DD not against him.

Brubaker could actually get the title selling like Millar could,

The Punisher needs an A List writer to get him selling again.

 

[cthulhu]

In the Blood #3. only two more to go, what other horrors can remender drag the character through? Sure fracture his skull, yeah people can keep on fighting after that. Shock him through the floor through boots why not. Jigsaw is shagging Maria, Franks dead wife YEAH! Tell you what why dosent remender get jigsaw to chop Frank into bits like daken did. yeah thats the kind of Punisher story I like to read. Hey why dont we have a pulp fiction gimp scene with Frank too. Yeah thats what I call character development. Yeah. How is this merde going to end?

 

[CrimsonMist]

In the Blood #3. only two more to go, what other horrors can remender drag the character through? Sure fracture his skull, yeah people can keep on fighting after that. Shock him through the floor through boots why not. Jigsaw is shagging Maria, Franks dead wife YEAH! Tell you what why dosent remender get jigsaw to chop Frank into bits like daken did. yeah thats the kind of Punisher story I like to read. Hey why dont we have a pulp fiction gimp scene with Frank too. Yeah thats what I call character development. Yeah. How is this merde going to end?

Stopped reading In The Blood after the first issue, because I just knew that woman was going to be Maria. I've kept up with the reviews and previews though. With the way it's going, I imagine there will be be some sort of cheesy dramatic build-up in which Frank has to kill Maria. I think the real Frank would have recognized from the get go that while it was Maria in physical form, it isn't really his wife and he'd cap her without thinking twice. I like to imagine that's how In The Blood would end, but I doubt it.

 

[Shockdingo]

Hmm, maybe I'm...okay, no, I am in the minority. I'm actually interested in ITB, I don't see it as that bad at all. I mean, yea the Maria thing is controversial, but I think it's a rather interesting development mostly because it takes Frank into a new direction and stirs up a crapton of emotion in him.

For the sake of conversation, what's bothering you guys the most about ITB? Is it the Maria thing? Pacing? Plotting? Etc? I'm mostly just curious since to me, the issues don't hold a candle of unnecessary badness to the whole Franken-Castle debacle.

 

[fat freddys cat]

Hmm, maybe I'm...okay, no, I am in the minority. I'm actually interested in ITB, I don't see it as that bad at all. I mean, yea the Maria thing is controversial, but I think it's a rather interesting development mostly because it takes Frank into a new direction and stirs up a crapton of emotion in him.

For the sake of conversation, what's bothering you guys the most about ITB? Is it the Maria thing? Pacing? Plotting? Etc? I'm mostly just curious since to me, the issues don't hold a candle of unnecessary badness to the whole Franken-Castle debacle.

I actually agree, In The Blood is great it has some great Punisher moments, like in Issue 3 the scene at the table with the mobsters was pure old school, yes Maria thing is 'out there' but it is not her I think....

 

[Shockdingo]

The reason I'm not freaking out over the Maria thing, is I think it's the husk of her, but the spirit/soul/whatever the hood brought back was only a copy that knew it was a copy and either:
1. It still knows it's a clone but it's objective was to torture Frank mentally in progressively worse ways through their life if he chose to "go home and hang up his guns." (Day 1, all is okay, week 5 she drops a little comment here about the death, year 1 the accusations get worse and worse till he's fighting back tears and putting a gun to his head)

2. The trauma of the immolation execution shocked her into really thinking she's Maria.

I'm just waiting till this is over to reserve judgment; because, other than the Maria thing, I'm really enjoying Frank busting into the gritty crime filled places that are realistic crime venues as well as ones that cater to the more out-there nature of the MU. Personally, I find it interesting to see an enemy really get under Frank like this. We usually see Frank mad, but collected, but it's rare that we see him so irate and rattled to the point his judgment is altered. For that reason alone, I'm interested in seeing this through, I think it's indeed controversial, but an interesting character path.

 

[fat freddys cat]

Good post am enjoying In The Blood , it's not too far out there , And is still quite brutal.

 

[runawayboulder]

I don't know what it is particularly but I'm not into In The Blood at all. It just doesn't seem like Remender's best work after reading stuff like UXF. I'm dying for MAX to come back.

 

[cthulhu]

Yeah I agree - In the Blood just seems half hearted. The fight scenes seem poorly choreographed and everything seems really shallow. The story really was used recently in Max with Nicky Cavella digging up Franks family so its not like the whole concept is even original. Its just here remeder has decided to do the same store to the x-treme L I was a fan of him way before he came to the Punisher (fear agent and strange girl are good )and am getting his UXM which is admittedly much better. I think that the Punisher needs a level of reality that remender seems incapable of writing, everything he writes seems to need to be set at 100mph and there is no pacing or quiet moments. Stuff and bluster or an empty spectacle. His In the blood seems to be all style and no substance, will any of his run have a lasting impact? I doubt it frankly…
More importantly Max starts again next week!!!

 

[NamelessNoName]

After Ennis left the Max Punisher I wasn’t going to pick up anymore Punisher comic books… and looking at what’s happen since then… man did I save money or what. I knew there was going to be one bad terrible story after the other. I still haven’t bought that Punisher: War Zone that Ennis did and I’m sure that I want to. The last Punisher comic I did get was The Marvel Universe Vs The Punisher, where he’s fighting zombies/cannibals and that was decent but it was still far from good. There’s this Punisher Ronin story that’s coming and that looks interesting… maybe
http://www.badrobotninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/marvel-punisher-5-ronin-var.jpg

But now there’s this In the Blood crap… the artwork is just terrible, it looks sloppy, as if everyone is made of clay. I still can’t believe they draw the Punisher like a superhero with the white boots and gloves. Then there’s this whole thing with Maria, acting like an assassin, a Catwoman/Typhoid Mary wannabe that makes no sense at all. I hope it’s the whole, “it’s her body but a different spirit thing”. I have to agree with CrimsonMist, the real Punisher would have recognized that and killed her in one second. What’s the matter Remender, there’s not enough femme fatales out there for you to use? Talk about running out of ideas…

 

[fat freddys cat]

Hmmm , Sure Your not just an Ennis fan ?

And you read the Punisher cause of him ?

Cause MU vs The Punisher was one of the best Punisher stories in years and actually showed Frank Castle fitting into a super Hero Universe, cause he was allowed to do what
the character is supposed too, IE kill...

Don't get me wrong, am not 'blinded' by my liking of the character not too know a crap
punisher story when I see one, Fraction's run was nearly the worse run ever on the Punisher, he never 'got' Franks character, and Fraction was actually big enough to admit that.

As for In The Blood , yes it's no where near the greatest Punisher story ever, It is at best A fun frivolous Punisher tale which as stated in the above posts is all about to be rebooted.

I will admit that Remender was maybe not the most suited writer to write The Punisher, his Fear Agent is great but you can see traits of this in his Punisher writing.

I also think Aaron could do a 616 mu Punisher , like Bendis has done two different Spiderman's(ultimates and 616 ) and it was all good , Plus Aaron has a real deep liking of the Punishers character, a seriuos fan , and that always helps , lol