The Official Start/Release Date & Location Thread

[\S/JcDc\S/]

I think the initial flaw in your logic is comparing Superman to X-men. Superman should be putting up Spider-Man numbers, not X-Men numbers.

The only way Superman could put up Spidey numbers is too have a mindless MTV generation style romp. Where you get all the teens on board for popcorn fest. Not the kind of movie I want.

 

[Matt]

The only way Superman could put up Spidey numbers is too have a mindless MTV generation style romp. Where you get all the teens on board for popcorn fest. Not the kind of movie I want.

I don't think so. The Spider-Man movies have had two or three action scenes. Thats it. Sure, a little action would help, but being a mindless romp is not necessary. The problem is the lack of relation to the characters. People like characterization they can RELATE to. Singer went out of his way to show how alienated Superman is. That alienates him from the audience. Then Lois, she was an ice queen. that is why this movie didn't put up Spider-Man numbers. In Spider-man, you feel for every character from Peter to Mj, from Harry to Norman. You understand them, you care about them, you feel for them. The only character I felt anything for in SR was Richard White. That is the problem. Not the lack of action.

 

[Matt]

It Should yes.

but i don't think that in this era it is possible.

i mean do the Superman comics do Spiderman numbers Matt ?

Not to sound like a broken record, but comic sales to movie sales is apples and oranges.

 

[Darth Elektra]

Glad to hear that the sequel to Returns hasnt been pushed back.

 

[mego joe]

The only way Superman could put up Spidey numbers is too have a mindless MTV generation style romp. Where you get all the teens on board for popcorn fest. Not the kind of movie I want.

So do you feel the SPider-Man films are "mindless MTV generation style romp(s)" ?

 

[Maze]

Not to sound like a broken record, but comic sales to movie sales is apples and oranges.

Well to my knowledge comics sales reflect often ( but not every times) pubic tendancy.

Anyways , you know what do i hear about Superman most of the time?

what did i heard sometimes before Sr release? (i remember Superman the movie was shown anew on nationnal television ) Superman is boring , too clear cut ,he is outdated .

incidentally , i know a number of people who changed a little thier mind after Sr.they even started to like him.

But most of the people that i know did not.

those people didn't wan't to see Sr based on the idea that they have of the character.

 

[dark_b]

I don't think so. The Spider-Man movies have had two or three action scenes. Thats it. Sure, a little action would help, but being a mindless romp is not necessary. The problem is the lack of relation to the characters. People like characterization they can RELATE to. Singer went out of his way to show how alienated Superman is. That alienates him from the audience. Then Lois, she was an ice queen. that is why this movie didn't put up Spider-Man numbers. In Spider-man, you feel for every character from Peter to Mj, from Harry to Norman. You understand them, you care about them, you feel for them. The only character I felt anything for in SR was Richard White. That is the problem. Not the lack of action.

you see i can not agree with that.
1. i think that that you dont make that big numbers because peopel are going in the theater because of the character. i think the word col is how you make bug numbers and spidey was just and still is cool and has cool shots.
2. i think what singer did with superman is that he put him closer to us not far far away.

 

[Justice Bringer]

I have to agree that Singer's universe of Superman was the closest attempt I've ever seen to Superman existing in our real world.

It made it seem like Superman was real.

I kinda prefer that over a more comicbook-like approach personally.

 

[El Payaso]

I have to agree that Singer's universe of Superman was the closest attempt I've ever seen to Superman existing in our real world.

It made it seem like Superman was real.

I kinda prefer that over a more comicbook-like approach personally.

It was time for a change. We already got too much Superman - and other characters like Spiderman - with the easy way, where everything happens like a carbon copy of comics but limiting themselves to explore what thge 'real' character is beyond the cliches.

 

[Maze]

I agree totally.

 

[Justice Bringer]

Plus it makes SR fit with BB's universe and look more easily.

This is why it was prolly best Brandon wasnt running around in the bright Chris Reeve tights. That just wouldnt look right next to Nolan's Batman.

I think the look for the film visually in the sequel will be closer to Kakorot's manips, a subtle change.

 

[darkseid26]

your right about the costume thing JB superman in bright costume would not look cool to badass batman

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

I think the initial flaw in your logic is comparing Superman to X-men. Superman should be putting up Spider-Man numbers, not X-Men numbers.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm
Boxoffice gross adjusted for inflation (just USA)
Spider-Man $457,209,600
Superman (Richard Donner) $377,416,500
So even Donner's Superman wasn't as successful as Raimi's Spider-Man.

 

[bosef982]

I guess this thread can be locked now but should be saved for memories as this is the thread lexlives got banned in t:

How did he get banned?

 

[bosef982]

I think the initial flaw in your logic is comparing Superman to X-men. Superman should be putting up Spider-Man numbers, not X-Men numbers.

The initial flaw in HIS logic...what about yours?

Your assuming a huge correlation between Spider-Man and Superman simply because what...they are the most well-known Marvel/DC icons? Um...how did you come to that conclusion?

There is no relevance or basis whatsoever for a belief that Superman should produce Spider-Man level numbers. None. What. So. Ever.

Point me to where it says that beyond your subjective opinion?

Spider-Man has a unique set of variables and standards that made it the hit that it was...not to say that Superman Returns bombed at the box office. Its universally accepted by almost anyone with a brain that WB had unrealistic expectations since Superman pulled more money that Batman Begins, which is considered a success.

Are you the lone one who is going to stick to the outdated belief that somehow this movie tanked?

And I think Maze brought up a terrific point by asking if Superman comics over the past ten years have done as well as Spider-Man comics?

If the answer is yes, then you're right.
If the answer is no, then you're "logic" has several flaws.
If the answer is "I don't know," then your logic is based on unfounded reasoning.

So, please explain this to us.

 

[bosef982]

Not to sound like a broken record, but comic sales to movie sales is apples and oranges.

Wiat, so now there's no relevance between the two?

Then how the heck are you making this association? Superman should make Spider-Man numbers...WHY? You still haven't answered that?

Because its a comic book movie? Then why aren't you running aruond harping on X-Men, Fantastic Four, Batman Begins, etc.?

You have failed to tell us where there is a similarity between Spider-Man and Superman that makes their box office numbers expectations simliar? What characteristic do they share that no other ecomic book movie has that alone makes Superman have to perform like Spider-Man?

When you've answered this question, your logic will make sense. Until then, the only one we can presume is that Spider-Man and Superman -- in their comic realms -- are just as popular as one another. But then this does introduce comic book sales numbers into the equation, which you would inevitabily find are not comparable as Spider-Man has outperformed.

 

[Matt]

The similiarity is the iconic status. You ask anyone on the street to identify Spider-Man or Superman, they can. The same similiarity does not exisit with heroes like X-Men, Daredevil, Hulk, etc. Superman has been an American icon who has been in existance for the better part of a century. He has had numerous top rated television programs, best selling books, and has appeared in countless other mediums. That is why he should be putting up ATLEAST Spider-Man numbers. In fact Bosef, I can find posts made by you a year ago, arguing these exact points as to why Superman would win the box-office over Pirates.

 

[darkseid26]

Dammn!

 

[bosef982]

The similiarity is the iconic status. You ask anyone on the street to identify Spider-Man or Superman, they can. The same similiarity does not exisit with heroes like X-Men, Daredevil, Hulk, etc. Superman has been an American icon who has been in existance for the better part of a century. He has had numerous top rated television programs, best selling books, and has appeared in countless other mediums. That is why he should be putting up ATLEAST Spider-Man numbers. In fact Bosef, I can find posts made by you a year ago, arguing these exact points as to why Superman would win the box-office over Pirates.

Please do.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

With a great budget comes great expectations. Even Alan Horn was quoted as saying they were expecting at least $500 million worldwide.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

With a great budget comes great expectations. Even Alan Horn was quoted as saying they were expecting at least $500 million worldwide.

No one is saying that WB wasn't disappointed. But considering that they signed Singer aboard for the sequel right after the film grossed $200 million shows that they trust him to bring in a huge money maker next time 'round.

Superman has been an American icon who has been in existance for the better part of a century. He has had numerous top rated television programs, best selling books, and has appeared in countless other mediums.

So has Batman, whose popularity rivals Superman's. And BB was only able to gross $205 million domestic, a far cry from Spider-man numbers himself (and, yes, Warner Brothers was most certainly hoping for Spider-man numbers with Batman Begins as well).

 

[Matt]

No one is saying that WB wasn't disappointed. But considering that they signed Singer aboard for the sequel right after the film grossed $200 million shows that they trust him to bring in a huge money maker next time 'round.

Or they were just so desperate to recoup some of their losses that they signed Singer and planned to limit his budget in order to FORCE a profit. Thats also a possibility, but the fact is none of us know what WB executives were thinking so lets not be so foolish to think we do.

So has Batman, whose popularity rivals Superman's. And BB was only able to gross $205 million domestic, a far cry from Spider-man numbers himself (and, yes, Warner Brothers was most certainly hoping for Spider-man numbers with Batman Begins as well).

Nonsense. Batman Begins was made for teenagers/adults and practically neglected the child demographic. Marketing proved that as did the lack of merchandising. SR on the other hand was meant from day one to appeal to the youth demographic as can be seen through merchandising and marketing. WB knows that it is the kiddie market that brings in Spider-Man numbers, therefore if they did not sell BB to that market, it is unrealistic to believe they would expect Spider-Man numbers from it.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

Nonsense. Batman Begins was made for teenagers/adults and practically neglected the child demographic. Marketing proved that as did the lack of merchandising. SR on the other hand was meant from day one to appeal to the youth demographic as can be seen through merchandising and marketing. WB knows that it is the kiddie market that brings in Spider-Man numbers, therefore if they did not sell BB to that market, it is unrealistic to believe they would expect Spider-Man numbers from it.

Oh please. If Batman Begins wasn't aimed at kids then neither was the original Burton film. And guess what, as a child of the mid 80s and 90s, Burton's film was very much marketed to children. All comic book movies are. BB isn't an exception. Hell, Batman himself isn't an exception. He's always been marketed to children and always will be. And last I checked there were in fact plenty of Batman Begins toys and it ain't the adults buying them and playing with them.

WB was most certainly aiming for Spider-man numbers with Begins. But it didn't happen.

 

[Showtime]

The truth has to be faced by some of you, Spiderman has stolen Superman's post when it comes to iconic hero potrayed in film. You can blame WB for that. It took so long for them to get their act together through Burton, MCG, Ratner and so on; that Spiderman swung down and sent Superman back to Krypton.

Spiderman stole Superman's spotlight and was the all American hero in The Man of Steel's absence. After 9/11 the world needed a hero and Spiderman gladly accepted the mantle. From there everything Spiderman just kept rolling as Superman struggled in pre-production hell. By the time Superman had come back so many heroes had already graced the screen.

However this is no excuse, Superman should have still pulled in big numbers and should be able to go head to head with Spiderman on any day. Superman is DC's top hero and the movie failed against Marvel's top hero. It is what it is. You can't make excuses in the place of facts.

 

[Showtime]

OK...this is the craziest April Fools Joke. Pink and Green?