The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Official TASM2 Costume Thread!! - Part 1

[SonicWarrior]

He's not batman. He was never a symbol of hope. He was never looked upon fondly in the comics by alot of people. This was due to JJ's propaganda against him.

All I'm saying is, I don't want to see this 'we all love spidey' stuff. I hated that in the Raimi films. I want him to feel the strain of being a hero. Especially one that is not trusted by the people.

He's saved the city and stopped criminals many times in the comics, but thanks to the media and at times being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but him in a bad light. Twisted the truth. He is not liked/admired by people. Sure, some see past the lies and see the truth. That he is a hero. That's what I also liked at the end of TASM. With the grafitti guys. That there are people who believe in him. But I hope he isn't this 'symbol of hope' in TASM2. Not yet anyway.

This will just add to his character. That through all the lies that the public will believe, he will keep on fighting for them.

IMO, it's part of what makes spidey so appealing.

That's not true at all...
Spider-Man has been seen as a symbol of hope tons of times throughout the comics, just not in the same way Batman has. Maybe not by everyone all the time, but for some reason what I said what I said that's what you got from it.

But like I actually said, there are a lot of people out there who hated Spider-Man through Jameson's whole campaign against him, but there were people who seen him as a hero. Not everyone hated Spider-Man, and I'm not saying everyone should like them.

 

[Smegger56]

That's not true at all...
Spider-Man has been seen as a symbol of hope tons of times throughout the comics, just not in the same way Batman has. Maybe not by everyone all the time, but for some reason what I said what I said that's what you got from it.

But like I actually said, there are a lot of people out there who hated Spider-Man through Jameson's whole campaign against him, but there were people who seen him as a hero. Not everyone hated Spider-Man, and I'm not saying everyone should like them.

There's a difference having some see him as a symbol of hope and then seeing the entire city rally behind him and love him (ala the Raimi films).

I want police after him (ala TASM), I want people to almost be fearful of him due to the media propaganda. I want him to feel the strain of all this, but at the same time, knowing that some do see him as a hero.

Again, this just adds more to him as a character.

At the very least, he should be a mixed bag.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Meh, I don't know. The best parts of the Raimi films were the ones where the regular folks helped Spidey.

I always liked that and thought it was indicative of the Everyman appeal of the character. You don't see folks doing that with Supes or Batman. Or Iron Man. Maybe Cap. But Spider-Man is supposed to be the most human and relatable of all supers.

Having the public overly leery of him rings false with an audience more than it grows a character. Batman is a hero people expect that sort of thing with, because he's dark and he's gruff and shadowy and whatnot. But the Webslinger? He's our pal.

 

[socool]

Meh, I don't know. The best parts of the Raimi films were the ones where the regular folks helped Spidey.

Wow...first I've heard of anyone saying this...

 

[Smegger56]

I'm all for showing some love for spidey. BUT, IMO, the Raimi films gave too much. It's like what was the point of having JJ or those little vox pops in the film.

Showing distrust to a hero is something the audience could relate. How would you feel if a 'spiderman' appeared in the real world and the media had an agenda

If anything, we know that he;s a hero and will do nothing but support him and root for him more to come through these problems.

The media can sway peoples opinions incredibly. If the media, like JJ, had an agenda against spidey, a lot of readers may believe it.

And seeing our pal going through all that will only make you root for him more. He will be more sympathetic.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Wow...first I've heard of anyone saying this...

Really? I thought this was pretty widely held. I mean, even Webb tries (unsuccessfully) to ape it in ASM with the cranes. And he explicitly gets to the heart of it with the scene where Garfield gives the kid the mask.

Spidey is a hero for workin' class folks. I think people - real in a theatre or the fake ones drawn in the panels themselves see that.

 

[Smegger56]

Really? I thought this was pretty widely held. I mean, even Webb tries (unsuccessfully) to ape it in ASM with the cranes. And he explicitly gets to the heart of it with the scene where Garfield gives the kid the mask.

Spidey is a hero for workin' class folks. I think people - real in a theatre or the fake ones drawn in the panels themselves see that.

It was one guy who more or less told his work mates to do this for him, for what Spidey did for him. It wasn't new york backing him. It was one guy who spidey helped who got his mates to do this for him.

This wasn't a 'you mess with one of us...' scene.

And also, IMO, it was a stunning visual, that whole swinging section.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Dude : Mandatory biological warfare evacuation.
Lizard people attacking.

And these dudes stuck around for... C. Thomas Howell saying what exactly? "We gotta help Spider-Man".

So average guy says "Man I may be poisoned and die or turn into a lizard if I don't bail - but Soul Man over here just asked me to risk my entire life for someone I THINK IS A MENACE AND I HATE BOO HIM. Of course I'll do it! Let me get my crane!"

The only way to read this is that they all were down with the basic idea of helping Spidey. I'm not saying ASM earned that payoff - it didn't really - but that's what it meant. It meant "The city is with you" not "Pony Boy is persuasive."

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

It was an amazing visual, btw, you're right. Which made the fact that they hadn't earned it all the more frustrating.

 

[Smegger56]

Dude : Mandatory biological warfare evacuation.
Lizard people attacking.

And these dudes stuck around for... C. Thomas Howell saying what exactly? "We gotta help Spider-Man".

So average guy says "Man I may be poisoned and did or turn into a lizard if I don't bail - but Soul Man over here just asked me to risk my entire life for someone I THINK IS A MENACE AND I HATE BOO HIM. Of course I'll do it! Let me get my crane!"

The only way to read this is that they all were down with the basic idea of helping Spidey. I'm not saying ASM earned that payoff - it didn't really - but that's what it meant. It meant "The city is with you" not "Pony Boy is persuasive."

I put it down more to that they are people who respected this guy and he asked them for help. They where even going to evacuate before he stopped them to ask for help. It's not like

So yeah. It says to me that this guy persuaded them to help him. I'm sure he told them Spidey helped him. But it's not like they where all lining up to help before this guy (who's son was saved by spidey) asked them to. The movie pretty much shows this guy is the one to get the ball rolling on that.

I thought it payed off. Cool. All opinion

(glad we both agree onthe visual aspect at least lol)

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

I don't care how much I like C. Thomas Howell, I'm not gonna brave the threat of TURNING INTO A LIZARD CREATURE to help him help a guy I think is a public menace. There has to be preexisting goodwill for Spidey, and the movie does show some of that. In general it botched the important question of how regular folks view Spidey.

We see a lot public reaction from the police but we don't see outside that enough to know. The finale then asks us to accept people caring enough to risk their lives.

Webb wasn't as into the superhero stuff as the relationship stuff. He'll get there this time, I think. As I've said before I think he suffered from a studio edit.

 

[Smegger56]

I don't care how much I like C. Thomas Howell, I'm not gonna brave the threat of TURNING INTO A LIZARD CREATURE to help him help a guy I think is a public menace. There has to be preexisting goodwill for Spidey, and the movie does show some of that. In general it botched the important question of how regular folks view Spidey.

We see a lot public reaction from the police but we don't see outside that enough to know. The finale then asks us to accept people caring enough to risk their lives.

Webb wasn't as into the superhero stuff as the relationship stuff. He'll get there this time, I think. As I've said before I think he suffered from a studio edit.

I have no doubt there was some studio interference.

Anyway, I'm going to disagree with ya. We see how one man was touched by spidey. So instead of a group of random people we had never seen before show up at the end, we get one guy who we saw earlier in the film have his son rescued by spidey and at the end he helps spidey. We are shown at a personal level the effects spidey can have on people. And he was a regular guy. Who views spidey as a hero after seeing what he did first hand.

This guy must be someone that is respected and liked. As they where all going to bugger off until he got the ball rolling on the whole crane section.

I thought Webb had a fine grasp of the Hero stuff.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

That's not true at all...
Spider-Man has been seen as a symbol of hope tons of times throughout the comics, just not in the same way Batman has. Maybe not by everyone all the time, but for some reason what I said what I said that's what you got from it.

But like I actually said, there are a lot of people out there who hated Spider-Man through Jameson's whole campaign against him, but there were people who seen him as a hero. Not everyone hated Spider-Man, and I'm not saying everyone should like them.

I see what you're saying as well. The whole "we love spidey" or "look, it's spider-man! *cheers*" is a traditional superhero element and I personally enjoy some of that as well.

I guess where I'm going with this is the way Webb is noticeably drawing inspiration of the Ultimate comics and a lot of the times, it wasn't "we love spidey". Currently, I'm personally enjoying that theme and hope it's still continued (but not overly) to this sequel.

 

[Smegger56]

I'm not against the idea of New York loving spidey. I just don't want it to happen right away. I want to see some media influence on the public. I want to see spidey mess up which gives them the wrong idea.

Just becuase we the audience know he's a hero shouldn't mean we can't see him perceived as a menace by the films public.

I want him to go on that journey before we get the 'you mess with one of us you mess with all of us' stuff.

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

I should clarify that I don't mean Webb botched the "hero's journey" stuff, though I think the choppy studio cut rendered it a little muddy. I mean integrating a superhero into a more grounded world. Stuff like the police's over-eager trigger fingers in ASM and ignoring regular folks responding to Spidey outside of a couple quick shots where the intention was brushed over.

Admittedly Raimi's SM1 had an easier route through their use of The Daily Bugle. You got a stronger sense of JJJ's misappropriation of influence there which made the folks standing up for Spidey at the end of that film pretty great. Plus you had lots of shots of people on the ground pointing and watching Spider-Man zip by.

In ASM it's just muddier. I'm not against the more conflicted public response, but then you can't pull the most awesome visual and emotional beat with the cranes out because it's not yet earned. If that had happened in a third film on his way to save Gwen, that would've been powerful and part of an evolution.

Just my feeling. There were more than a few folks I knew who were frustrated with ASM doing the crane thing because it was soooo good and soooo out of place in that particular story.

 

[Smegger56]

I should clarify that I don't mean Webb botched the "hero's journey" stuff, though I think the choppy studio cut rendered it a little muddy. I mean integrating a superhero into a more grounded world. Stuff like the police's over-eager trigger fingers in ASM and ignoring regular folks responding to Spidey outside of a couple quick shots where the intention was brushed over.

I found the blend natural between the hero and real world stuff. But that;s me.

Admittedly Raimi's SM1 had an easier route through their use of The Daily Bugle. You got a stronger sense of JJJ's misappropriation of influence there which made the folks standing up for Spidey at the end of that film pretty great. Plus you had lots of shots of people on the ground pointing and watching Spider-Man zip by.

But the problem is, it felt like it was only JJ who hated spidey. I never got a sense the public was against him at all. You don't really in TASM. But you get a better look from the police how they see him as a menace.

I feel that in TASM, you even have a spidey making mistakes (like messing up a police sting operation and only out hunting guys who all look alike, as if he has some 'vendetta'). So the police have valid concerns over spidey being a menace.

And having Stacey on TV pointing that fact out that they have issued and arrest warrent will have only spurred the view that he may be a menace.

In ASM it's just muddier. I'm not against the more conflicted public response, but then you can't pull the most awesome visual and emotional beat with the cranes out because it's not yet earned. If that had happened in a third film on his way to save Gwen, that would've been powerful and part of an evolution.

If all of New York had been involved, I'd agree. But it was one guy who got a few others to help out. And it wasn't just like spidey saved this guys life. He saved his sons. Massive motivation to help out spidey. So, IMO, the scene fit.

Just my feeling. There were more than a few folks I knew who were frustrated with ASM doing the crane thing because it was soooo good and soooo out of place in that particular story.

IMO, it fit just for the guy. I can believe that this one man got the ball rolling on the crane stuff, as I've said before .


----


Something tells me we're not going to convince each other lol. But I'm enjoying the debate

 

[Jexx]

I like the idea of Spidey being seen as an anarchist a little. It sounds realistic in terms of how the media would portray a superhero like Spider-Man.

In The Avengers, it sounded like the public was wary of the team by the end also...

 

[Smegger56]

I like the idea of Spidey being seen as an anarchist a little. It sounds realistic in terms of how the media would portray a superhero like Spider-Man.

In The Avengers, it sounded like the public was wary of the team by the end also...

Yep. Having doubts about a masked hero seems very realistic for me. But I also just like it from a story/character perspective

 

[samsnee]

Isn't this the costume thread, not the "Should the public trust Spidey" thread?

 

[Jexx]

I also like the idea of having high school/college students being his main backers as well.

 

[Smegger56]

I also like the idea of having high school/college students being his main backers as well.

Led by non other than Flash.

Isn't this the costume thread, not the "Should the public trust Spidey" thread?

Give this man a cookie

To be fair, there is only so much you can say before you go back and forth. I believe it did lead to the 'public spidey love/hate', so.... yeah

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

I also like the idea of having high school/college students being his main backers as well.

Definitely. The flashes of that were great.

 

[Smegger56]

Definitely. The flashes of that were great.

I think this is where Flash will play a big role, if he's in it

 

[ImAlwaysAngry]

Isn't this the costume thread, not the "Should the public trust Spidey" thread?

Let me reframe:
Is the public more likely to trust Spidey in an edgy, oily, basketball-suit or in a Halloween costume?


Sorry to go OT.

 

[Smegger56]

Let me reframe:
Is the public more likely to trust Spidey in an edgy, oily, basketball-suit or in a Halloween costume?


Sorry to go OT.

lol. Tou che