The 'race' issue...

[November Rain]

that foo dude is awesome...

 

[The Kid]

problem is that, despite a few people thinking that Chatwin is a good actor, he's pretty mundane and dull. also, i don't think he looks EXACTLY like Goku. imo, he looks like a typical anime character more than he looks like Goku.


to be fair...you pretty much described Justin Chatwin. a person who many people think looks like Goku, but didn't have any martial arts experience. i totally agree with the sentence i just quoted (not necessarily with the rest of your post), which is why i think Jon Foo is more qualified. he's an ACTUAL martial artist while Chatwin is just an actor who is going to ACT like a martial artist.

Yeah yeah, Chatwin sucks, bla bla..

In any case, it just occured to me, why do we automatically assume Chatwin has absolutely 0 asian ancestry? He really does seem to be kind of asian... Look at Rob Schnieider. You'd never guess he's part Filipino!

Keanu Reeves too. There's no damn races anymore. Everybody should just mix and be happy! gtrrrr

 

[DorkyFresh]

that foo dude is awesome...

that he is. with guys like him running around the martial arts community, it makes me wonder just how many people Fox let audition for the role of Goku. to me it feels like they barely auditioned anyone.

Yeah yeah, Chatwin sucks, bla bla..

hey those are your words, not mine. i never said Chatwin sucks....i just said he's unqualified. i'm sure he's a cool guy in person, but he's just not a very good actor.

In any case, it just occured to me, why do we automatically assume Chatwin has absolutely 0 asian ancestry? He really does seem to be kind of asian... Look at Rob Schnieider. You'd never guess he's part japanese!

unless he mentions that he's part Asian or there's some sort of article about his ancestry, all we can assume is that he's white. it's not as if he looks like he's mixed. he looks straight up white.


btw, Rob Schneider is part FILIPINO.....not Japanese.

 

[mr. peasant]

as you said, she's from West City....which is most likely a different part of the world than Grandpa Gohan's home.

There's no indication of it. Plus, if the setting as a whole is, as you say, Asian inspired, wouldn't that include West City as well? Sure, it's more modern compared to where Grandpa Gohan is from, but to me, that's more to do with one being an urban setting while the latter a rural one.

As for the 'west' part of West City, that's again not an indication of how far 'west' its actual geographic location is (though I should point out that a 'western location' is a completely moronic notion given how planets are actually spherical). Take for instance, West Timor[/quote]. While it has the word 'west' in it, it's just in comparison to East Timor and is still very much in the East (in the traditional sense of the location).

well, in my particular case, you feel wrong. my wish for Goku to have Asian features stems from Goku having Asian origins and IN MY OPINION an Asian appearance.

Fair enough. Though, an interesting thing I learned is that the character Goku is actually based on, is actually a humanoid monkey born from a rock, and so wasn't meant to look (nor was Wukong ever depicted as in artwork) Asian in his features.

excluding Uwe Boll's video game movies, this movie is arguably the most hated adaptation since Batman & Robin. even people who don't know anything about Dragon Ball are ripping this movie apart. RyoJin also pointed out that his girl said that many people from Japan don't like the fact that Goku is being played by a white person. as for G.I. Joe......no one is complaining about the characters' races the way Goku's race is constantly being brought up. whenever this movie is brought up, every other 2nd comment is about why a white guy is playing Goku.

I remember vaguely some forumers having mentioned that as well. Likewise, I haven't heard many complaints from my side of the Asian community (though mind you, I don't live in Japan). What I meant was that I didn't remember seeing any news articles regarding any backlash in Japan against the decision for making Goku Caucasian when it was first made public.

Also, I think there's another explanation for the 'Asiatic' setting. In my opinion, I don't think Akira Toriyama had any particular ethnicity in mind for Goku when he first wrote up Dragon Ball, which took place in an entirely fantasy setting. Regarding the traditional 'Asian'-esque appearance and style, it's because it's the standard/typical expectation for a 'period fantasy' setting for the Japanese. It's kind of like why Western fantasy games have typical medieval, European castles even though there's no Europe in such settings. It's all about familiarity.

 

[The Kid]

unless he mentions that he's part Asian or there's some sort of article about his ancestry, all we can assume is that he's white. it's not as if he looks like he's mixed. he looks straight up white.


btw, Rob Schneider is part FILIPINO.....not Japanese.

Yes, I've corrected myself. Schneider's part asian, yet he's also assumed to be a 100% caucasian. You put up a video and pics of someone who is also multi-racial and would looooove him to be goku. So what I'm asking is what if Chatwin's the same way? Then would you relax? Or is it so important that we do blood tests and stuff before casting any of these movies...

I hope Chatwin has no asian background though. It's really not a problem.

 

[Dark Jaguar]

to be fair...you pretty much described Justin Chatwin. a person who many people think looks like Goku, but didn't have any martial arts experience. i totally agree with the sentence i just quoted (not necessarily with the rest of your post), which is why i think Jon Foo is more qualified. he's an ACTUAL martial artist while Chatwin is just an actor who is going to ACT like a martial artist.

Yet, can Jon Foo speak English? Well enough to be the lead in a movie? He might be able to speak Thai pretty well... But all I've heard is that his English is poor.

How about the fact that there's some (a li'l bit) symmetry between Goku and Chatwin... both are aliens to the culture and enviroments they're in...?

 

[kaypain]

Chatwin was born in British Columbia, just to let everyone know

 

[Dark Jaguar]

Chatwin was born in British Columbia, just to let everyone know

OK...

and?
People of mixed decent can't come from Canada?

 

[kaypain]

did I say that, I just said he was born from British Columbia, I'm not commenting on racial decent, I'm just saying where the guy was born...

 

[Dark Jaguar]

and i'm wondering what the reason is for posting that information...

This is a thread about race... not birth place.

 

[kaypain]

thank you, you just made me realize something....
I give up..

peace

 

[Dark Jaguar]

cool.

 

[Dark Jaguar]

As for the 'west' part of West City, that's again not an indication of how far 'west' its actual geographic location is (though I should point out that a 'western location' is a completely moronic notion given how planets are actually spherical).



Fair enough. Though, an interesting thing I learned is that the character Goku is actually based on, is actually a humanoid monkey born from a rock, and so wasn't meant to look (nor was Wukong ever depicted as in artwork) Asian in his features.



I remember vaguely some forumers having mentioned that as well. Likewise, I haven't heard many complaints from my side of the Asian community (though mind you, I don't live in Japan). What I meant was that I didn't remember seeing any news articles regarding any backlash in Japan against the decision for making Goku Caucasian when it was first made public.

How is it a moronic concept? Without things like "west" and "east", we wouldn't be able to travel. but that is neither here nor there.

The guy that Goku is based off of is a... up-right monkey born from a rock... WOW!! I always figured Goku was as dumb as a rock... and now I know!!

What is "your side of the Asian community", if you don't mind me asking? And are there any Asians that would rather see a white guy playing Goku? I know there are white people who'd rather see an asian playing Goku... but I've never seen the reverse...

 

[javphonic]

As of right now, Jon Foo is currently filming Tekken, he will be playing Jin Kazama

interesting, he'd make a good Jin as well, I wonder which of the two films will be more succesful, DB or Tekken?

 

[mr. peasant]

How is it a moronic concept? Without things like "west" and "east", we wouldn't be able to travel. but that is neither here nor there.

Well, if you keep traveling west past Alaska, you wind up in Russia, which is in the 'East'; which would feel counter-intuitive since in order to travel to 'the East', one must travel westward from 'the West'. The norm/default of the U.S. being located in the West is based on maps with London as its longitudinal zero. But if you instead drew a map with Singapore as its center, the U.S. would now be in the East instead. Or in other words, what constitutes 'the West' and 'the East' is entirely reliant on a point of reference in order to have any meaning.

What is "your side of the Asian community", if you don't mind me asking? And are there any Asians that would rather see a white guy playing Goku? I know there are white people who'd rather see an asian playing Goku... but I've never seen the reverse...

While I dislike divulging personal details online, I'll just say that I'm a Southeast Asian studying in the U.K. Hence, I'm in regular conversation with Asians in the U.K. (mostly students, both local and international) as well as my home country, as well as a few more contacts in Australia; all of whom, by and large haven't really had any complaint about some 'White guy' portraying Goku.

 

[javphonic]

Well, if you keep traveling west past Alaska, you wind up in Russia, which is in the 'East';

SIDEBAR---seriosly everyone should know this by now-Palin

 

[DorkyFresh]

There's no indication of it. Plus, if the setting as a whole is, as you say, Asian inspired, wouldn't that include West City as well? Sure, it's more modern compared to where Grandpa Gohan is from, but to me, that's more to do with one being an urban setting while the latter a rural one.

well even though i like to say the world of DB was inspired by Asian ideas and settings, that doesn't mean that there aren't other cultures in the manga/anime that are inspired by different cultures. there was an Indian inspired culture and some people have said that Piccolo's head wrap and cape are inspired by the Arabians. i like to think that Grandpa Gohan's home and the surrounding area was inspired by Asian cultures while the rest of the world has their own cultures and civilizations much like our own world.

Fair enough. Though, an interesting thing I learned is that the character Goku is actually based on, is actually a humanoid monkey born from a rock, and so wasn't meant to look (nor was Wukong ever depicted as in artwork) Asian in his features.

you've brought this up before, and while you're right that Wukong didn't have any facial features that indicated that he was of Asian ancestry, that doesn't change that Goku is an Asian name given to a boy with straight, black hair and black eyes.....which are traits that are more associated with Asians (and maybe Hispanics) than Caucasians.

I remember vaguely some forumers having mentioned that as well. Likewise, I haven't heard many complaints from my side of the Asian community (though mind you, I don't live in Japan). What I meant was that I didn't remember seeing any news articles regarding any backlash in Japan against the decision for making Goku Caucasian when it was first made public.

well, any magazine or website that wants to be respected isn't going to post gossip about what Japan thinks of Goku's race. couple that with the fact that this movie isn't very popular and there's your reason why you haven't run into any articles that talk about Japanese backlash against Goku being Caucasian. the race of the actor who plays Goku is still a superficial thing in many people's minds and most magazines and websites won't risk the humiliation of bringing up such a sensitive subject as race. this movie is so unpopular and unpromising that it's not even worth it.

Also, I think there's another explanation for the 'Asiatic' setting. In my opinion, I don't think Akira Toriyama had any particular ethnicity in mind for Goku when he first wrote up Dragon Ball, which took place in an entirely fantasy setting. Regarding the traditional 'Asian'-esque appearance and style, it's because it's the standard/typical expectation for a 'period fantasy' setting for the Japanese. It's kind of like why Western fantasy games have typical medieval, European castles even though there's no Europe in such settings. It's all about familiarity.

i see where you're coming from and i totally agree that, pre-internet, you had to draw influence from your surroundings and experiences if you were to create your own fantasy. however, Euro-based fantasies like Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia have white actors who play characters who aren't necessarily labeled 'caucasian' in those fantasies, so what's the problem with getting an Asian actor to play Goku?

 

[Dark Jaguar]

SIDEBAR---seriosly everyone should know this by now-Palin

Seriously... you had to learn it from Sarah Palin first?

 

[DorkyFresh]

Yes, I've corrected myself. Schneider's part asian, yet he's also assumed to be a 100% caucasian. You put up a video and pics of someone who is also multi-racial and would looooove him to be goku. So what I'm asking is what if Chatwin's the same way? Then would you relax? Or is it so important that we do blood tests and stuff before casting any of these movies...

if it turned out that Chatwin was part Asian, my opinion would not change. he does not look Asian, nor does he look racially ambiguous and he certainly doesn't ACT it. it's not that i'm against white actors in general, but i've seen a couple of movies cast white actors as ethnic characters lately (21 and Prince of Persia) and it's becoming kinda frustrating.

Yet, can Jon Foo speak English? Well enough to be the lead in a movie? He might be able to speak Thai pretty well... But all I've heard is that his English is poor.

from wiki..."Jon is Irish-Chinese and grew up in London, England. However, he is currently based in Los Angeles,California." considering he was raised in England and lives primarily in one of USA's biggest cities, i'm pretty sure he speaks English just fine. where did you hear that his English is poor?

How about the fact that there's some (a li'l bit) symmetry between Goku and Chatwin... both are aliens to the culture and enviroments they're in...?

others have tried to make this argument before but i don't buy it. even though Goku is an alien to the world of DB, he was raised in Asian inspired surroundings so he should feel very comfortable with an Asian lifestyle. if the movie were to follow that mold, then Chatwin would probably feel uncomfortable walking around in Asian inspired clothes and doing Asian inspired customs. however, this movie seems to be gelling Asian themes with Western/modern culture (school, clothes, vehicles). so in a sense, Chatwin should feel comfortable in the movie since it's more Westernized, but they had to change Goku's upbringing in order for that to happen.

 

[Dark Jaguar]

Well, if you keep traveling west past Alaska, you wind up in Russia, which is in the 'East'; which would feel counter-intuitive since in order to travel to 'the East', one must travel westward from 'the West'. The norm/default of the U.S. being located in the West is based on maps with London as its longitudinal zero. But if you instead drew a map with Singapore as its center, the U.S. would now be in the East instead. Or in other words, what constitutes 'the West' and 'the East' is entirely reliant on a point of reference in order to have any meaning.



While I dislike divulging personal details online, I'll just say that I'm a Southeast Asian studying in the U.K. Hence, I'm in regular conversation with Asians in the U.K. (mostly students, both local and international) as well as my home country, as well as a few more contacts in Australia; all of whom, by and large haven't really had any complaint about some 'White guy' portraying Goku.

East vs. West is based on the divides of Europe & Asia, as they apply to cultural reference. West of that divide is European/American cultures. East of that divide is Indian/Asian cultures.
And just because you're traveling West into Russia, doesn't mean you're NOT still traveling West. And being as how the world is divided into hemispheres...
Even Asians refer to the Americas as The West.

And that's nice to know not everyone is upset by the white guy playing an anime character.

 

[Dark Jaguar]

if it turned out that Chatwin was part Asian, my opinion would not change. he does not look Asian, nor does he look racially ambiguous and he certainly doesn't ACT it. it's not that i'm against white actors in general, but i've seen a couple of movies cast white actors as ethnic characters lately (21 and Prince of Persia) and it's becoming kinda frustrating.

So by that logic, you should have a problem with Samuel L. Jackson playing Nick Fury...

from wiki..."Jon is Irish-Chinese and grew up in London, England. However, he is currently based in Los Angeles,California." considering he was raised in England and lives primarily in one of USA's biggest cities, i'm pretty sure he speaks English just fine. where did you hear that his English is poor?

I've never heard the guy speak English... but he was good in that Tony Jaa flick...

others have tried to make this argument before but i don't buy it. even though Goku is an alien to the world of DB, he was raised in Asian inspired surroundings so he should feel very comfortable with an Asian lifestyle. if the movie were to follow that mold, then Chatwin would probably feel uncomfortable walking around in Asian inspired clothes and doing Asian inspired customs. however, this movie seems to be gelling Asian themes with Western/modern culture (school, clothes, vehicles). so in a sense, Chatwin should feel comfortable in the movie since it's more Westernized, but they had to change Goku's upbringing in order for that to happen.

But Toriyama had cars, and hovercraft, and spaceships, and schools, and business suits in DB & DBZ & DBGT...
So if Goku was comfortable in an Asian inspired enviroment, then Chatwin shouldn't have any problems getting comfortable in an Asian inspired story(enviroment)... and at least he gets the added benefit of: some of the characters(actors) he's working with actually are Asian... unlike in the Anime where you can't really tell at all...

 

[DorkyFresh]

So by that logic, you should have a problem with Samuel L. Jackson playing Nick Fury...

Nick Fury was depicted as a black guy before Sam Jack played him, not to mention that the black Nick Fury was based on Sam Jack.

But Toriyama had cars, and hovercraft, and spaceships, and schools, and business suits in DB & DBZ & DBGT...

true, but the technology that was in the manga/anime weren't particularly Western inspired. even Gohan's civilian clothes were Chinese. i'm not saying that there wasn't Western influence, but Goku's upbringing was primarily based around Asian ideas and principles.

So if Goku was comfortable in an Asian inspired enviroment, then Chatwin shouldn't have any problems getting comfortable in an Asian inspired story(enviroment)... and at least he gets the added benefit of: some of the characters(actors) he's working with actually are Asian... unlike in the Anime where you can't really tell at all...

hmmm...don't take this the wrong way, i'm not trying to belittle you or anything, but i honestly don't know where you're trying to go with that.....so i'll just say that i disagree.






btw, thank you ALL for being civilized and not resorting to racist or trolling behavior. major kudos to everyone!!!

 

[Dark Jaguar]

Nick Fury was depicted as a black guy before Sam Jack played him, not to mention that the black Nick Fury was based on Sam Jack.

Nick Fury was white originally. Regardless of how he has been depicted in the comics recently (maybe intentionally by Marvel to help tempt Mr. Jackson to being inclined to do the role...)

I'm glad Samuel L. Jackson is playing Nick Fury. But Nick Fury was a white character, always will be in my mind. So if we're all going to be ok with that, then by that very same logic we should be ok with Goku being portrayed by a white guy...

true, but the technology that was in the manga/anime weren't particularly Western inspired. even Gohan's civilian clothes were Chinese. i'm not saying that there wasn't Western influence, but Goku's upbringing was primarily based around Asian ideas and principles.

Such as... what?? That he MUST learn martial arts? What things is he taught that belong solely to Asian culture?
So his clothes are of Asian styling, and he learns martial arts... nothing of this says he MUST be Asian... only that his enviroment is of Asian design.

hmmm...don't take this the wrong way, i'm not trying to belittle you or anything, but i honestly don't know where you're trying to go with that.....so i'll just say that i disagree.

no offense taken. tricky subject to explain without it getting confusing, so i'll just leave that one alone.




btw, thank you ALL for being civilized and not resorting to racist or trolling behavior. major kudos to everyone!!![/quote]

 

[The Kid]

if it turned out that Chatwin was part Asian, my opinion would not change. he does not look Asian, nor does he look racially ambiguous and he certainly doesn't ACT it. it's not that i'm against white actors in general, but i've seen a couple of movies cast white actors as ethnic characters lately (21 and Prince of Persia) and it's becoming kinda frustrating

Now you're switching from wanting him to have asian genetics to having asian characteristics instead? Jesus...

Those two movies are probably cast poorly and won't be well received anyway... Though I do know the man himself was perfectly fine with being cast as a different ethnicity for 21 since it wasn't a documentary...

Neither is dragonball and it's obvious they're casting goku based on looks since there's a special novelty to having a living breathing goku who is an extremely difficult role to cast because most people don't have chatwin's facial structure. Does hollywood shaft certain races? Yes, absolutely, but come on man, it's clear as crystal this isn't one of those cases.

 

[huzzah]

Such as... what?? That he MUST learn martial arts? What things is he taught that belong solely to Asian culture?
So his clothes are of Asian styling, and he learns martial arts... nothing of this says he MUST be Asian... only that his enviroment is of Asian design.

And Malcom X will be played by Brad Pitt t:

Strangely enough in the manga etc grandpa Gohan gives him an Asian name...because he grew up an Asian enviroment??

So when THIS Goku goes to high school and the kids ask him "How is it that a white dude that has grown up in a Western environment has an Asian name?".

"Erm, Erm, Erm...I'll leave that for Fox to explain".