Homecoming "The Sinister Six" - How would it play out?

[Spider-knight]

If they were to do an origin for any members, I'd expect them to definitely cover Doc Ock and Kraven.
I'm beginning to think that Mysterio may not be the right choice for the S6, for budgeting reasons and I think the team would be too overpowered. Chameleon may work best instead and it means they wouldn't really have to do an origin for him either.

Agreed. Chameleon is a spy and seems very skillful. I do hope he's in the film instead of mysterio.

 

[spider-neil]

Yes, they do. Villains with super powers need origins to make them more developed 3 dimensional characters. It would be stupid to do villains like Dr. Octopus, just have him appear as a mad scientist with metal arms attached to him, and not show him as Otto Octavius and how he came to be that way.

Only rare certain comic book villains work without origins like the Joker.

Origins will only bog the movie down and add very little for the screen time it will take up.

Look at Mysterio, all I care about is the mystery of the character and practical effects he uses to fool the audience, I couldn't give a **** what made him decide to take up crime. Completely removes the mystery of the character.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Origins will only bog the movie down and add very little for the screen time it will take up.

No they won't. They'll enhance the movie by enhancing the characters with solid development from their origins.

Look at Mysterio, all I care about is the mystery of the character and practical effects he uses to fool the audience, I couldn't give a **** what made him decide to take up crime. Completely removes the mystery of the character.

Mysterio is not a mystery character. He had an origin in his very first appearance. So it can't ruin his character when he was never a mystery.

 

[spider-neil]

No they won't. They'll enhance the movie by enhancing the characters with solid development from their origins.



Mysterio is not a mystery character. He had an origin in his very first appearance. So it can't ruin his character when he was never a mystery.

We're going to have to disagree on this one but argubly the best CBM trilogy, TDK, doesn't have a origin with the exception of Bane and TDKR is (imho) the weakest of the Batman trilogy. BB and TDK didn't need villain origins and that doesn't have to juggle several villains at once.

 

[Perry9]

We're going to have to disagree on this one but argubly the best CBM trilogy, TDK, doesn't have a origin with the exception of Bane and TDKR is (imho) the weakest of the Batman trilogy. BB and TDK didn't need villain origins and that doesn't have to juggle several villains at once.

Look, i totally agree that we don't need an origin, but one of the breakthroughs that Stan Lee made with Spider-man was to humanize the villains. In many cases, he made us feel sorry for them, because of the terrible things that happened to these simple people that made them evil. I'm not sure how Drew will make us care for these characters (because as you occasionally say, "you need to make the GA care") if he doesn't show us their human side first.

 

[spider-neil]

Look, i totally agree that we don't need an origin, but one of the breakthroughs that Stan Lee made with Spider-man was to humanize the villains. In many cases, he made us feel sorry for them, because of the terrible things that happened to these simple people that made them evil. I'm not sure how Drew will make us care for these characters (because as you occasionally say, "you need to make the GA care") if he doesn't show us their human side first.

So solo movies, sure. For an ensemble it becomes problematic. Imagine origins for all of Usual Suspect characters, that wouldn't hurt the movie at all, would it?

 

[Perry9]

So solo movies, sure. For an ensemble it becomes problematic. Imagine origins for all of Usual Suspect characters, that wouldn't hurt the movie at all, would it?

Ha, great movie.

Anyway, as i said, i agree with you and i was only expressing my skepticism for the film.

One other thing that bugs me is the plot. Will it be just Doc Ock or Harry recruiting the rest to kill Spider-man? That sounds too simple. Of course, maybe we need to return to simpler stories. It is generally accepted that the original films have a more well constructed plot, despite the fact that they are sillier. TASM 1 and 2 (especially 2) complicated the plot and as a result, it didn't know what kind of film it wanted to be. I think that if they try to give the SS a purpose other than killing Spider-man, that will still result in a messed up story. Someone said that it's going to be like Ocean's 11 (don't take my word for it, not sure if it's a rumor, look it up on the general discussion thread).

I really hope it turns out good.

 

[The Joker]

We're going to have to disagree on this one but argubly the best CBM trilogy, TDK, doesn't have a origin with the exception of Bane and TDKR is (imho) the weakest of the Batman trilogy. BB and TDK didn't need villain origins and that doesn't have to juggle several villains at once.

Bane, Two Face, and Ra's all got origins and back stories. Scarecrow was such a minor villain. The Joker didn't need one. It's the nature of his character to have no defining back story. He is a mystery.

Part of what makes Spider-Man's villains so great is that we know who they are and how they came to be. As someone else mentioned Stan Lee humanized them and made them real people like Spider-Man who got super powers and chose a particular path. They are not just super powered crazies who pop up out of the blue and wreak havoc. It's already a mistake to make movie centered around a team of super villains, but the very least that needs to be done is to do origins for the ones who have not had any in the previous movies in order to make them a solid foundation for being these extraordinary characters.

 

[Spider-knight]

Bane, Two Face, and Ra's all got origins and backstories. Scarecrow was such a minor villain.

you know, if nolan's trilogy would've continued i would've loved to see what his riddler would be like especially his hugo strange. back then i read that edward norton and robin williams were suppose to be casted as riddler and strange

 

[UltimateWebhead]

No they won't. They'll enhance the movie by enhancing the characters with solid development from their origins.



Mysterio is not a mystery character. He had an origin in his very first appearance. So it can't ruin his character when he was never a mystery.

I agree that villains like Ock, Vulture, and Mysterio need to have their origins told. We need to gain some depth about each of these characters.

But that's also a problem that I see for the movie. We potentially have 3 of the 6 villains already introduced. So that would mean we'd need 3 origin stories for one movie. They don't exactly have a stellar track record for handling movies with more than one villain origin.

 

[spider-neil]

Bane, Two Face, and Ra's all got origins and back stories. Scarecrow was such a minor villain. The Joker didn't need one. It's the nature of his character to have no defining back story. He is a mystery.

Part of what makes Spider-Man's villains so great is that we know who they are and how they came to be. As someone else mentioned Stan Lee humanized them and made them real people like Spider-Man who got super powers and chose a particular path. They are not just super powered crazies who pop up out of the blue and wreak havoc. It's already a mistake to make movie centered around a team of super villains, but the very least that needs to be done is to do origins for the ones who have not had any in the previous movies in order to make them a solid foundation for being these extraordinary characters.

Two-Face happened over the course of the movie and frankly his change was rushed and forced for the 3rd act. Ra's back story is told rather than shown and Bane's back story was a Scooby Doo reveal.

 

[spider-neil]

Just watched Guardians. Brand new characters that the General audience don't know from Adam and guess what, no origins.

 

[spiderman2]

Two-Face happened over the course of the movie and frankly his change was rushed and forced for the 3rd act. Ra's back story is told rather than shown and Bane's back story was a Scooby Doo reveal.

Scooby doo reveal lol. I do agree about two face did fell force has he still semed like he was to good to really do what he started to do.

 

[spider-neil]

After the movie I bet if the audience were asked, 'Do you care where, Rocket, Drax, Gamora and Grote were from?' I wonder if what the answer would be? Especially if they enjoyed the movie.

 

[LizardMan07]

I didn't know the guardians were villians!

 

[The Joker]

Two-Face happened over the course of the movie and frankly his change was rushed and forced for the 3rd act.

Your personal opinion of the quality of it is irrelevant. The fact is the whole movie was a build up to Dent becoming Two Face. He got an origin. We saw him go from Harvey Dent to Two Face after being betrayed by people he trusted, his face mutilated, the woman he loves murdered, and his mind further twisted up by the Joker. There's good people who have gone crazy in real life for less than half of something like that. More believable than motives ala I want to turn everyone into lizards because they're lost lonely souls, I think Spider-Man is my best friend even though we only met for 20 seconds once but I think he betrayed me so I must kill him, I am slowly dying but I took a deux ex machina secret Goblin serum that has cured me and makes me want to kill Spider-Man and his gf because he wouldn't give me his untested blood, and I want to make a super villain team.

Ra's back story is told rather than shown and Bane's back story was a Scooby Doo reveal.

Yeah Ra's back story was told in the first movie because it was basically simplistic. He lost his wife, and he joined the League of Shadows to fight injustices like that. Easy understandable origin. Not to mention more was shown of his back story in the third movie. Tied in with Bane's and Talia's.

He's not a character like Doc Ock, Vulture etc who needs a back story to show how reputable scientists, engineers like them etc go from being what they were to super powered villains. Ra's Al Ghul doesn't have an Otto Octavius or Adrian Toomes like back story that needs to be shown.

Bane's was no Scooby Doo reveal. We knew his origin early on in the movie. The only twist was he wasn't actually the kid who escaped the pit. Talia was. Everything else about Bane being a prisoner in the pit, getting trained and excommunicated by the League was all true.

Just watched Guardians. Brand new characters that the General audience don't know from Adam and guess what, no origins.

Spoiler

The movie opens with Starlord's back story, and brings in characters throughout the movie connected to his past like like Yondu, and they've set up a whole story with his father, too. Rocket is a talking raccoon who was made in a lab. As if that warrants an origin story. Groot is a talking tree who says the same three words for the whole movie. Gamora's relationship with her sister, Ronan, and Thanos is explored throughout the movie. Same with Drax, and his vendetta to get revenge on Ronan for killing his family. He's a father looking for revenge for the loss of his family. That's a most basic concept and doesn't need an origin story to understand the character. It's human and understandable, and not remotely equatable to needing to show why scientists and engineers go from good guys to super powered bad guys.

 

[spider-neil]

If there is a 'point of view character' (think Wolverine in X-Men or Neo in Matrix) then sure, that guy will probably get an origin. The other 5 don't need one.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

Def gotta take notes from Guardians. Executed a fine movie w/ unfamiliar characters that you fall in love with quickly.

 

[Oscorp]

Are we supposed to fall in love with villains who are bound to become antagonists though?

 

[Spider-knight]

People always fall for villains. And if they have something interesting to them in terms of the story and execution it would be great

 

[spiderral]

I've just had some more ideas on how Sony can approach the spin-off/TASM films:

THE SINISTER SIX (2016):

The film has a dark tone, focusing on the Sinister Six being formed and Peter still coping with Gwen’s death and feeling guilt-ridden about Uncle Ben and Capt. Stacy.
The film introduces the symbiote, used and modified by the Goblin (with the help of Otto) as a weapon, the symbiote actually being a member of the S6 (waiting for the perfect host).
Otto Octavius and Peter are the protagonists are the film, following the two characters’ descent into darkness as Otto is driven to madness by the Goblin, becoming Doc Ock and working in the S6, and Peter coming across the symbiote and being consumed by it.
Spider-Man has a very minimal appearance in the film apart from when he defeats most of the S6 with the symbiote in a grand and epic climax, leaving only Kraven and Vulture who have managed to escape. The film ends with Peter killing the Goblin.

BLACK CAT (2017):

The solo Black Cat film sees her fighting off The Vulture who, after the S6, takes a backseat in crime and works with the mob.
Cat takes Spider-Man's place, fighting small crimes while he disappears after getting the symbiote, during and after the events of “The Sinister Six".

THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 3 (2018):

Spider-Man is more "Venom-like" than ever when donning the symbiote, unable to separate from it, like a drug addict.
While it was already done in SM3, Spider-Man’s greatest battle should be with himself, being very animalistic and ruthless in TASM3, more “beast” than “man” and Peter struggling to find himself again (paralleling the theme in TASM1).
Kraven is still on the loose in NYC and is out to hunt Spider-Man and kill him, now seeing him as a threat and dangerous, after seeing him kill the Goblin.
Cat believes she can save Spider-Man from the symbiote and is willing to help him but has to face Kraven and hunt him down too. Spider-Man is also aware that Kraven is onto him and prepared for Kraven, luring him into his own traps.
Cat has to face both Spider-Man and Kraven, stopping an unstable Spider-Man from also potentially killing Kraven.
Cat is eventually successful and helps Peter to escape from the symbiote, leading into the Venom solo movie where Eddie Brock will stumble across it!

The end.

I'd say that the only problem with these ideas is that THE S6 are quickly defeated in their only film by Spider-Man himself and people would confuse The S6 movie for TASM3. The symbiote storyline may also drag on for too long across two films, making the general audience bored of it and making them unlikely to see a solo Venom film.

 

[spiderral]

A great idea from the TASM3 forums:

What if the opening of ASM3 we continue where we left off.Spidey is fighting Rhino,but then the other five members of The Sinister Six show up.

The S6 can be developed in their own solo film, really showing how dangerous they are and giving them good motivations and then have them suddenly and unexpectedly show up at the start of TASM3. Imagine a very tense and action packed introduction for TASM3 where Spider-Man is forced to suddenly go up against multiple villains; something we haven't had in a Spider-Man film before. It will give the chance for TASM3 to break away from being a typical Spider-Man film and being something different to what we've seen before, unpredictable in that way.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

what do you mean by "Spider-man kills the Goblin"?

I mean, I don't want Spider-man to outright murder anyone, even with the symbiote

 

[spiderral]

what do you mean by "Spider-man kills the Goblin"?

I mean, I don't want Spider-man to outright murder anyone, even with the symbiote

I know it's not something that Spider-Man would do but being unstable with the symbiote and grieving for Gwen might lead him to do that. Who knows?

Maybe it would be best if he didn't do that or, just didn't save the Goblin from falling his to death, similar to Batman and Ra's at the end of BBegins.

 

[SymbioticToxin]

I want this movie to kind of be set up like an anthology. It starts off with Harry, or the Gentleman, looking at files for the people chosen for the Sinister Six. Then it'd go into their backgrounds, what made them who they are and how they came to the attention of Harry. Some of them would already have the important aspects of their personas, like Vulture has his wings and Ock has his tentacles. The have Oscorp give them updated versions of these things, but maybe Ock would fix the arms to his specifications.