Homecoming The Sinister Six Thread

[degraves93]

Giamatti is the reason why I had high expectations for Rhino, and I think that's why so many people were thoroughly disappointed. The same can be said for the way they used Chris Cooper.

On paper, the cast has been amazing, but the way the characters have been written has been sub par.

Who knows, though. I'm still not ruling out Goddard turning things around.

And you shouldn't, if there's anyone qualified to do just that, it's him.

As for Rhino, as I've said, he was written in the only way that made sense for the film, which was to be a dim-witted brawler for Spidey to subdue. Giamatti said even before the film was released that he enjoyed playing a character that was over the top and hammy, and that's what we got. I enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to see it possibly expanded upon in S6. When Cooper was cast I expected Norman to be a much larger role, possibly even becoming the Goblin in the end, but I wasn't disappointed with what we got instead. DeHaan's more than capable of playing that role, and, again, I can't wait to see him do more with it later.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Hope we get some casting soon

 

[spider-neil]

He is one of the villains I would least like to see in a spider man movie. I think if he is in a sm movie it has to be with another villain. I would rather see venom, carnego, morbis, hydor man, all before him.

Mysterio can frame Spider-Man by artificially recreating Spider-Man's powers. Also Mysterio' illusions are varied and complex. Mysterio doesn't need to share the spotlight with any other villain.

 

[Super Jim]

^ I believe it's safe to say that we're at a point where you need to have at least a primary and a secondary villain.

In TASM2 they kind of went too far with one primary (Electro) and two secondary (Goblin and Rhino).

Personally, I do believe that Mysterio could be the main focus of a movie, but a secondary villain would be needed. They don't necessarily need to be connected, though it helps if they are.

For example, I really like the idea of using Kraven as a main villain, and Cameleon (his brother) as the secondary. So, who could be a secondary villain in a Spiderman movie that used Mysterio as the main?

 

[degraves93]

^ I believe it's safe to say that we're at a point where you need to have at least a primary and a secondary villain.

In TASM2 they kind of went too far with one primary (Electro) and two secondary (Goblin and Rhino).

Personally, I do believe that Mysterio could be the main focus of a movie, but a secondary villain would be needed. They don't necessarily need to be connected, though it helps if they are.

For example, I really like the idea of using Kraven as a main villain, and Cameleon (his brother) as the secondary. So, who could be a secondary villain in a Spiderman movie that used Mysterio as the main?

Rhino barely qualifies as a secondary though. Mysterio should be the main focus of TASM3, maybe with Kraven as a secondary. Mysterio could bring hallucinations of Gwen, Captain Stacy and Uncle Ben to torture Peter, and Kraven would provide for kick ass action sequences. I remember Webb expressing significant interest in both of them.

 

[spiderral]

I don't mind Mysterio and Kraven together but to win back fans' trust, they should just try to stick to one villain for a more focused story and for a better film.
Still, if they can work Mysterio and Kraven together into a coherent script where they're both beneficial to the story and to each other then I'd be cool with the two of them.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I don't mind Mysterio and Kraven together but to win back fans' trust, they should just try to stick to one villain for a more focused story and for a better film.
Still, if they can work Mysterio and Kraven together into a coherent script where they're both beneficial to the story and to each other then I'd be cool with the two of them.

I actually had a pretty good Mysterio/Kraven plot written for ASM3 before it was pushed back. Now, neither of them would be able to appear in Sinister 6 if they're to be the main villains of TASM3. So I'd rather use Mysterio on the 6 and save Kraven for the next solo villain.

 

[Super Jim]

I've always felt that Mysterio and Kraven are both good enough to be lead villains on their own. Either could be the primary villain, and I would hate to see one take away from the other, which would have to happen if put into the same film.

I believe there are better choices for a secondary villain for either Mysterio or Kraven.

For Kraven his half-brother, the Cameleon, could be used perfectly.

For Mysterio, I'm not sure who could work. Maybe Sin-Eater, or Smythe? Maybe Black Cat could take the lesser threat role, while the main focus of the villainry goes to Mysterio...

Oh, just thought of a connection. If it was Quinten Beck who becomes Mysterio, and he is working on Broadway, maybe this is how you bring in MJ. Not as a love interest yet, just as someone who is helped by Spiderman or Peter. Maybe she's an understudy or something and her life is put in danger because of the special effects that goes bad, which ultimately causes Beck to get fired. That gives him the revenge motive, and introduces Peter/Spiderman to MJ...

I'm sure that that could be played around with, and using Black Cat as kind of a secondary "villain" gives the majority of the focus to Mysterio, which giving us some of the fun, playful Black Cat/Spider stuff...

 

[Venom'sDad]

^Why would you need Spider-Man for that?

 

[W/ Great Power]

And you shouldn't, if there's anyone qualified to do just that, it's him.

As for Rhino, as I've said, he was written in the only way that made sense for the film, which was to be a dim-witted brawler for Spidey to subdue. Giamatti said even before the film was released that he enjoyed playing a character that was over the top and hammy, and that's what we got. I enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to see it possibly expanded upon in S6. When Cooper was cast I expected Norman to be a much larger role, possibly even becoming the Goblin in the end, but I wasn't disappointed with what we got instead. DeHaan's more than capable of playing that role, and, again, I can't wait to see him do more with it later.

I remember what Giamatti said before the film's release, and I know exactly the way they intended on portraying him. With that being said, that's where the intuition of good producers and writers come in. That's where they draw the line and get a feel for what will transition onto the big screen and bode well with the general audience, even if comic book fans understand the character. Everything from the comics doesn't always translate well into movies, and that's why some stories are better left "untold," which was ironically Sony's selling point for the series.

I thought Cooper would be Goblin and the one to eventually kill Gwen. Even though I was okay with DeHaan's Goblin and thoroughly impressed by his acting, I just can't see how a fan would be satisfied with the little time Cooper got. Unfortunately, now the only way to see more him is the direction they would go of basically bringing him back from the dead, which I really don't want to see happen. They should have left Rhino out of TASM2 and given that time to either Harry and Peter's friendship, or Harry and Norman's conflicts.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I remember what Giamatti said before the film's release, and I know exactly the way they intended on portraying him. With that being said, that's where the intuition of good producers and writers come in. That's where they draw the line and get a feel for what will transition onto the big screen and bode well with the general audience, even if comic book fans understand the character. Everything from the comics doesn't always translate well into movies, and that's why some stories are better left "untold," which was ironically Sony's selling point for the series.

I thought Cooper would be Goblin and the one to eventually kill Gwen. Even though I was okay with DeHaan's Goblin and thoroughly impressed by his acting, I just can't see how a fan would be satisfied with the little time Cooper got. Unfortunately, now the only way to see more him is the direction they would go of basically bringing him back from the dead, which I really don't want to see happen. They should have left Rhino out of TASM2 and given that time to either Harry and Peter's friendship, or Harry and his Norman's conflicts.

Exactly. Harry's transition went by way too fast, and it reeks of Avi and co. making another Venom-style executive mandate.

 

[Venom'sDad]

I don't think Norman is dead....think it was faked........keeping think about the head and Venom Project.

 

[spider-neil]

They should have left Rhino out of TASM2 and given that time to either Harry and Peter's friendship, or Harry and his Norman's conflicts.

Agreed.

 

[JOE]

What was his total screen time? 5 minutes, maybe less? That wouldn't have saved the movie. Whatever powerful scene they were going for at the end to show Spidey coming out of the shadows needed Rhino in it.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Over-the-top acting, visual designs, etc. aside; Aleksei/Rhino served his purpose of being a great way to bookend the movie. Maybe the scenes could have been written differently or improved and the accent toned down but it accomplished what was intended. Removing Rhino from the movie wouldn't have changed anything with regards to the clumsy writing for the other characters.

 

[Super Jim]

^Why would you need Spider-Man for that?

Because... it's... a... Spiderman... movie...!

Not sure what you're really asking...

 

[spiderral]

Over-the-top acting, visual designs, etc. aside; Aleksei/Rhino served his purpose of being a great way to bookend the movie. Maybe the scenes could have been written differently or improved and the accent toned down but it accomplished what was intended. Removing Rhino from the movie wouldn't have changed anything with regards to the clumsy writing for the other characters.

Exactly this.

 

[The Villain]

^ I believe it's safe to say that we're at a point where you need to have at least a primary and a secondary villain.

In TASM2 they kind of went too far with one primary (Electro) and two secondary (Goblin and Rhino).

Personally, I do believe that Mysterio could be the main focus of a movie, but a secondary villain would be needed. They don't necessarily need to be connected, though it helps if they are.

For example, I really like the idea of using Kraven as a main villain, and Cameleon (his brother) as the secondary. So, who could be a secondary villain in a Spiderman movie that used Mysterio as the main?

Hammerhead would be my pick but I think some folk would prefer Shocker. t:

 

[Super Jim]

I've said it before, Shocker is just a watered-down Electro.

I've written it in a thread I started that Sony should do a tv show titled Spiderman: The DB, which focuses on reporters from the Daily Bugle, and police officers, etc. The mobster type criminals would be perfect in something like this, and Hammerhead would fit right in.

Even someone like Shocker could be used, since it's kind of a "lesser" villain (as compared to say Electro). So many good stories could be expanded in a tv series of this nature!

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I like it. Simply this:

- Make Mysterio the main villain.
- Make it Quinten Beck, a special effects guy from Broadway.
- Have him get fired because his equipment causes a catastrphe.
- Have MJ introduced through this (as an understudy on Broadway).
- Have Peter meet her after Spiderman saves her. Something like this... Peter is taking pictures for the DB on the release of this new Broadway play. The special effects causes a fire and MJ the understudy gets trapped. Spiderman saves her. After she is safe Peter changes back to Peter and is taking pictures of the scene when he meets MJ. Go from there...
- Have Black Cat as an early "villain" who gets away after Spiderman becomes distrcted by her sexuality/innuendos.
- Have them meet back up later where she is following him. More flirtation stuff.
- Main focus on Mysterio, with the Black Cat fun, and Oscorp stuff setting the stage for TASM4.

Would we want to see Mysterio as part of the Six?

 

[degraves93]

I've said it before, Shocker is just a watered-down Electro.

I've written it in a thread I started that Sony should do a tv show titled Spiderman: The DB, which focuses on reporters from the Daily Bugle, and police officers, etc. The mobster type criminals would be perfect in something like this, and Hammerhead would fit right in.

Even someone like Shocker could be used, since it's kind of a "lesser" villain (as compared to say Electro). So many good stories could be expanded in a tv series of this nature!

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I like it. Simply this:

- Make Mysterio the main villain.
- Make it Quinten Beck, a special effects guy from Broadway.
- Have him get fired because his equipment causes a catastrphe.
- Have MJ introduced through this (as an understudy on Broadway).
- Have Peter meet her after Spiderman saves her. Something like this... Peter is taking pictures for the DB on the release of this new Broadway play. The special effects causes a fire and MJ the understudy gets trapped. Spiderman saves her. After she is safe Peter changes back to Peter and is taking pictures of the scene when he meets MJ. Go from there...
- Have Black Cat as an early "villain" who gets away after Spiderman becomes distrcted by her sexuality/innuendos.
- Have them meet back up later where she is following him. More flirtation stuff.
- Main focus on Mysterio, with the Black Cat fun, and Oscorp stuff setting the stage for TASM4.

Would we want to see Mysterio as part of the Six?

I REALLY want to see Mysterio introduced sooner rather than later, he's one of my favorite Spidey villains of all time, and I'm surprised he hasn't been used already, so I would love to see him introduced in S6, with Tom Waits playing him (Though I doubt he'll do it). That being said, there's so much you can do with his character that having him with five other villains could make him seem underused.

 

[W/ Great Power]

I don't think Norman is dead....think it was faked........keeping think about the head and Venom Project.

I think he's alive, too. I meant that bringing him back will go against everyone's perception that he was dead. I just can't see them making a coherent storyline with his head somehow being preserved in Oscorp.

It's just one of those things that I can't envision working out too well, since he was only mentioned in TASM1 and briefly shown in TASM2.

What was his total screen time? 5 minutes, maybe less? That wouldn't have saved the movie. Whatever powerful scene they were going for at the end to show Spidey coming out of the shadows needed Rhino in it.

i think the last scene could have very well been executed without Rhino.

Imagine some kind of explosion in NYC, people panicking, sort of like the AoU trailer. We see Peter looking out his window and then down at his mask, contemplating the decision of his return.

Then the scene switches to the city and we see a burning building, or something of the sort. We see, from Spidey's point of view in slow motion (along the lines of the view we got in the beginning of TASM2), people looking up at him and pointing. The movie could end with a shot of Spidey swinging, the way we saw in TASM1.

The perpetrators of the attack on the city could be thugs hired by the S6 to attract Spidey's attention. This would be revealed in the spinoff, of course, but it's so much better than wasting one of the members of the S6 and ending the movie on him about to take a blow from Spidey. Additionally, I don't know if it strikes as a little weak to anyone, but a man in a top of the line military mech suit is assumably going to take a major blow by a sewer lid being swung at him. Really?

This makes me sound like I hate the movie, but the last scene was so out of place for me.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

The average sewer cover weighs approx 250-300 lbs. Put some momentum behind one of those things along with the force from a super-powered guy slingin' it and yeah, I could see it doing a decent amount of damage. Even against a military grade suit of armor.

 

[SpideyK]

True.

Spidey would, for lack of better words, **** **** up.

 

[W/ Great Power]

The average sewer cover weighs approx 250-300 lbs. Put some momentum behind one of those things along with the force from a super-powered guy slingin' it and yeah, I could see it doing a decent amount of damage. Even against a military grade suit of armor.

I suppose we'll have to see how much damage it does, but I still think it was a poor cliff-hanger. They could have gone with what I mentioned above and have let Goddard take care of the villains.

Also, let's not forget the fact that the sewer lid was knocking missiles out of the way. I know we're not going for realism in superhero films, but that's crossing the line a bit.

 

[degraves93]

How do you think Mysterio should be characterized? I like him as a flamboyant egotist with a chip on his shoulder, but does anyone have any other ideas?