The Strongest In The Marvel Universe?

[Paradox1]

Surfers pretty bad ass for a man of peace

 

[Wylie Times]

The Hulk.

You don't take the one thing a character has going for him. That'd be like the Flash not being the fastest there is.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

And Thor has beaten the Surfer a couple times, so...

It is frustratingly confusing, i'll give you that, but if I were a betting man, i'd bet on Surfer beating Thor in a regular match-up.

Agreed. I remember ppl trying to use that Planet Hulk fight awhile back to prove Hulk > Surfer, but that's really not how the fight went. Surfer was weakened, and never used (or possibly was even able to) other powers, plus he was mind controlled. He still was kicking around Hulk and the Warbound. It wasn't until they double teamed him that they got the upperhand. Even at that, Surfer just stood up and extended a hand in thanks before Hulk cheap shot him. Surfer still got up after that as well.

Exactly, the ONLY time Hulk was able to get near him was when they double-teamed him or took him by surprise, The Surfer was annihilating BOTH Hulk AND The Warbound before that, with NO problems.

I'm pretty sure the obedience disk cut him off from the Power Cosmic. So he was operating at a tiny fraction of his power.

Not to mention, even when the disc was destroyed, Surfer was still weakened by the portal/atmosphere, which he stated in the story just before he left. The fact that the Surfer, weakened by 2 strong factors, was still able to beat the **** out of Hulk and The Warbound just shows the Hulk doesnt come close to the power of the Surfer. And I am a BIG Hulk fan.

The Hulk.

You don't take the one thing a character has going for him. That'd be like the Flash not being the fastest there is.

Yet that strength doesnt count for much when he comes up against the likes of Silver Surfer, etc.

 

[tricon7]

Well, the other day I saw a clip of the "Hulk vs. Thor" animation just released. I was looking forward to seeing it, as I'm a big Thor fan and wanted to see him kick some Hulk butt, or at least hold his own with the big green lug.

To say I was shockingly surprised would be a huge understatement. The clip I saw showed the Hulk pound Thor into oblivion. I can't imagine a comic writer have one superhero defeat another so thoroughly and completely than the Hulk did to Thor. At one point I though the Hulk had killed him. Thor lay motionless and sprawled in the dirt while the Hulk continued to mercilessly beat him while unconscious to a bloody pulp. Even lightweight Spiderman would have had a better showing than Thor did here, and I don't recall anyone ever being beaten as badly by the Hulk - much less the mighty Thor. Is this the best Asgard has to defend it? Why don't they just send out Balder to fight him? He couldn't possibly do any worse. And the ridiculous thing is that the advertisement for this video stated something like "Thor takes on the only person who can match his might - the Incredbile Hulk!" Who do they think they're kidding?! Isn't this false advertising?

I know there was a recent comic series in the past few months where the Hulk beat the !#$*! out of Thor, then used his hammer to fly to the moon(!) and drop his carcass there. Now - with this recent demolition of Thor - it certainly looks like the Movers and Shakers at Marvel have decided that they want the Hulk to be King at Marvel. The fact that for decades the Hulk and Thor have always tied to be strongest has been tossed in the trash can. I imagine that soon, the Hulk will be taking on Galactus for most powerful. Galactus' superior mental abilities will eventually be overcome by the Hulk's "the madder he gets the stronger he gets" inevitability. Then it's on to the Living Tribunal.

It used to be that Thor was a match for the Hulk in hand-to-hand combat. Then there was a shift to where the Hulk could beat him in sheer strength, but Thor's hammer would even things out. Now, neither his strength nor his hammer make the slightest bit of difference; the Hulk beats the ever-lovin' snot out of Thor no matter what. The Hulk is far and away the strongest chararcter in the Marvel universe now, thanks to the silver screen, TV series, his money-making ability, and the Marvel writers who have all jumped on the pro-Hulk bandwagon.

I can only look back to my old comic back-issues and remember when Thor could hold his own and who used to be at the top of the Marvel strength pyramid. When he was more than just a muscle-bound punching bag who could survive a devastating beating.

I just hope when the big-budget Avengers movie comes out in 2011, the Hulk doesn't annihilate Thor too badly.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Another Thor fan's hopes and dreams crushed because Marvel refuses to respect their favorite character. I know the feeling well.

 

[Paradox1]

Maybe and I don't believe I'm gonna say this but maybe...... hollywood could bring some sense to the big screen adaption When the Hulk and Thor actually face off.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You know, I don't even mind if the Hulk beats Thor. But over the years he's gone from eking out a victory here and there to utterly dominating Thor every goddamn time. If the Hulk beats Thor--which should by no means be a sure thing, since that makes their "rivalry" totally meaningless and boring--it should be at the end of a long battle with the Hulk almost as broken, battered, and bloody as Thor himself is.

 

[CBG]

If it's any consolation, Hulk "jobbed" to Iron Man in Mighty Avengers.

 

[piccolo]

You know, I don't even mind if the Hulk beats Thor. But over the years he's gone from eking out a victory here and there to utterly dominating Thor every goddamn time. If the Hulk beats Thor--which should by no means be a sure thing, since that makes their "rivalry" totally meaningless and boring--it should be at the end of a long battle with the Hulk almost as broken, battered, and bloody as Thor himself is.

I feel like in a strength vs. strength battle, Hulk should always come off as somewhat dominating of Thor. Strength is his thing. And Thor is so proud he'll meet Hulk on his own terms.

Thor's hammer should be the equalizer. It has so many powers that he could probably easily defeat Hulk if he decided to be "cheap". I think the status quo works as it is. We know Thor is capable of beating Hulk, but his warrior god creeds and Hulk's own limitations work toward him wanting to prove himself physically. IMO he should be beat down, and then start to utilize mjolnir to regain an advantage.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's just a convenient excuse writers use to mollify Thor fans when the Hulk beats him for the billionth time. A warrior's goal is to defeat his enemy. All the chivalrous bulls*** is just that: bulls***.

If it's any consolation, Hulk "jobbed" to Iron Man in Mighty Avengers.

Not really. The Hulk's lost to plenty of people. His losses to Thor have just been rarer and rarer. At this point, their rivalry's not even fun anymore because everyone knows the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

 

[Vanguard07]

Yeah the "warrior's honor" excuse is bull. Thor's been around long enough to know that if you're in a fight, you fight with everything you've got.
In life there's no such thing as a fair fight. There's no point in pretending otherwise.

 

[piccolo]

Actually I think the honor thing makes sense and fits with thors character. It makes sense for a warrior to want to test himself in that manner, especially when most of their life revolves around battle. Look how much Hercules relishes fighting, he calls it "the Gift". Thor wants a test for himself, not an easy out by teleporting Hulk to the land of the Mindless ones or godblasting him or something.

Can see how it doesnt work for you guys, but I like it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That might make sense if Thor acted like he were reveling in his fights with the Hulk, but he usually doesn't. More often than not, he's only fighting the Hulk in the first place because the big oaf is tearing up half a city and someone needs to stop him. I don't know what kind of warriors you're talking about, but most of the ones who fancy themselves defenders of the innocent wouldn't test themselves in a prolonged battle that could endanger those same innocents if they had a much more efficient way of dealing with the problem.

 

[piccolo]

I don't know what kind of warriors you're talking about, but most of the ones who fancy themselves defenders of the innocent wouldn't test themselves in a prolonged battle that could endanger those same innocents if they had a much more efficient way of dealing with the problem.

I honestly dont think he things things through that far.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Which brings us back to the problem: Thor becomes really stupid every time he fights the Hulk.

 

[Vanguard07]

I've known a fair number professional fighters of various different kinds and I've known a number of people in the military who've seen combat.

The pro fighters usually like fighting, the soldiers usually dont but in both cases, when a fight starts nobody's actually stupid enough to toy around with their opponents or try to fight fair.
You don't see highly trained, well armed american soldiers giving their enemies higher quality equipment, or using throwback equipment themselves to balance things out.

Every time there's violence, anyone who isnt ******ed or insane's objective is to end the violence as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I dont consider Thor ******ed OR insane so why should it make sense for him to act like it?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The one exception to that in comics would be to pull punches in order to preserve an opponent's life, but even that doesn't make sense in a fight against the Hulk because experience has taught pretty much everyone who's heard of him that he can take basically anything you throw at him. Much like Darkseid with Superman, the Hulk should be one of the very select few characters against whom Thor should completely cut loose.

 

[piccolo]

I'd imagine ancient Norse culture, especially a fictitious one, differs a little from modern battle protocols. Asgardians are immortal and have lived for thousands of years. Fighting is pretty much the only form of entertainment that they have. And thats honestly what it is to them in a lot of cases - entertainment. They're not worried about dying, they're usually too arrogant and aware of their relative immortality to have the kind of fear that motivates human beings to fight they way they do.

You have to try to look at it from the perspective of one of them. If a marine toys with his enemy it could easily end up with him dying. Asgardians (at least Thor) don't really have that concern. If you get a guy like Thor who's strength is part of his pride, taking into account the culture he comes from and their values, meeting a pure power brute like the Hulk would naturally result in him meeting him on his own terms. At least IMO.

And i'd say in Thor's mind he is trying to end the fight, just physically.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Asgardians are not immortal and dying in honorable battle, giving your all for whatever cause you happen to be fighting for, is considered the absolute greatest accomplishment you could ever hope to achieve for the ancient Norse people. And, again, innocent lives at stake sort of takes it out of the realm of entertainment, don't you think?

 

[piccolo]

Asgardians are not immortal and dying in honorable battle, giving your all for whatever cause you happen to be fighting for, is considered the absolute greatest accomplishment you could ever hope to achieve for the ancient Norse people.

Thats true. But i'd say that works more for my argument than your's though. Fighting Hulk hand to hand and dying in defense of people, even people who could have been saved had he used mjolnir more liberally, would probably send Thor straight to Valhalla.

And, again, innocent lives at stake sort of takes it out of the realm of entertainment, don't you think?

I'd argue that human lives don't mean as much to them as you'd think. For all the hero-ing these comic gods do, they still think themselves faaaaaaaar above human beings.

Yes Thor is concerned about saving people and doesn't want anyone to die, but he's the type who thinks he can have his cake and eat it too. I wont go as far as to say he holds honor and glory over innocent lives, but its probably close. Ie. in Thor's mind he's fully capable of defeating Hulk hand to hand without casualties, and thus will attempt to do so.

Now, he may be proven wrong, but he'll try.

 

[Vanguard07]

Also I imagine the Valkyrie's would frown on people who're brutally beaten to death by opponent's who're less powerfull than them cause they were going easy on them.

 

[piccolo]

Also I imagine the Valkyrie's would frown on people who're brutally beaten to death by opponent's who're less powerfull than them cause they were going easy on them.

I think thats a more human perspective than an asgardian one.

They wouldn't see it as "going easy" on him, for example. Take Thor's fight with Hulk in Antarctica when he went into Warriors Madness. He was trying to kill Hulk, but wasn't using any of mjolnirs powers. No Asgardian would say he was going easy on him. I doubt most human would either...

 

[Vanguard07]

In that one case, I agree. But not using MJolnir for Thor is like using one hand and one eye.

If he's not using his powers, while still able, then frankly he IS going easy on his opponent. While in Warrior's madness he was incapable of doing anything but attacking in a blind rage.

Lets say you're a mid 20's pro fighter and you get into a fight with a high school jock who's never had any training and doesnt know how to do anything but throw wild hooks.

Out of your sense of "fair play" you also only throw wild hooks and dont use any of your training or techniques. You get beaten to death. You really think anyone, anywhere is gonna respect you as a fighter ever again?

No. To everyone who hears about it you'll be the idiot who stood there and did nothing while another idiot slowly beat you to death.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yes Thor is concerned about saving people and doesn't want anyone to die, but he's the type who thinks he can have his cake and eat it too. I wont go as far as to say he holds honor and glory over innocent lives, but its probably close. Ie. in Thor's mind he's fully capable of defeating Hulk hand to hand without casualties, and thus will attempt to do so.

Now, he may be proven wrong, but he'll try.

Based on everything I've read of Thor, I really can't see how you came to that conclusion about his personality.

 

[piccolo]

In that one case, I agree. But not using MJolnir for Thor is like using one hand and one eye.

If he's not using his powers, while still able, then frankly he IS going easy on his opponent. While in Warrior's madness he was incapable of doing anything but attacking in a blind rage.

Like I said, I understand why you feel that way. I'm just saying Thor and other characters from ancient immortal pantheons dont necessarily view it as such. Their culture, ideals, moral and ethics codes, etc. are unique to them as our's are to us, and whats "honorable" in their eyes can certainly be foolishness and stupidity in our's.

So while you think he's going easy on him, Thor doesn't, which is why he's fine doing what he does.