The Strongest In The Marvel Universe?

[Mr. Green]

I wouldn't really call the Dr. Strange fight a struggle. The Hulk broke his hands and Strange apparently lost his f***ing mind. And then it still didn't really matter.

I like the Hulk comics when they're more about Banner than the Hulk as well. Planet Hulk is an exception, since the Hulk was smart enough to actually have some character development. The best of both worlds for me, though, was the professor Hulk era... which, of course, many Hulk fanboys hate because the professor Hulk wasn't quite as absurdly strong as the savage, mentally incompetent version.

I grew up on the professor Hulk so I'll always like him a lot too. That was when PAD was really kicking ass and telling his best stories. Future Imperfect is a great example of this.

As for the Strange/Hulk fight, to be fair, Hulk didn't outright beat Zom/Strange, he actually got his ass kicked for five pages straight before Strange put some innocents in danger. That's when Strange started holding back because the power was so hard to control. That's when he left himself open to attack from Hulk. Strange actually defeated himself at that point.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Strange calling on Zom in the first place is what I meant by "Strange apparently lost his f***ing mind." A) It's ridiculously dumb to unleash an evil magical god on Earth, and B) he shouldn't have needed it in the first place. But supposedly Strange was losing power since before that in New Avengers, so it does make sense. It's still a disservice to Strange, though. I'd really like to see him reclaim his spot as the king of the magic powerhouses instead of having people like Ghost Rider and the Hulk beating him left and right. Maybe whenever this "new Sorcerer Supreme" plot is over, he will.

DC doesn't mind Superman getting his butt handed to him, Supes often looses to Captain Marvel where popularity has nothing to do with it. There reasoning is Supes has two weakness kryptonite and magic. Imagine if Marvel writers used the same logic to there powerhouse.

Then all the Hulk fanboys would just write every loss off saying, "Yeah, well, Thor probably had vibranium (or whatever the Hulk would be vulnerable to) in his pocket when he fought the Hulk that time."

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Well I never understand why his only solution was releasing Zom. Green is very correct in saying Strange defeated himself in somewhat the same way (but not for the same reasons) the Silver Surfer did during Planet Hulk.

 

[theunseenmarvel]

I grew up on the professor Hulk so I'll always like him a lot too. That was when PAD was really kicking ass and telling his best stories. Future Imperfect is a great example of this.

As for the Strange/Hulk fight, to be fair, Hulk didn't outright beat Zom/Strange, he actually got his ass kicked for five pages straight before Strange put some innocents in danger. That's when Strange started holding back because the power was so hard to control. That's when he left himself open to attack from Hulk. Strange actually defeated himself at that point.

Just go's to show, it dont matter how naturally powerfull (if you can call getting a massive amount of strength, stunning healing ability, and mutiple personalitys natural) you are still suceptible to magic if its strong enuff.

 

[theunseenmarvel]

IM a bit of a newbie can som 1 please tell me how to A: put a picture on my profile.
B: How do I create a new thread for discusion.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Just to add to what is said above, Strength is not at all proportional to size in the comic book world. the sources for it are unexplainnned. Do I personally find it a bit ridiculous to make a 10 year old girl super strong.....yes but it is the comic book world and it is the laws of that world.

WW is as strong as the writers want her to be and if they want her to defeat Superman then she will defeat him. It is the same in reverse. The power levels are volatile and not very consistent.

To be honest though, more often than not Superman defeats WW, its just that often when the fight Superman holds back, I know its a tired argument but in Sacrifice when Superman thought WW was Doomsday, he battered her, even breaking her wrist simply by crushing it in his hand.

You misunderstand the nature of the average Hulk fan. They don't care about things like drama and character development. They just want to see their character dominate everything in the universe 'cause he's the strongest evarr and it's f***in' awesome!!!!11

I am a big Hulk fan, yet I know he couldnt stand up to The Silver Surfer or even, to be honest Superman, if they ever met properly, let alone the likes of Galactus, etc. I love action like any other guy but its the psychology of Hulk i find the most interesting aspect of the character.

 

[tricon7]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but I saw a clip of the Hulk vs. Thor animation. As I grew up with Marvel, I know that Thor and the Hulk were supposed to be equal in physical strength. Stan Lee in an interview once said that he thought Thor should be stronger. But in this animation I saw the Hulk pound Thor like he was a punching bag, and in the end Thor was lying unconscious and bloody in the dirt while the Hulk kept pounding away on him. Thor should have been dead after a beating like that.

All this to say that this isn't the Marvel Universe I knew from the comics - the writers/directors have re-created it to where the Hulk is the Supreme strength-character in the Marvel pantheon, and even a powerhouse like Thor is humiliated - all the more so as he was always the foil for the green one in times past. If anyone thinks that Thor is on par with the Hulk strength-wise, well, all he needs to do is watch this movie to get slapped with a sobering wake-up call. Or maybe read Hulk #5 where the "red" Hulk takes Thor's mightiest mjolnir hit to the face with a casual smile - then grabs mjolnier and jumps to the moon with it while dragging Thor in tow, where he gets unceremoniously dumped. Uh - excuse me, but Thor once dented pure adamantium with a full-force mjolnir hit (Avengers #66). You mean to tell me that this same kind of hit to the Hulk's face can't even make him break his smile?!

The Hulk has clearly become indestructible and unstoppable these days. He should be up on the stage with Galactus and Eternity, not down with the regular heroes.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I agree with your post in general, but there are two points I feel I must clarify:

1) It was the red Hulk who stood up to Thor's mightiest hammer blow and all that stuff in Hulk #5. The red Hulk is a totally different guy from the green Hulk, as evidenced by the fact that they fight later on.

2) That wasn't Thor's mightiest hammer blow, since Thor comes back and beats the crap out of the red Hulk in Hulk #6. Apparently, he was holding back while the red Hulk pummeled him in #5, and then he stopped holding back in #6. Why it took him an entire issue of getting his ass kicked for him to realize he needed to up his game is beyond me, but it's Jeph Loeb so it's best not to ask logical questions like that.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I2) That wasn't Thor's mightiest hammer blow, since Thor comes back and beats the crap out of the red Hulk in Hulk #6. Apparently, he was holding back while the red Hulk pummeled him in #5, and then he stopped holding back in #6. Why it took him an entire issue of getting his ass kicked for him to realize he needed to up his game is beyond me, but it's Jeph Loeb so it's best not to ask logical questions like that.

That is a jewel of a phrase which so accurately portrays the questions of many.

 

[tricon7]

I agree with your post in general, but there are two points I feel I must clarify:

1) It was the red Hulk who stood up to Thor's mightiest hammer blow and all that stuff in Hulk #5. The red Hulk is a totally different guy from the green Hulk, as evidenced by the fact that they fight later on.

Yeah, I've heard this explanation before, but it's a pretty thin one to me. After all, it wasn't the red Abomination or the red Juggernaut who kicked Thor's arse - it was the red Hulk. In the eyes of most readers - particularly those who aren't that familiar with the gray/green/red Hulks or where Marvel's been in the past with all this - they're still going to see the decades-long contest between the two as a stunning hands-down win for the Hulk - whichever color he was at the time.

It's nice that in ish #6 Thor got some measure of payback (I haven't read it, so I hope he didn't "beat" the *ahem* red Hulk with a mjolnir blast or something unrelated to strength). But if this comic writer had intentionally set out to purposefully humiliate Thor, he could not have done a better job than what occurred in #5, which is what sticks in my craw. The same thing applies to the animation Hulk vs.Thor.

IMHO, the writer sounds like he's one of these guys who always cheered for the Hulk in the 70s and 80s, when they were actually evenly matched, and now's his chance to finally write a storyline where he can manipulate Marvel reality like Playdoh to suit his fancy. He might has well had the *ahem* red Hulk fly around like Superman if that's going to make him more dominating at crushing his erstwhile opponents. I used to be a big Hulk fan, but his always-changing incarnations - making him bigger, stronger, more indestructible - has really almost turned me against the character.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I haven't read Hulk #6 either, but I saw a few scans and it seemed like Thor just went to town on the Hulk physically. No godblasts or anything like that, if that's what you were thinking.

The writer was Jeph Loeb, who's become known for asinine stories, so I don't take the Hulk series too seriously.

 

[Vanguard07]

You know what, somehow when first reading that issue (Hulk #5) I overlooked something...
Is my memory decieving me or did Rulk actually JUMP TO THE MOON during that fight?With Thor in tow no less.

If so... I think that's actually the most ridiculous thing i've read in a comic in decades and I'm confused as to how it didnt occur to me until now. (I'm guessing the fact that it was in a Loeb written comic numbed my brain enough to not notice such stupidity right away)

 

[Paradox1]

You know what, somehow when first reading that issue (Hulk #5) I overlooked something...
Is my memory decieving me or did Rulk actually JUMP TO THE MOON during that fight?With Thor in tow no less.

If so... I think that's actually the most ridiculous thing i've read in a comic in decades and I'm confused as to how it didnt occur to me until now. (I'm guessing the fact that it was in a Loeb written comic numbed my brain enough to not notice such stupidity right away)

That is almost as stupid as Superman pushing the Earth back into normal orbit or He-Man stoping a meteor buy kicking it before it hits Eternia.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Yes that was pretty ridiculous.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You know what, somehow when first reading that issue (Hulk #5) I overlooked something...
Is my memory decieving me or did Rulk actually JUMP TO THE MOON during that fight?With Thor in tow no less.

If so... I think that's actually the most ridiculous thing i've read in a comic in decades and I'm confused as to how it didnt occur to me until now. (I'm guessing the fact that it was in a Loeb written comic numbed my brain enough to not notice such stupidity right away)

Yeah, he jumps to the moon for the infamous "gravity > Odin's magic" incident.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

[sarcasm]Yes because apparently magic is subject to the laws of physics which then bends the question whether it is magic at all or just another form of science. And of course Odin never thought that Thor would go in space and that he would lose control of over his hammer in zero gravity. Just like all the other times it happenned.[/sarcasm]

 

[jms]

For fun, you might want to check out the latest post at the Defenders Fansite: www.defendersfan.blogspot.com

It discusses a boxing match among the Hulk, Thing, and some of other super-strongmen of the Marvel Universe back in the 1980s.

 

[lowly marvelite]

"I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but I saw a clip of the Hulk vs. Thor animation. As I grew up with Marvel, I know that Thor and the Hulk were supposed to be equal in physical strength. Stan Lee in an interview once said that he thought Thor should be stronger. But in this animation I saw the Hulk pound Thor like he was a punching bag, and in the end Thor was lying unconscious and bloody in the dirt while the Hulk kept pounding away on him. Thor should have been dead after a beating like that."-Tricon7

Sadly, it has come to epitomize Hulk/Thor matchups. Its the darndest thing I've ever seen...multiple times Marvel has made reference to Thor as their top dog, whatever you want to call it, and this latest DVD just puts the exclamation point on the whole thing. I've discussed and read all sorts of conspiracy theories on this subject (Thor's poor showing against Marvel's own Hulk and DC's Superman) on multiple sites; poor writing, popularity of one character over another, editorial sabotage...you name it, I think I've probably read it. Then a no-name from out the blue calling himself the Sentry comes along and forces me to rethink all those theories. Why does Marvel not crown their top dog Thor and write him as such? I don't know. I'm completely lost on the subject...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There are conspiracy theories about Thor sucking in practically all of his fights with other heavy-hitters?

 

[lowly marvelite]

There are conspiracy theories about Thor sucking in practically all of his fights with other heavy-hitters?

Yeah. Of course it's all hearsay; nothing can be validated. On Marvel's website (which I am proud to say I've been banned from for making comments that their "moderator" said was inappropriate...lies he didn't like the fact that I was right) I mentioned Thor's poor showing in the JLA/Avengers crossover; one guy said when Marvel and DC originally met to discuss what would happen, when they got to Thor, Jim Shooter EIC at the time, said he wouldn't go for Superman beating Thor. Of course, the editors at DC got all pissy about the whole thing and dubbed Shooter as "difficult to work with". After Kurt Busiek took over, apparently he suggested the fight end in a draw. Supposedly, Busiek a known Superman fan who later worked for DC, agreed but before they went to press changed the outcome to a win for Superman. I spoke with "Tetrakings" who said he read all this in an article and could not find it at the time.
With the Hulk, I've always heard it explained as simple popularity over Thor. But then...the Sentry, a virtual no-name when he first began (I mean he hasn't been around for decades like Thor) makes a showing in WWHulk the way he did...kinda blows that one out of the water. There was another conspiracy theory on the marvel boards...I can't recall it. I believe its under "The Truth Behind The JLA/Avengers Crossover"...something like that. If you go there, be careful what you say...Dragonwolf the "head moderator" is a super jerk...has the power to ban you or delete your posts...real control freak...does not like to be proved wrong...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I figured the JLA/Avengers thing was just Busiek's bias at work. He's never known how to write Thor properly, and I think he's even admitted as such.

 

[wobbly]

Yeah, he jumps to the moon for the infamous "gravity > Odin's magic" incident.

Rulk uses Thor's hammer, after Loeb's somewhat 'creative' interpretation of how the enchantment works, to get to the moon. The physics mangling feat of leaping the distance is when he jumps back to Earth.

Evidently Loeb doesn't have any idea of just how far away the moon really is.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, sorry for misremembering. I've tried so hard to forget it.

 

[CBG]

What about when Hulk jumped from Sakaar's moon to Sakaar?

Though, I think it was mentioned the moon was at a position where it was really close to Sakaar.

 

[Phenomenal]

Hulk jumping to the moon shouldn't be surprising to anyone...This is a comic book afterall.