Comics The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 1

[The Joker]

Our friendly neighborhood Scanbro over at /co/ leaked Issue 9 tonight.

Spoiler

Depending on who you're rooting for, you're either going to be very pissed or very ha- actually no, you'll probably be pissed in some way either way.

Spoiler

I enjoyed it though.

Well what happened?

 

[VenomSpawn]

Well what happened?

Spoiler

Otto goes into his/Peter's brain to battle Peter. Peter gains the upper hand at first by bringing out his friends and family (sans any actual superheroes), but Otto trumps this by summoning Peter's rogues gallery, who immediately begin to destroy Peter's army, and in turn his actual memories of those people. Afterwards, Amazing and Superior Spider-Man duke it out, only for Otto to pull out the rug and destroy Peter entirely. In the last page, he proclaims that he's free.

 

[The Joker]

Spoiler

Otto goes into his/Peter's brain to battle Peter. Peter gains the upper hand at first by bringing out his friends and family (sans any actual superheroes), but Otto trumps this by summoning Peter's rogues gallery, who immediately begin to destroy Peter's army, and in turn his actual memories of those people. Afterwards, Amazing and Superior Spider-Man duke it out, only for Otto to pull out the rug and destroy Peter entirely. In the last page, he proclaims that he's free.

Thank you. That brings a big smile to my face. No sarcasm

 

[VenomSpawn]

This book sure is one crazy ride.

 

[The Joker]

And I'm loving every second of it.

 

[runawayboulder]

Not shocked by any of that. Sounds real good though.

 

[VenomSpawn]

It is. This issue was great. I can already feel the anger that's going to come once this issue is out to the public.

There's one moment in the issue where

Spoiler

Peter and Doc Ock are fighting, and they both rip off their faces and have their Spider-Man masks on underneath and fight as Spider-Men.

That probably sounds really weird but it's awesome in the comic. And I'm glad Stegman drew this issue, I wouldn't want any other artist doing this.

 

[runawayboulder]

So I guess when

Spoiler

Peter does come back, he will have no memories of any of his friends/family. He will truly be a loner again. Sounds interesting for down the line. I guess this means that this Superior era is not Slott's swan song on the title. He's gonna have to eventually put everything back in place before he goes. I doubt he wants to leave everything in pieces for another writer to put back together. This guy plans things out real far in advance.

 

[runawayboulder]

It is. This issue was great. I can already feel the anger that's going to come once this issue is out to the public.

Eh, I think anyone that was gonna jump off the book would have done so back with ASM 700. It seems that the ones that remained are pretty satisfied with how things have been going. We still have the stories where Superior faces Norman, Kaine, Venom and some of the others.

 

[VenomSpawn]

Doesn't stop people from complaining about it now anyway.

I'm really excited for Miguel showing up in issue 17. I wish it wasn't so far away.

 

[Shockdingo]

In the past weeks I've been coming around and enjoying the book, but..I dunno, I'm going to need time to process this. Hmm..

 

[Naked Shia]

it was obvious it would happen this way, and I'm glad it did.

 

[Shockdingo]

Oh for sure, in that aspect I'm relived that Slott didn't pull a fast one and make everything okay and hunky dory. (I mean, we have the descriptions of future issues that show this'll go on for months at least) It's just that, something isn't sitting totally right with me, maybe I got poisoned by the discussion on "that board", I dunno.

 

[tw9876z]

Oh for sure, in that aspect I'm relived that Slott didn't pull a fast one and make everything okay and hunky dory. (I mean, we have the descriptions of future issues that show this'll go on for months at least) It's just that, something isn't sitting totally right with me, maybe I got poisoned by the discussion on "that board", I dunno.

What not sitting right is that we are watching the original hero be tortured and killed by a villain again and again. It's rather brutal how Ock is treating Parker and to expect us to warm up to Doc when he is being so cruel to Peter is hard to swallow. It's like watching someone slowly kill kittens because they dont have a home, its awful to watch but they feel justified doing it.

It does make you want to see what happens next though. Morbid curiosity

 

[Donald Thomas]

What not sitting right is that we are watching the original hero be tortured and killed by a villain again and again. It's rather brutal how Ock is treating Parker and to expect us to warm up to Doc when he is being so cruel to Peter is hard to swallow. It's like watching someone slowly kill kittens because they dont have a home, its awful to watch but they feel justified doing it.

It does make you want to see what happens next though. Morbid curiosity

Aloha,
You have described my feelings exactly.I can never have anything but contempt for the man who stole Peter's life and identity along with trying to incinerate the world.
Spidey rules

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Aloha,
You have described my feelings exactly.I can never have anything but contempt for the man who stole Peter's life and identity along with trying to incinerate the world.
Spidey rules

Well, he is the villain...

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

I'm happy with this news, hehehe!

 

[socool]

Spoiler

I don't mind that Ock won. That's fine with me; him being Spider-Man is what made this book so damn fun to begin with. It's the fact that Slott made Peter such a selfish bastard that he would risk a little girls life just to stay hidden in his own body so that Ock could win in the end. THIS is destroying Spider-Man. Not killing Peter. Killing who Peter is. And I hate Slott for doing that. He's just lucky it's not gonna stop me from reading...

 

[Traveller]

What not sitting right is that we are watching the original hero be tortured and killed by a villain again and again. It's rather brutal how Ock is treating Parker and to expect us to warm up to Doc when he is being so cruel to Peter is hard to swallow.

I don't know. It's a philosophically interesting question. What a person? Who are you? Are you the body or the mind (or sense)? If somebody steal your body you will be the same person? And if somebody steal your mind? Our body is a shell I think our mind is that define us.
Was Otto Octavius steal Peter Parker's body? Yes, in the Amazing Spider-Man #700. Is Peter's mind trying overrule Otto's reign? Again, yes. So Otto tortured Peter Parker some day earlier (in the ASM #700 and the start of the Superior) but right now his mind mended with Peter's so as I see the Superior Spider-Man is half Otto and half Peter - in Peter's body. So the Superior Spider-Man so much Peter Parker as much Otto Octavius now.
It's a big possibility Slott won't change back their body at the end of Superior era but simply Peter's mind really overrule Otto's and we will receive Peter Parker Spider-Man again with a very little (or nothing) influence by Dr. Octopus. That would be another interesting story.

 

[runawayboulder]

Eh, I think anyone that was gonna jump off the book would have done so back with ASM 700. It seems that the ones that remained are pretty satisfied with how things have been going. We still have the stories where Superior faces Norman, Kaine, Venom and some of the others.

Doesn't stop people from complaining about it now anyway.

I'm really excited for Miguel showing up in issue 17. I wish it wasn't so far away.

I stand corrected. You were right. Good lord, people are acting today like this is the end. [BLACKOUT]He'll be back folks[/BLACKOUT]......sheesh!

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

I don't know. It's a philosophically interesting question. What a person? Who are you? Are you the body or the mind (or sense)? If somebody steal your body you will be the same person? And if somebody steal your mind? Our body is a shell I think our mind is that define us.
Was Otto Octavius steal Peter Parker's body? Yes, in the Amazing Spider-Man #700. Is Peter's mind trying overrule Otto's reign? Again, yes. So Otto tortured Peter Parker some day earlier (in the ASM #700 and the start of the Superior) but right now his mind mended with Peter's so as I see the Superior Spider-Man is half Otto and half Peter - in Peter's body. So the Superior Spider-Man so much Peter Parker as much Otto Octavius now.
It's a big possibility Slott won't change back their body at the end of Superior era but simply Peter's mind really overrule Otto's and we will receive Peter Parker Spider-Man again with a very little (or nothing) influence by Dr. Octopus. That would be another interesting story.

and that's the day that I'LL be looking forward to...

proving in the end that it's PETER, and NOT Otto, who's the SUPERIOR Spider-Man...

 

[bugman]

i'm still a little ambivalent about the whole thing, tho i generally enjoy it. i'm especially looking forward to a showdown between doc and the goblin.

and whatever they do now, however it plays out, i have no doubt that we will see the return of peter parker in time for the release of amazing 2. no doubt.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

hopefully Slott won't drag it out THAT long...

 

[stillanerd]

I'll probably expand more on this on my blog later (thus giving me a reason to update it finally) but yeah...

Spoiler

it's not so much that readers will get upset that Doc Ock kills Peter once again, because let's face it: quite a few people expected that Ghost Peter was going to lose and be jettisoned/erased or what have you by Doc Ock. Rather, it's the notion that Peter Parker, the Amazing Spider-Man, Marvel's flagship character and they guy we've been told for 50+ years is "the hero who could be you" was willing to run the risk of letting an innocent, brain-damaged, little-girl die just to save his own skin.

Granted, the suggestion is that Ghost Peter is only the manifestation of the real Peter's memories and is therefore not the real Peter, but the issue also makes the point via Doc Ock that "we are the sum of our experiences," meaning that Ghost Peter might as well have been the real Peter for all intents and purposes. And even if we're supposed to conclude that this is supposed to be another example of how readers can "relate to" Peter because he's not above succumbing to moral lapses out of fear and desperation, it still comes across as the most blatant form of character assassination of a beloved comic book superhero that I can recall ever seeing. Hell, this whole issue was practically saying:

"See? Doc Ock isn't just a better and far more deserving Spider-Man than Peter Parker--he's morally superior to him as well. Because Peter, at his very core, isn't just a selfish person--he's also a morally weak, hypocritical coward diluted by his own self-righteousness while Doc Ock is willing to do what ever is necessary to get the job done, but not at the cost of innocent children's lives. In fact, it's Peter's sense of guilt and desire to be loved which actually proves that his dedication to heroism and self-sacrifice was nothing but a lie. Unlike Peter, Doc Ock admits that he's motivated by personal self-interest, that he too wants fame and recognition for his deeds just as much as Peter does, only he's not willing to drop his moral principles at the drop of a hat when it's most convenient, especially when innocent children are in danger. Plus he doesn't care that people don't like him personally because as long as the results are done for the greater good, who cares what other people think about him. That's an admirable quality in a hero, is it not? It's Peter Parker, the so-called superhero who is the real villain here, and has been a villain all along. Therefore, Doc Ock is worthy of redemption and has earned more than enough right to prove himself as a hero."

To which the proper response to this argument should be: "BULL****!" Especially when the last page is pretty much a variation of:

 

[Shockdingo]

Spoiler

The art was good, the stakes were high and dramatic, and yes, we all know Pete's coming back, that's not the issue for me. I've had more time to chew and digest this and here are my thoughts.

-Going into this I knew Pete was going to lose and "die", it would be too sudden and strange to fix this so early especially given the description for future issues.

With the hanging stipulation that Pete had to lose, I'm still surprised about the "family assembly" moment. I know that Pete doesn't have a ton of super heroes that are BFFs (allies, sure, but he's not going to have Logan in there) I was at least expecting Torch, or Flash-idealized Soldier version rather than reality (since he also doesn't know about Venom), or Ms. Marvel or heck, Cap, given the hero worship.

-The massacre of Pete's loved ones was tragic and a powerful scene, no problem there.

-The battle of morality bothered me. Yes, Dock Ock is going to be the winner here given the the goal of the story, but still, I didn't expect Pete to be so easily plowed over. I was expecting a creeping loss of memory and fear, but still some last vestige of heroic defiance; i.e. losing memories of Uncle Ben, maybe even his own name, but not forgetting ideals, or heck the fact that Ock just murdered his mental family, or since he can't remember them, he killed those "individuals".

-I was expecting Pete to get trounced, and it to be intense and depressing and all that for the thematic impact, but gah, he was schooled and humiliated yet again (even worse this time around due to the moral posturing) and yes, I'll say it, it bothered me. Pete's at a disadvantage, the biggest he's probably ever going to face, but really, I expected more than him to just slump over, sob and sputter that he's not so bad.

I'm not going to hurl death threats and voodoo curses at Slott or even drop the book. I know it's an onging story and I'm not blind to that. I just had dissatisfaction with this issue.