Comics The SUPERIOR Spider-Man

[Spider-Aziz]

MY GOD!... I just realized... those goggles and the pointy beak remind me of Nighthawk from the Supreme Power MAX title from awhile back...

Spidey looks JUST like THAT character mask-wise...

Here's the other page to the Avenging Spider-Man #16 preview.

I do not like the way this guy draws the new costume.

I hope this doesn't mean [blackout]The Queen return after her second apparent death in Spider-Island[/blackout]

 

[Aracno_8000]

Ramos is doing the main 50-something page story. I think Camuncoli is doing one of the short stories included in the book.

Yes, i read that after i posted the comment pardon

 

[Aracno_8000]

BTW, i always think that every story must come to a conclusion.
I mean, Spiderman has a lot of stories (some of them are meh, but...) and we cannot force the direction of the whole story when all things are reaching the climax, so Peter needs a break, i understand this.
What i'm complaining here is that lately writers are messing up with Peter.
Bendis wanted to kill him while he was 16, and i have to admit that the Ultimate Spiderman was a really good comic, but after utlimatum, the whole UU has been raped IMO.
In fact, whe have a second arch of story with Ultimate Peter which is really bad taste: Arts are totally meh, and story are :|
We can say that the 2 volume of USM has an important story, and that's just the death of Peter.
And when i saw Peter dying in that comic, i was feeling really bad, because Bendis could have told so much interesting stories with him...but i thought "Fine. Every hero needs a rest...even Peter." and i'm starting to like Miles.
But the "rest" is needed after a hero fought so much battles and is tired, with many stories at his back.
Ultimate peter has 160 stories, 616 Peter 700. That's the difference...a big difference.

And now that they're cutting 616 Peter, i feel so much bad, 'cause it seems like writers hate peter, hate his personality, and the make him act like a total dumb even in the final scenario.
Peter deserve a positive ending, after all he went through his life.
So, okay with the ending of a story, that's just fine because all of us got a start and an end...but, can we take an ending like this?
Really no...so, to me, ASM 700 could be a perfect break-point to finish reading Spiderman, as i will be just a "Peter Parker fan fading away"...i wont have any reason to read that comic again.
So i hate that they made the "memories trick"...Peter is gone and finish. Not a sequel, not if they use Peter just to put up a different story and then make him go away.

USM: Peter's gone to have a different Spiderman.
ASM: Peter's gone to have a superior Spiderman.

Different marvel universes, same conclusion -> BAD THING
At this point, i like more the new USM, because Peter was still "Pure" at the end of his life (no mephisto, no dumbest decisions with MJ and so on...). He was great even in the ending, a concrete character.
And i will be really upset if, after some comics of Superior, they will bring back peter just to start selling again for money purposes. If this is Peter's ending, just let it end, do not retcon something. ASM is over: let the future to other fan.

Sorry for my looong testament xD

_________________________
Tobey Maguire reacts to the new Amazing Spider-Man movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lISRruMLGJs xDxDxD

 

[Fanged-Hunter]

They tried giving Peter a farewell once before. He moved away with Mary Jane to settle down and live a normal life while Ben Reilly became Spider-Man.

And sales dropped.

Now they're going to have Peter Parker who isn't Peter Parker as Spider-Man and there is no more Peter Parker?

Like someone else said, they will continuously be explaining why Peter Parker isn't Peter Parker anymore and that Peter Parker is gone and someone else looks like Peter Parker now.

The fact that he looks like Peter to everyone (particularly MJ, May, etc) just makes my skin crawl with what they will do with this book... I've already disliked the new, modern deal with the devil, drunk, one night stands, Friends w/ benefits version of Peter. Now a Peter without the same moral compass we've known for years?

I'm in agreement of ASM 700 being my last Spider-Man, but I also have the suspicion it will be retconned and Peter will be back eventually. It's just...I thought the same about erasing the marriage (technically it's not erased, nobody remembers it is all), the X-Men would be back to "normal" by now, and Jean wouldn't have stayed dead for over a decade too, so maybe Peter-that-isn't-Peter Superior Spider-Man is indeed here to stay.

Unless sales drop out of the top 10 like they did last time Peter wasn't Spider-Man.

For now I'll stop by the comic shop and flip through to get a feel for things before I commit to buying. Same with just about every Marvel NOW title replacing what I normally read.

 

[The Infernal]

I think overall I like the art from the Avenging Spider-man preview, but there are several flaws in Spider-man's costume itself that ruin the look of Spidey to me. Most notably is the over-pronounced beak and feet claws (especially on the panel where he lands on his ass).

 

[OctoHaz]

No, I am serious. No sarcasm.

Spoiler

Doc Ock is my favorite Spidey villain. I can't wait to see where they go with this. I've always thought of Octavius as the Peter Parker gone bad.

Dec 26th simply cannot come quickly enough. I mean, yeah, I've stumbled across the spoilers and all, but nothing beats being able to read the comic (comics, if I include Avenging Spider-Man 15.1, and I DO) proper.

Spoiler

So, I'm of split mind.

One part of me is being all nervous and sad, murmuring things like "Peter..." and "ButbutbutTENTACLESandGREENANDORANGESUITandBOWLCUT" and "Ohgodpleasedon'tscrewthisupthey'regonnascrewitupsomewhow..."

The other part is gibberingly gleeful. Because after I read #698, I thought of this scenario but didn't think Marvel would have the guts. And because Octavius IS my favorite supervillain and clearly Marvel's been planning Peter's replacement for a long time (perhaps testing the waters with killing off Ultimate Peter), and the fact that they chose OTTO OCTAVIUS my FAVORITE FREAKIN' CHARACTER (apart from Spidey himself) to be the next guy under the mask is something I NEVER would have expected.

Long story short, I'm a little excited.

 

[Rise_-]

Spoiler

Peter dies in the mangled, already dying body of one of his arch-nemesis's, said arch-nemesis gets basically a new lease on life. Peter's fine with Ock having his body because he finds out that Ock has always wanted to be Spider-Man or some ****? Sounds pretty horrible all around. Could have given Peter a HEROIC death at least.

 

[stillanerd]

No, I am serious. No sarcasm.

Spoiler

Doc Ock is my favorite Spidey villain. I can't wait to see where they go with this. I've always thought of Octavius as the Peter Parker gone bad.

Dec 26th simply cannot come quickly enough. I mean, yeah, I've stumbled across the spoilers and all, but nothing beats being able to read the comic (comics, if I include Avenging Spider-Man 15.1, and I DO) proper.

Spoiler

So, I'm of split mind.

One part of me is being all nervous and sad, murmuring things like "Peter..." and "ButbutbutTENTACLESandGREENANDORANGESUITandBOWLCUT" and "Ohgodpleasedon'tscrewthisupthey'regonnascrewitupsomewhow..."

The other part is gibberingly gleeful. Because after I read #698, I thought of this scenario but didn't think Marvel would have the guts. And because Octavius IS my favorite supervillain and clearly Marvel's been planning Peter's replacement for a long time (perhaps testing the waters with killing off Ultimate Peter), and the fact that they chose OTTO OCTAVIUS my FAVORITE FREAKIN' CHARACTER (apart from Spidey himself) to be the next guy under the mask is something I NEVER would have expected.

Long story short, I'm a little excited.

Spoiler

Doctor Octopus is indeed a great villain and, IMO, a much more fitting arch-nemesis for Spider-Man than Norman Osborn. However, the qualities that make Doc Ock a great villain are not going to make him a great hero, much less a "Superior" Spider-Man. The reason why fans have identified and rooted for Peter Parker these 50 years is, with the exception of his being a superhero, he had to put up with all the things we ourselves put up with: trying to make ends meet, paying for bills, taking care of his family, searching for love and friendship--all the things regular people have to deal with on a daily basis. We saw Peter as one of us. Doc Ock, on the other hand, is an arrogant, petulant, megalomaniac who we can't wait to see his ass get beat so we can relish in his defeat. When bad things happen to him, we don't laugh with him and share his occasional misfortune like we do with Peter; we laugh at him because he deserves to lose and be humiliated because of what he brought upon himself. To make a character like Doc Ock the "hero" of the story doesn't just mean you have to somehow turn a guy you loved to hate into object of pity, you also have to diminish all the qualities that made him such a great villain in the first place.

 

[Rise_-]

Spoiler

Doctor Octopus is indeed a great villain and, IMO, a much more fitting arch-nemesis for Spider-Man than Norman Osborn. However, the qualities that make Doc Ock a great villain are not going to make him a great hero, much less a "Superior" Spider-Man. The reason why fans have identified and rooted for Peter Parker these 50 years is, with the exception of his being a superhero, he had to put up with all the things we ourselves put up with: trying to make ends meet, paying for bills, taking care of his family, searching for love and friendship--all the things regular people have to deal with on a daily basis. We saw Peter as one of us. Doc Ock, on the other hand, is an arrogant, petulant, megalomaniac who we can't wait to see his ass get beat so we can relish in his defeat. When bad things happen to him, we don't laugh with him and share his occasional misfortune like we do with Peter; we laugh at him because he deserves to lose and be humiliated because of what he brought upon himself. To make a character like Doc Ock the "hero" of the story doesn't just mean you have to somehow turn a guy you loved to hate into object of pity, you also have to diminish all the qualities that made him such a great villain in the first place.

 

[OctoHaz]

Spoiler

Doctor Octopus is indeed a great villain and, IMO, a much more fitting arch-nemesis for Spider-Man than Norman Osborn. However, the qualities that make Doc Ock a great villain are not going to make him a great hero, much less a "Superior" Spider-Man. The reason why fans have identified and rooted for Peter Parker these 50 years is, with the exception of his being a superhero, he had to put up with all the things we ourselves put up with: trying to make ends meet, paying for bills, taking care of his family, searching for love and friendship--all the things regular people have to deal with on a daily basis. We saw Peter as one of us. Doc Ock, on the other hand, is an arrogant, petulant, megalomaniac who we can't wait to see his ass get beat so we can relish in his defeat. When bad things happen to him, we don't laugh with him and share his occasional misfortune like we do with Peter; we laugh at him because he deserves to lose and be humiliated because of what he brought upon himself. To make a character like Doc Ock the "hero" of the story doesn't just mean you have to somehow turn a guy you loved to hate into object of pity, you also have to diminish all the qualities that made him such a great villain in the first place.

Spoiler

I'm not really disagreeing with you, and therein lies my worries about this getting screwed up.

Were I handling this, the "Superior" thing would become somewhat ironic. Octavius is nothing if not a massive egotist, hence the "Superior" adjective fits... in his own mind at least.

I can't see him being satisfied with being Spider-Man for long. For extending Spider-Man/Peter Parker's legacy. What about the legacy of Doctor Otto Gunther Octavius? How long will Otto be able to keep the secret? How long before he can't help but want people to know that it's HIM and not Parker that's been doing all this awesome stuff?

How long before he starts missing the four extra limbs?

I am intensely interested in seeing what he does when put into a hero's role. But I strongly doubt he'll be there forever. Even if not for his own nature, the Laws of Comics (tm) state that the status quo WILL be restored, one way or another.

Man, it really is the 90s again, isn't it? t:

 

[stillanerd]

Spoiler

I'm not really disagreeing with you, and therein lies my worries about this getting screwed up.

Were I handling this, the "Superior" thing would become somewhat ironic. Octavius is nothing if not a massive egotist, hence the "Superior" adjective fits... in his own mind at least.

I can't see him being satisfied with being Spider-Man for long. For extending Spider-Man/Peter Parker's legacy. What about the legacy of Doctor Otto Gunther Octavius? How long will Otto be able to keep the secret? How long before he can't help but want people to know that it's HIM and not Parker that's been doing all this awesome stuff?

How long before he starts missing the four extra limbs?

I am intensely interested in seeing what he does when put into a hero's role. But I strongly doubt he'll be there forever. Even if not for his own nature, the Laws of Comics (tm) state that the status quo WILL be restored, one way or another.

Man, it really is the 90s again, isn't it? t:

Granted. In fact

Spoiler

Doc Ock's massive ego is one of the reasons why I don't think his being the Superior Spider-Man is a sustainable status quo and will be a short-lived one. As you point out, sooner or later Doc Ock is going to realize that all he's doing is enhancing the reputation of Peter and Spider-Man instead of his own and is bound to reach a breaking point and crack at the mere idea that all the newfound love and appreciation he'll be getting is really being directed towards a "dead man" instead towards him.

 

[Mr. Dent]

All these spoiler tags....must. resist. >.<

 

[Jick]

If what I read of the spoilers are true, then I can already say that I hate the decision. Not only because of how it ended, but also for the identity of the Superior Spidey.

Someone over here told me that it was confirmed that the Superior would be [BLACKOUT]Miguel[/BLACKOUT]. Check your info next time!
(Unless the spoilers aren't the real thing, of course)

 

[The Infernal]

If what I read of the spoilers are true, than I can already say that I hate the decision. Not only because of how it ended, but also for the identity of the Superior Spidey.

Someone over here told me that it was confirmed that the Superior would be [BLACKOUT]Miguel[/BLACKOUT]. Check your info next time!
(Unless the spoilers aren't the real thing, of course)

In fairness, people only thought that because Slott trolled people when he pretended to let that one slip.

 

[Wadaltmon]

The teaser for Avenging Spider-Man 17 (I believe) said Superior Spidey teams up with the FF when the literal future crashes down on them, threatening to reveal Superior Spidey's greatest secret.
What in the future would cause Superior Spidey's greatest secret [BLACKOUT](i.e. being Doc Ock)[/BLACKOUT] to come down? Perhaps [BLACKOUT]in the future, the identity is revealed and Peter is restored to the Spider-Man identity?[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Will Nolte]

They tried giving Peter a farewell once before. He moved away with Mary Jane to settle down and live a normal life while Ben Reilly became Spider-Man.

And sales dropped.

Now they're going to have Peter Parker who isn't Peter Parker as Spider-Man and there is no more Peter Parker?

Like someone else said, they will continuously be explaining why Peter Parker isn't Peter Parker anymore and that Peter Parker is gone and someone else looks like Peter Parker now.

The fact that he looks like Peter to everyone (particularly MJ, May, etc) just makes my skin crawl with what they will do with this book... I've already disliked the new, modern deal with the devil, drunk, one night stands, Friends w/ benefits version of Peter. Now a Peter without the same moral compass we've known for years?

I'm in agreement of ASM 700 being my last Spider-Man, but I also have the suspicion it will be retconned and Peter will be back eventually. It's just...I thought the same about erasing the marriage (technically it's not erased, nobody remembers it is all), the X-Men would be back to "normal" by now, and Jean wouldn't have stayed dead for over a decade too, so maybe Peter-that-isn't-Peter Superior Spider-Man is indeed here to stay.

Unless sales drop out of the top 10 like they did last time Peter wasn't Spider-Man.

For now I'll stop by the comic shop and flip through to get a feel for things before I commit to buying. Same with just about every Marvel NOW title replacing what I normally read.

To be fair, the dislike came mostly from Marvel claiming that Ben was the real Peter and the Peter we followed all those years was the clone. Had they not gone that route (and did the subsequent backpedal) we might still see Ben as Spidey today with Peter showing up time to time to lend a hand.

The reason most feel this won't stick is because EVERY single time Marvel pulls a "status quo changing" thing, they ALWAYS change it back. Their track record shows us that they can get a big hyped up change going, but it quickly runs out of steam and then they don't know what to do.

Cases in point: Clone Saga/Ben as Spidey, Bucky as Cap, Johnny Storm's "Death", Thunderbolts fight club, Prof X as Onslaught, Bone Claw/Feral Wolvie and many, many more.

 

[Naked Shia]

Spoiler

I think that Ock is going to get found out and that eventually the other heroes are going to find a way to bring back Peter somehow.

Spoiler

I'm sure it's not Ock in Peter's body. Slott is tricking us, and he has his way out. They didn't really switch bodies imo. I think that when their brain patterns were rewritten, they became convinced they were the other: Dock Ock is convinced he's Peter in Ock's body, and Peter is convinced he is doc Ock in Peter's body. That way, they can decide to retcon in a way, if it's needed. "oh, it was always Peter, but he thought he was Ock in Peter's body, and now he got his memories and his real spirit back."

 

[stillanerd]

To be fair, the dislike came mostly from Marvel claiming that Ben was the real Peter and the Peter we followed all those years was the clone. Had they not gone that route (and did the subsequent backpedal) we might still see Ben as Spidey today with Peter showing up time to time to lend a hand.

The irony is that Ben Reilly, who was originally supposed to be the real Peter, was never meant to keep on "Ben Reilly." The original plan was for Ben to not only "reclaim his identity" as Spider-Man but also "reclaim his identity" as Peter Parker. As Glenn Greenberg explained to the Life of Reilly:

Ideally, SENSATIONAL SPIDER-MAN #0 should have shown Ben becoming Peter Parker as well as Spider-Man. But one reason why it didn't happen was because no one could come up with a good rationale for how Ben could be living as Peter Parker in New York, but Peter and MJ are still out there somewhere. As far as the supporting cast knew, Peter and MJ had moved out to Portland. So how could Ben go back to the Daily Bugle as Peter and interact with the old gang? Wouldn't they ask him about his pregnant wife? How could he explain that he's back living in New York but MJ isn't? How could he have left his pregnant wife? He wouldn't look very good, would he? So we went with the approach you saw in SENSATIONAL #0 and beyond, and tried to create an all-new supporting cast around Ben.

If we could have had Ben adopt the Peter identity right away and just gone forward, onward and upward, it might have worked. But I think part of the problem is that a lot of people saw this blond guy named Ben Reilly running around as Spider-Man and their reaction was, "This isn't Spider-Man! Where the hell is Peter Parker?" If there was ever a chance for it to work, Ben had to take back the Peter Parker identity. And he was supposed to.

Translation: Marvel had been so busy trying to make Ben Reilly into Spider-Man that they completely forgot that it was far more important to also make him Peter Parker until it was far too late and next to impossible to do so.

Spoiler

I'm sure it's not Ock in Peter's body. Slott is tricking us, and he has his way out. They didn't really switch bodies imo. I think that when their brain patterns were rewritten, they became convinced they were the other: Dock Ock is convinced he's Peter in Ock's body, and Peter is convinced he is doc Ock in Peter's body. That way, they can decide to retcon in a way, if it's needed. "oh, it was always Peter, but he thought he was Ock in Peter's body, and now he got his memories and his real spirit back."

Yeah, that seems to be the most logical "backdoor." Course, you'd also have to explain

Spoiler

why Doc Ock decided to make Peter believe he was himself and make himself believe he was Peter, but that would easy to explain, I think. It can be that Doc Ock wanted to use Peter's own sense of responsibility, determination and dedication to the people he cared about against him. Even if he didn't manage to stop Spidey, there's always the possibility that Peter, thinking he's Doc Ock, would then turn evil and thus he still wins.

 

[runawayboulder]

The irony is that Ben Reilly, who was originally supposed to be the real Peter, was never meant to keep on "Ben Reilly." The original plan was for Ben to not only "reclaim his identity" as Spider-Man but also "reclaim his identity" as Peter Parker. As Glenn Greenberg explained to the Life of Reilly:

""Ideally, SENSATIONAL SPIDER-MAN #0 should have shown Ben becoming Peter Parker as well as Spider-Man. But one reason why it didn't happen was because no one could come up with a good rationale for how Ben could be living as Peter Parker in New York, but Peter and MJ are still out there somewhere. As far as the supporting cast knew, Peter and MJ had moved out to Portland. So how could Ben go back to the Daily Bugle as Peter and interact with the old gang? Wouldn't they ask him about his pregnant wife? How could he explain that he's back living in New York but MJ isn't? How could he have left his pregnant wife? He wouldn't look very good, would he? So we went with the approach you saw in SENSATIONAL #0 and beyond, and tried to create an all-new supporting cast around Ben.

If we could have had Ben adopt the Peter identity right away and just gone forward, onward and upward, it might have worked. But I think part of the problem is that a lot of people saw this blond guy named Ben Reilly running around as Spider-Man and their reaction was, "This isn't Spider-Man! Where the hell is Peter Parker?" If there was ever a chance for it to work, Ben had to take back the Peter Parker identity. And he was supposed to.""

Translation: Marvel had been so busy trying to make Ben Reilly into Spider-Man that they completely forgot that it was far more important to also make him Peter Parker until it was far too late and next to impossible to do so.

Funny story about that, Ben was actually busted in either Sensation Spider-Man #0 or #1. Aunt Anna saw him around and about and mistook him for Peter who was supposed to be in Oregon with a preggers MJ. Ben played it off that he had some loose ends to tie up at the Bugle. He then decided to cut his hair and dye it blonde.

Ben Reilly wasn't a bad character....Dan Jurgens did an outstanding job of making him likeable. The entire concept of Peter being a fraud for 30yrs was the problem but I'm not saying anything that's not already known.

 

[stillanerd]

Funny story about that, Ben was actually busted in either Sensation Spider-Man #0 or #1. Aunt Anna saw him around and about and mistook him for Peter who was supposed to be in Oregon with a preggers MJ. Ben played it off that he had some loose ends to tie up at the Bugle. He then decided to cut his hair and dye it blonde.

That was in Sensational Spider-Man #0, correct. And as Glenn Greenberg explained why they did that scene:

As I mentioned...no one could come up with a good rationale for how Ben could go back to being Peter Parker. How could he interact with any of the established supporting cast, who would naturally wonder about the whereabouts of Mary Jane? It would [be] like Peter had left his pregnant wife to fend for herself while he's back in New York. There would be too many explanations to make, too many complications and convolutions, too much exposition, when all we wanted to do was move forward. None of the writers could come up with a way around this situation that was deemed acceptable. So the plan, at least for the time being, was to keep Ben as Ben... and the reason for that would be shown in SENSATIONAL #0. In rereading that issue for this column, I have to say that Dan did as good a job as possible in establishing why Ben had to remain as Ben. Having Aunt Anna meet up with him, having him be so uncomfortable around her and feel so guilty that he had to mislead her, was a great idea, and the scene between them is extremely well done.

Ben Reilly wasn't a bad character....Dan Jurgens did an outstanding job of making him likeable. The entire concept of Peter being a fraud for 30yrs was the problem but I'm not saying anything that's not already known.

Oh, I agree completely. Ben Reilly was, indeed, a great character. But let's not forget that the idea all along was that he was supposed to be the real Peter Parker which is why the writers made him so likable, especially in comparison to Peter and how he was being characterized at the time. The whole strategy was to build Ben Reilly up while making Peter less sympathetic and more boxed into a corner so people could better warm up to the idea of Ben Reilly being the real Peter/Spider-Man.

 

[runawayboulder]

I remember Bob Budanski giving an interview to Wizard saying that Peter was a clone for the past 25-30yrs of stories and I was like.....wha?!?....maaaaaaaan, F**K those guys!

LOL, I was pissed to say the least. It made me hate Ben right off the bat, a sentiment shared by many.

 

[VenomSpawn]

Found a new variant cover by Adi Granov

 

[The Infernal]

Really interesting. Adi's work is always great to see.

 

[Naked Shia]

The irony is that Ben Reilly, who was originally supposed to be the real Peter, was never meant to keep on "Ben Reilly." The original plan was for Ben to not only "reclaim his identity" as Spider-Man but also "reclaim his identity" as Peter Parker. As Glenn Greenberg explained to the Life of Reilly:



Translation: Marvel had been so busy trying to make Ben Reilly into Spider-Man that they completely forgot that it was far more important to also make him Peter Parker until it was far too late and next to impossible to do so.



Yeah, that seems to be the most logical "backdoor." Course, you'd also have to explain

Spoiler

why Doc Ock decided to make Peter believe he was himself and make himself believe he was Peter, but that would easy to explain, I think. It can be that Doc Ock wanted to use Peter's own sense of responsibility, determination and dedication to the people he cared about against him. Even if he didn't manage to stop Spidey, there's always the possibility that Peter, thinking he's Doc Ock, would then turn evil and thus he still wins.

Spoiler

I've been thinking about that as well. What if Doc Ock was convinced that they would really switch bodies? he wouldn't even know what is really happening afterward, because he would believe he's Peter in Ock's body.

 

[Maboroshi]

The teaser for Avenging Spider-Man 17 (I believe) said Superior Spidey teams up with the FF when the literal future crashes down on them, threatening to reveal Superior Spidey's greatest secret.
What in the future would cause Superior Spidey's greatest secret [BLACKOUT](i.e. being Doc Ock)[/BLACKOUT] to come down? Perhaps [BLACKOUT]in the future, the identity is revealed and Peter is restored to the Spider-Man identity?[/BLACKOUT]

Something like that makes me think of [BLACKOUT]Miguel [/BLACKOUT]again.

I still wonder if somehow this is all misdirection and he really is [BLACKOUT]Miguel[/BLACKOUT].