World The Ultimate Spider-Man Animated Series Discussion Thread - Part 2

[TheVileOne]

You said it wasn't that successful. In your next sentence you say MAINLY because Weisman was attached. That kinda looks like your saying he was the MAIN reason the show was unsuccessful.

Since there seems to be some confusion here would you mind explaining what you meant?

It was revered as saint-like because of Weisman's involvement.

 

[Spider2099]

I never knew who Weisman was before TSSM.

 

[Lantern Venom]

It's revered online as this almost saintly thing. It wasn't that successful. Mainly because Greg Weisman was attached to it.

You're correct. The storytelling was good, mainly because it adapted many of the original 616 events from Spidey, but the animation was terrible for the most part.

 

[Spider2099]

I never had an issue with the animation.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

You're correct. The storytelling was good, mainly because it adapted many of the original 616 events from Spidey, but the animation was terrible for the most part.

It wasn't the animation you disliked... it was the character designs.

The Spectacular Spider-Man was wonderfully animated.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

It was revered as saint-like because of Weisman's involvement.

I've never heard the show called "saint-like" before. I didn't even know who Weisman was until after watching TSSM. I had seen Gargoyles previously but never paid attention to the creator. I always thought TSSM was a good show because it's actually really good. But if we're going by Weisman i.e. Gargoyles, TSSM, Rebels, then, yeah, all his work is consistent with high quality writing and design.

It wasn't the animation you disliked... it was the character designs.

The Spectacular Spider-Man was wonderfully animated.

Thank you. Character design and animation are separate entities. I wish more people would realize this.

 

[Spider2099]

I love both the character designs and animation. The only time I had an "issue" with the animation is when the action scenes go into slow motion when it's unnecessary.

 

[DawnWarrior]

TSSM's character design, by Sean "Cheeks" Galloway, is very stripped-down and simplified, and it really is a common complaint for people discovering the series. What you discover is that it actually allows for more fluid animation, which means faster, more dynamic action sequences on a tighter budget. The 90's cartoon had the reverse: very detailed character design, which tended to make the action scenes rougher and less streamlined (that and the network's draconian restrictions on violence.)

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I never knew who Weisman was before TSSM.

Me too.
I knew Gargoyles existed, had no idea who is behind it, the idea was not appealing to me when I first saw bits of episode 1.
Spectacular Spider-Man animated is the most fun I had with a Spider-Man cartoon since the 80s cartoons, and the 80s cartoons remain high as my favorite Spider-Man cartoons, Spectacular stands right besides them.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I confess enjoying this show, enjoy watching most of its episodes again and again, I've been saying that for a while. A couple of episodes seem unbearable for a while, but I enjoy them after a rewatch, that is my case as a Spider-Man geek who is bound to like almost everything with Spider-Man's name stapled on it, I'm not sure if I would have hated it if not for that, I know I'd probably enjoy it less than I do now, even while taking it for what it is.

Honest review of the show so far, trying not to sound like a fanboy or something:

Spectacular Spider-Man stunned lots of fans, in a positive way, it displayed how a great Spider-Man series looks like, that series is not without its faults, like sometimes breaking midway through a battle for a segway scene, then going back for it, but it remained consistently good, with great presentation of characters, and Spider-Man's profile as a loner.

Then came this show; Ultimate Spider-Man. The promise Joe Quesada gave us is seeing Spider-Man as we've never scene him before, as an old fan I see some truth in what he said, there are things we have never seen before in an adaption, and some things we've never seen before, but there are things we have seen.
We saw Spider-Man deliver quips in everything, be a member of a team of teenage heroes that includes at least one female member (Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends), as a teenager (60s cartoon, Spider-Friends, and Spectacular), in high school (Bakshi's portion of 60s Spider-Man, and Spectacular), we saw him facing the audience and talking in the 60s cartoon.
The new things for a Spider-Man cartoon are him pausing in midair while everything is gray but him, joke on when they make fun of his joke, and the tiny figures, and him being trained to be a better hero, causing less damage.

The show has it's share of good things, it's not without them, the art design is good, the animation is pretty good, sometimes stunning, and Spider-Man power display is nice and well rounded.
The banter can be good at times, not always, Drake Bell's voice as the titular character and his delivery of one liners is passable.

What made this a disappointment is how Spider-Man can be overly defendant on the need for teammates sometimes, the way Spider-Man pauses mid battle or mid touching moment sometimes to be the exposition medium, and sometimes the cutaway jokes to explain his joke or poke fun of it, making it like a Looney Tune cartoon. Another problem with how Spider-Man acts is using the power against the villain, like he did against Electro, then brags about it to his pals, and when he says words he doesn't know what they mean like "coup de grace".


Overall, it's a C- show, nothing Spectacular, but better than being an Ultimate Let Down.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

TSSM's character design, by Sean "Cheeks" Galloway, is very stripped-down and simplified, and it really is a common complaint for people discovering the series. What you discover is that it actually allows for more fluid animation, which means faster, more dynamic action sequences on a tighter budget. The 90's cartoon had the reverse: very detailed character design, which tended to make the action scenes rougher and less streamlined (that and the network's draconian restrictions on violence.)

I like both designs. Both work good for each show.

 

[spiderman2]

I just have to say that it really sucks that this crap show has gotten 3 season and may be getting a 4th when the great SSM only got 2 season and I had heard a few month ago that this show got cancled but now I am hearing that may not be the cause so I don't know what happened. The sooner this show ends the better. Can only hope that when we get the next sm cartoon that it is a lot lot better.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I confess enjoying this show, enjoy watching most of its episodes again and again, I've been saying that for a while. A couple of episodes seem unbearable for a while, but I enjoy them after a rewatch, that is my case as a Spider-Man geek who is bound to like almost everything with Spider-Man's name stapled on it, I'm not sure if I would have hated it if not for that, I know I'd probably enjoy it less than I do now, even while taking it for what it is.

Nice post, Aziz. Though I must ask, what do you think is the reason that makes an "unbearable" episode become "enjoyable" after a rewatch?

I only ask because that is quite the turn-around. For something to go from what is essentially unwatchable and become something that is satisfying only after one rewatch. Curious to hear your thoughts.

I just have to say that it really sucks that this crap show has gotten 3 season and may be getting a 4th when the great SSM only got 2 season and I had heard a few month ago that this show got cancled but now I am hearing that may not be the cause so I don't know what happened. The sooner this show ends the better. Can only hope that when we get the next sm cartoon that it is a lot lot better.

TSSM wasn't cancelled because of lack of quality--it was caught in a case of bad timing. Weisman explained how/why the show wasn't able to continue on his site, askgreg. Basically, the rights were caught in limbo as Disney bought the animation rights from Sony but Sony still owns the rights for TSSM.

USM probably isn't going anywhere. It's hitting strong ratings in the 6-10 year old market and doing really well with merchandising. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. As long as the show makes enough coin, they won't cancel it just to make a bunch of CB nerds happy.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

That is stupid that it ended because of rights issues. Lose the best show because of that. Very annoying.

 

[spiderman2]

Nice post, Aziz. Though I must ask, what do you think is the reason that makes an "unbearable" episode become "enjoyable" after a rewatch?

I only ask because that is quite the turn-around. For something to go from what is essentially unwatchable and become something that is satisfying only after one rewatch. Curious to hear your thoughts.



TSSM wasn't cancelled because of lack of quality--it was caught in a case of bad timing. Weisman explained how/why the show wasn't able to continue on his site, askgreg. Basically, the rights were caught in limbo as Disney bought the animation rights from Sony but Sony still owns the rights for TSSM.

USM probably isn't going anywhere. It's hitting strong ratings in the 6-10 year old market and doing really well with merchandising. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. As long as the show makes enough coin, they won't cancel it just to make a bunch of CB nerds happy.

While I know about TSSM but it still sucks and when it comes to USM the sooner it ends the sooner we may get a good sm cartoon again. A lot of people are unhappy with the last sever sm movies and talk about how it has been 11 years sinces the last good/great one in sm2 and now we are going thought the same thing with sm cartoons if this show dosnt end soon. I have a hard time belive that the rating could be that good for this show has it is so bad and I think it is more then just a buch of nerds that fell that way and like I said I heard it had been cancled at one point so I don't know why that changed.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

While I know about TSSM but it still sucks and when it comes to USM the sooner it ends the sooner we may get a good sm cartoon again. A lot of people are unhappy with the last sever sm movies and talk about how it has been 11 years sinces the last good/great one in sm2 and now we are going thought the same thing with sm cartoons if this show dosnt end soon. I have a hard time belive that the rating could be that good for this show has it is so bad and I think it is more then just a buch of nerds that fell that way and like I said I heard it had been cancled at one point so I don't know why that changed.

USM being cancelled was just a rumor, right?? I never saw anything confirming a cancellation. I also haven't seen anything confirming a 4th season either. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I agree that Spidey has had much better times in the animation dept but USM is actually doing really well with its intended market. I just don't see them cancelling something that is earning good ratings and generating a profit only because people outside the intended market are clamoring for something different. Sure, to you and me, this is a no-brainer. We aren't thrilled with USM and so we would prefer it go away and be replaced. The guys cashing the checks, however, see it differently.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Nice post, Aziz. Though I must ask, what do you think is the reason that makes an "unbearable" episode become "enjoyable" after a rewatch?

I only ask because that is quite the turn-around. For something to go from what is essentially unwatchable and become something that is satisfying only after one rewatch. Curious to hear your thoughts.

Thanks, and sorry for late reply.

What makes the unbearable bearable is having Spider-Man as a centeric character. I hated Web of Shadows for years, now I enjoy it.
I hated the style of Todd McFarlane and Erik Larsen, I started bearing them because Spider-Man.
I have what might be a problem, if Spider-Man is in something, I can't hate it, or if I did hate it, I can't stay hating it.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

The latest episode with Rhino, Venom, and Hulk is pretty 'eh'.
It has some nice touches, but it's pretty average, and I think no cutaways.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Thanks, and sorry for late reply.

What makes the unbearable bearable is having Spider-Man as a centeric character. I hated Web of Shadows for years, now I enjoy it.
I hated the style of Todd McFarlane and Erik Larsen, I started bearing them because Spider-Man.
I have what might be a problem, if Spider-Man is in something, I can't hate it, or if I did hate it, I can't stay hating it.

No worries.

This is where I guess we differ. I can't like something just because it has Spider-Man in it. There's good and bad qualities to all adaptations whether it's in tv shows, comics, video games, movies, etc. and I look for the good qualities. But I don't ignore the bad ones. And if there's some type of adaptation that has enough bad qualities that it becomes either unenjoyable or unbearable, or just something that I find in poor taste, Spider-Man doesn't change that for me.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

No worries.

This is where I guess we differ. I can't like something just because it has Spider-Man in it. There's good and bad qualities to all adaptations whether it's in tv shows, comics, video games, movies, etc. and I look for the good qualities. But I don't ignore the bad ones. And if there's some type of adaptation that has enough bad qualities that it becomes either unenjoyable or unbearable, or just something that I find in poor taste, Spider-Man doesn't change that for me.

Spider-Man makes me enjoy it, doesn't mean I won't poke fun at what I see is a flaw in it.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Spider-Man makes me enjoy it, doesn't mean I won't poke fun at what I see is a flaw in it.

If Spider-Man is in something that I think is poorly made and/or especially if the way Spider-Man is portrayed is poorly done, I have a difficult time finding enjoyment.

But, I find it interesting that just because of Spider-Man's involvement in something that you consider "unbearable" you then find it "enjoyable" only after one rewatch. It's interesting to me because I don't follow the same thought process, obviously.

It's like with the USM cartoon. One the whole this is a bad series to the point where I can hardly watch it. Though I've found some pieces here and there that were enjoyable moments, it doesn't elevate the show to a level where I can rewatch it and feel differently.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Edit

 

[Spider-Aziz]

If Spider-Man is in something that I think is poorly made and/or especially if the way Spider-Man is portrayed is poorly done, I have a difficult time finding enjoyment.

But, I find it interesting that just because of Spider-Man's involvement in something that you consider "unbearable" you then find it "enjoyable" only after one rewatch. It's interesting to me because I don't follow the same thought process, obviously.

It's like with the USM cartoon. One the whole this is a bad series to the point where I can hardly watch it. Though I've found some pieces here and there that were enjoyable moments, it doesn't elevate the show to a level where I can rewatch it and feel differently.

Sometimes it takes more than rewatch, and I can hate a thing for years.
I hated Web of Shadows for a few years, maybe 3.5-4 years it was on my hate list, but then I grew over the bitter hatred I had for it. Some of the fancy mechanics helped.

Something really bad I can enjoy watching because it has Spider-Man in it, although I hate (I don't know how can I enjoy something I hate, but it happened) is the Ralph Bakshi stuff from the 60s series.

 

[MrSpyder]

Saw Part 1 of Spider-Verse today, I guess this is it, the last Hoorah. Well I like the art from Spider-Man 2099, not sure on the voice actor of him though.

 

[Grievous]

I too saw part 1 of the Spider-Verse arch. Haven't really commented on the show till now, no where near as enjoyable as Spectacular Spider-Man. This show has it's moments and there have been some episodes I enjoyed, but there is a lot that I don't like either.

Back to the Spider-Verse episode, anyone else happy to see the classic Goblin look on Norma Osborn from the Spider-Girl universe? It's crazy that an alternate female Goblin stays true to the original look more than the show's actual Goblin.