The Walking Dead The Walking Dead Season 5, Episode 16 "Conquer" Discussion Thread

[Drizzle]

I thought this was the best finale so far. Part of me was expecting a main character to die, but I figured we've had enough deaths this season between Bob, Tyreese, Noah and Beth. I'm dying to see what happens next, but it wasn't a frustrating cliffhanger like season 4. I also have a feeling that the Wolves storyline will be wrapped up early in the season much like Termites, hopefully making way for Negan and the Saviors later on in season 6.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm kind of curious to see what they do with Gabriel next, since it already seems like they're going in a different direction with what happened in last night's episode.

In the comics, they got to Alexandria, he delivered his little bulls*** warning to Douglas, Douglas told him "We've all done things to survive. If you don't like it, **** or get out" and he basically becomes a non-entity from then on. From what I've read, he never really had that kind of crisis like last night.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I still hope he gets ripped to shreds by a horde of zombies.

A Noah-style death would be too humane for him, the little f***er.

 

[chamber-music]

I loved Abraham's line "there is a vast ocean of s*** that you people don't know s*** about"

Thank god Morgan is a badass

Morgan developed ninja skills to go along with his booby trap skills.

Sasha... Weirdo

I was surprised she didn't die.

Ugh can Nicholas die already?

Glenn saved his life and Nicholas tried to kill him.

Morgan BETTER be a series regular next season, dammit!!!

You better hope his British medical show Critical doesn't get another season then

 

[Sun_Down]

This show is so entertaining, but man, the characters are so poorly drawn. Glenn and Maggie might be the only believable characters left. Heck, Eugune, Abraham, and crew are at least logical. Everyone else just seems to be whatever the show needs them to be.

I don't buy Sasha's PTSD, Gabriel literally had multiple personalities, and even Rick is all over the place. I get that we were watching his descent into "we are the waking dead" and all. And it's fun to watch. But he loses it because that hair dresser like-likes him?

And Lady Governor and her people were either so cartoonishly evil or unrealistically stupid that I kinda didn't care what happened to any of them.

They flirted with so many good issues this season: the need for law and order, the social contract, and self-forgiveness. But instead of actually exploring any of them, or having any real tension, they just set us up with another set of unrelatable sociopaths as antagonists. Rick does badass things, and scene.

I'm hoping that Morgan and Glenn truly challenge Rick next season. There's so much fertile ground there.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I was surprised she didn't die.

apparently all those walkers would be camouflage coz of the stank.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Loved this finale, great stuff, so many good things happened, Morgan is back! And that ending, can't wait to see what Morgan makes of Rick now.

 

[E-Man]

Wow!!!! This is the best show!!!

Rick and the Alexandrians vs The Wolf Pack next season!!!


Is there any show better than this???!!!

well...

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Kane52630]

 

[E-Man]

Morgan vs. Stick from Daredevil needs to happen.

 

[Sawyer]

Curious to see what becomes of Jessie and Pete's sons. There's only one in the comics, so I wonder which gets his stories. I would assume the older one, just because he's got the friendship with Carl and was left out of the abuse allegations against Pete, so I wonder if he might take greater issue with Rick executing him than Sam would. If that's the case, I wonder where they'll go with Sam.

 

[Spider-Who?]

...the characters are so poorly drawn. Glenn and Maggie might be the only believable characters left. Heck, Eugune, Abraham, and crew are at least logical. Everyone else just seems to be whatever the show needs them to be.

I don't buy Sasha's PTSD, Gabriel literally had multiple personalities, and even Rick is all over the place. I get that we were watching his descent into "we are the waking dead" and all. And it's fun to watch. But he loses it because that hair dresser like-likes him?

And Lady Governor and her people were either so cartoonishly evil or unrealistically stupid that I kinda didn't care what happened to any of them.

They flirted with so many good issues this season: the need for law and order, the social contract, and self-forgiveness. But instead of actually exploring any of them, or having any real tension, they just set us up with another set of unrelatable sociopaths as antagonists. Rick does badass things, and scene.

I couldn't disagree with this more. The show illustrates the characters perfectly fine. They show plenty but leave enough subtlety to allow the viewer to interpret and fill in the blanks (which I love) while revealing a character's motivations and personality over time. If you prefer characters walk around with big signs over their heads and constantly talk about their motivations over and over again, watch Arrow

Edit: if this post seems aggressive, I apologize; it's not meant to be. My brain is just too fried at the moment to reword it any better. The show's writing isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than you're giving it credit, I feel. Cheers

 

[Spider-Vader]

I wonder where next season will start. I hope it's not too long after the end of this episode, I want to see how Rick & the group changes the town.

 

[DyeLorean]

I have to admit, I've been critical about this show, specially around the third season, but I'm very happy with the pacing they've managed to create as of right now, this last year. Not only within the episode but the structure of the season has been very satisfying for me.

I always liked the survival aspect, where they're out there discovering new places, walking around, finding stuff, and there was plenty of that this season, and the topics they've introduced later on are quite interesting.
Like I said, I've been vocal about the show when it wasn't very good, so I have to be fair and be vocal when is this entertaining.
I don't like this half-seasons stuff though. It builds momentum and then it's over, they need this kind of big episodes sometime during the season too, not just the finales.

 

[Sawyer]

I wonder where next season will start. I hope it's not too long after the end of this episode, I want to see how Rick & the group changes the town.

With the way it ended, I imagine it won't pick up right where it ended, but I also don't imagine they'll jump too far ahead. Maybe it'll be like the gap between S1 and S2, where they were out on the road for a bit after the CDC.

 

[Brother Jack]

All in all I thought this was a good finale and a good season, better on average than several of the past ones. But its old problems are still prevalent. The heavy-handed thematic redundancy and thin character writing. Prior to the nadir of Beth's death I thought of it as finally living up to its potential. I'd actually still count the back half of Season 4 and the first half of Season 5 as the most consistently good run of episodes the show's done to date. It floundered in several ways after that but I was still into it. Looking forward to the fall, that's for sure.

 

[Brownbear]

 

[Evelisse]

I hope they don't jump ahead at all, after everything that has happened I really want to see the first conversation between Rick and Morgan, feel a little cheated we didn't get that before it was all over Sunday.

 

[bullets]

I thought this was the best finale so far. Part of me was expecting a main character to die, but I figured we've had enough deaths this season between Bob, Tyreese, Noah and Beth. I'm dying to see what happens next, but it wasn't a frustrating cliffhanger like season 4. I also have a feeling that the Wolves storyline will be wrapped up early in the season much like Termites, hopefully making way for Negan and the Saviors later on in season 6.

The Wolves seem kind of weak but if they unload one of those trucks on Alexandria it will cause a huge impact. I don't think we'll see Negan til the finale .

 

[bullets]

I hope they don't jump ahead at all, after everything that has happened I really want to see the first conversation between Rick and Morgan, feel a little cheated we didn't get that before it was all over Sunday.

Im hoping the same thing . I want to see the fallout of Glenn and Nicholas coming in wounded, Morgan reacting to Rick, and Gabriel leaving the gate open. It should pick up right where it left off or I'll kinda feel cheated.

 

[Elevator Man]

The season 5 finale “Conquer” was a good episode, but nothing spectacular for a finale, to an overall great season. I also think it didn’t need to be 90 minutes long. It could’ve been paced tighter in the shows regular format. It came off like another episode of TWD and not a season finale, imo, anyway. I guess I expected too much with all the hype behind it started by Reedus, Gale Anne Hurd, fans, and with it being a 90 minute season finale. I was hoping it would take the show in another unexpected direction like this season’s “Remember”, but oh well.

I enjoyed Morgan’s return. And thought the first 5 mins was easily the highlight of the episode for me. I was concerned for Morgan b/c there was a rumor going around (after last week's ep) of how Aaron and Daryl saw the aftermath of two victims (one in pieces and a naked dead woman tortured and tied around a tree) killed by the Wolves. A lot were speculating it was Morgan‘s body parts that was all over the ground b/c both wore similar clothing. I almost thought they were showing how it played out. Thank goodness that wasn’t the case. But the “Wolves” seem less intimidating now after Morgan went all book of Eli on them. I don’t see them as much of threat to Rick’s group now. It's a pity Morgan didn’t kill ‘em b/c they killed the guy Daryl and Aaron were interested in recruiting. Plus now they’ll be headed to Alexandria to cause more trouble. Hopefully we get a Morgan centered episode next season showing what led him from “clear” to the “all life is precious” path.

Speaking of Daryl and Aaron. It’s been a long time since I been concerned for Daryl on this show. Actually thought either he or Aaron would sacrifice himself so the other could escape or go out like Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid did. But Morgan saved them in the nick of time. Great moment. Especially when Daryl realizes he was looking for Rick.

Glenn should’ve killed Nicholas. I know it’s against his code and nature. And he doesn’t want to lose his humanity. But those type of decisions is what made Tyreese naive (remember Martin) and put the group in danger before (Andrew, The Governor, and Terminus). It’s a kill or be killed world now. It would’ve been self defense and justified for him to kill Nicholas. Nicholas tried to kill him twice in this episode alone, got Noah killed, attempted to leave him and Eugene for dead, and along with Aiden got 4 Alexandrians killed on past supply runs. He’s a useless coward, a liability, and a threat to Alexandria and especially Rick’s group. I think it also would’ve been an interesting turning point for Glenn if he had killed Nicholas. I guess he kept Nicholas alive to train and teach him how to be a better survivor instead of a weakling. I don’t know how I feel about that but I have a feeling this will bite Glenn in the butt later. He gave this weasel too many chances. I wonder if Nicholas had shot Maggie and nearly gotten her killed would Glenn had been as merciful. Doubtful.

Also I didn’t buy how Glenn somehow escaped three walkers piling up on him with his wounded shoulder. That was an impossible situation to get out of without getting bit but somehow Glenn did it. Hated how they cut away but didn’t bother showing the aftermath of how Glenn defeated the walkers and escaped death. It was a cheat.

Good to see Abraham and Eugene patch things up after the lie. I felt they left that plotline in the back burner for most of the second half of the season. So it was great to get some closure on the matter and seeing both characters moving forward.

The Gabriel ratting out on Rick’s group subplot didn’t go anywhere even though the writers made a big deal out of it. Maggie never confronted Gabriel about it or even told Rick and co. about it. So what was the point of having Maggie eavesdrop on that conversation? To give something for her to do on the finale. Deanna had to bring it up Gabriel backstabbing at the counsel. And the group didn’t seem to care when she did. It didn’t add anything of importance to the overall plot. The fact that Maggie and Gabriel were absent in the episode that followed it and that Deanna didn’t mention it till the season finale makes it more shallow. Even the way it was resolved was sloppy and rushed. They shouldn’t have made a big deal about Gabriel twisting the truth about the group if that’s how they resolve it. B/c honestly I think this should’ve progressed to next season. They only resolved this and Sasha’s PTSD plotline b/c it was the season finale.

I guess forgiveness is one of this episodes themes b/c Glenn somehow forgave Nicholas for trying to kill him, Abraham and Eugene finally forgave each other. So I guess Maggie and Gabriel fall in line with that.

The Pete/Jessie storyline could’ve been handled better, imo. In fact I think this could’ve continued on to next season but b/c it was the finale they had to provide closure. The whole storyline was poorly constructed and executed b/c Jessie didn’t come off like a victim of domestic abuse. She didn’t have any visible bruises or anything. Compare her to Carol in season 1. And Pete is just a one dimensional wife abuser who’s supposedly this gifted doctor/surgeon according to Aaron. The writers didn't allow the viewers the opportunity to see his skills as this “gifted surgeon”. They’ve had plenty of opportunities like when Rick’s group first settled in Alexandria Pete could’ve given each of ’em check ups. Or showed him trying to save Tara. The writers and characters keep telling us how great of a surgeon Pete is but never show us, which made it difficult for me to believe that Pete was an actual doctor/surgeon let alone a gifted one, imo It would’ve made it more interesting seeing Rick deciding to whether or not to kill Pete b/c like Aaron said “saw him do amazing things”. I don’t think they did a good job of showing that he abused Jessie and Sam either. Again the writers have the characters tell us instead of showing us. It also felt too convenient and sloppy how Pete walked into the counsel with Michonne’s katana and slit Reg’s neck. To me this is easily the weakest storyline of season 5 ( yes I’ll take the Beth and Dawn storyline over this) b/c there was so much potential with it.

 

[the dmg]

This finale was great. The time seemed to fly quickly. I like new Book of Eli Morgan, and it will be interesting when they explore what caused Morgan to view all life as precious, including the people trying to harm you.

I loved that the scene with Nicholas drawing Glenn out to the woods. It reminded me a lot as a sort of parallel to what Shane tried to do with Rick, except Glenn didn't realize that was the plan. It really took a lot for Glenn not to kill him, but it shows how much different he is from Rick. I kind of wished they showed how he was able to escape from the walkers that were piling on him.

And Carol. She is so awesome. The way she's been keeping herself in the shadows, and how she knows when the right time for taking action are was well done. The end scene with Pete, she signals Rick to pretty much let Pete dig his own grave because if Rick acted first, the situation could have gone a completely different way.

Abraham's speech about Rick was ****ing amazing.

All in all, great stuff. There's more to be said about the things that happened in the episode, but it's time for bed.

I'm glad that the spin-off will run during the breaks of TWD. It's a good idea that hopefully won't backfire and burn out viewers.

 

[Joesh]

The ending was too jumbled at first viewing. Gimple's writing/story take was weird throughout the entire ep.

 

[Golgo-13]

Yeah, Abraham's speech about Rick was sig worthy.