The Wrestling Gospel
- Thread starter The Sage
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Random Raw Comments
- Santino's new Ferrari T-shirt is awesome.
- While Lawler and Cole were introducing Cena's new movie, some random girl behind was passionately singing along to the RAW theme song. I'm surprised she knew all the words!
- One of the paparazzi during the Melina entrance was also in the background when Stephanie McMahon was walking in the back. An extra working double duty. Nice.
- Shane McMahon destroying 3 guys was ridicilous.
- Since Cena used his left hand to sign the contract, (and I recall HBK signs with his left) I found it interesting that Cena and HBK wrestle as if they're right-handed.
- After Cena pushed JBL into Michaels at the end of the match, Lawler claimed he didn't see what happened and needed a replay to clarify what happened...because he only has the closest seats in the entire arena.
- Shad has the worst finisher in the history of anything.
- Orton's punt on Vince must have been replayed 12,000 in every possible angle and speed in the past week.
- Santino's new Ferrari T-shirt is awesome.
- While Lawler and Cole were introducing Cena's new movie, some random girl behind was passionately singing along to the RAW theme song. I'm surprised she knew all the words!
- One of the paparazzi during the Melina entrance was also in the background when Stephanie McMahon was walking in the back. An extra working double duty. Nice.
- Shane McMahon destroying 3 guys was ridicilous.
- Since Cena used his left hand to sign the contract, (and I recall HBK signs with his left) I found it interesting that Cena and HBK wrestle as if they're right-handed.
- After Cena pushed JBL into Michaels at the end of the match, Lawler claimed he didn't see what happened and needed a replay to clarify what happened...because he only has the closest seats in the entire arena.
- Shad has the worst finisher in the history of anything.
- Orton's punt on Vince must have been replayed 12,000 in every possible angle and speed in the past week.
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Superark
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Man that ending was horrible! How on Earth can a fat, out of shape, pudgy Shane McMahon beat up the entire Legacy?!?!
The McMahon's must be intent on making their wrestlers look weak at their expense. First Jericho, now Legacy.
I liked the idea of Shane attacking Orton at the end, but he should have gotten outnumbered and started getting beat up, only to have a couple of the 20 somethings wrestlers that were onstage come down to help him while Legacy made their escape.
But nope, Shane-O-Mac was Superman tonight. Then to make matters worse, Shane started beating up the babyface onstage trying to calm him down. WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!
This was just horrible, even the crowd started to turn on the segment real quick.
Oh and another huge pet peeve I have is that is Orton's title shot seems to be taking a backseat to his fued with McMahon.
The McMahon's must be intent on making their wrestlers look weak at their expense. First Jericho, now Legacy.
I liked the idea of Shane attacking Orton at the end, but he should have gotten outnumbered and started getting beat up, only to have a couple of the 20 somethings wrestlers that were onstage come down to help him while Legacy made their escape.
But nope, Shane-O-Mac was Superman tonight. Then to make matters worse, Shane started beating up the babyface onstage trying to calm him down. WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!
This was just horrible, even the crowd started to turn on the segment real quick.
Oh and another huge pet peeve I have is that is Orton's title shot seems to be taking a backseat to his fued with McMahon.
The Sage
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It would fix the Legacy looking weak problem, but I don't know how I feel about Shane's involvement in Legacy.
Yeah, the ending was terrible. And about Orton's title shot, I'm guessing they'll address it the night after No Way Out. It doesn't matter, we all know it's Randy Orton vs. Jack Swagger in the WM main event. That's a money maker.
Superark
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agreed!
Jay#1
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yea i remember when stone cold won the rumble in 2001 and the focus was on his feud with hhh for no way out.
The Sage
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Thinking the same thing.
Darkness Falls
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^^^
That was A damn good match between Stone Cold/HHH
That was A damn good match between Stone Cold/HHH
Donnie Darko
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I actually thought the best part of the closing segment was Shane punching out Kofi. I laughed pretty hard at that.
Darkness Falls
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[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-USUL8ZCvs[/YT]
It's really bad quality
For anyone who missed the end of raw
or wants to re-watch for fun
It's really bad quality
For anyone who missed the end of raw
or wants to re-watch for fun
Fading
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Haven't watched RAW yet since I wanted to finish the rumble first. Rumble was good tho. I have to admit I didn't like who won the rumble, or the idea of Matt's turn, even tho I thought Matt's turn was well executed.
Matt's expression tho after hitting Jeff, and the announcers going silent, was very well played. Tho I do worry about Matt's ability to rebound after this story. I did slow-mo the actual chair shot tho, the crowds reaction behind Matt was ****ing priceless lol, lotsa O faces.
My other favorite parts of the night were RVD coming back (loved it, even if just for one night), and Jericho tossing out RVD with Undertaker behind him staring, that was an awesome camera angle for that.
Other than that tho, not too much else special. I fast forwarded thru the diva match. Jeff vs. Edge was so so until Matt got involved. JBL vs. Cena was a snorefest until HBK got involved. Matt vs. Swagger was alright, but not great. Also Koslov botched a few things when he first entered the rumble. Still liked it tho.
Matt's expression tho after hitting Jeff, and the announcers going silent, was very well played. Tho I do worry about Matt's ability to rebound after this story. I did slow-mo the actual chair shot tho, the crowds reaction behind Matt was ****ing priceless lol, lotsa O faces.
My other favorite parts of the night were RVD coming back (loved it, even if just for one night), and Jericho tossing out RVD with Undertaker behind him staring, that was an awesome camera angle for that.
Other than that tho, not too much else special. I fast forwarded thru the diva match. Jeff vs. Edge was so so until Matt got involved. JBL vs. Cena was a snorefest until HBK got involved. Matt vs. Swagger was alright, but not great. Also Koslov botched a few things when he first entered the rumble. Still liked it tho.
The Sage
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http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/c...-The-Myth-of-Vinnie-Mac-and-The-Macho-Man.htm
THIS WEEK'S PATIENT: WHAT IS UP WITH VINNIE MAC AND THE MACHO MAN?
One of the most common topics of discussion, speculation, and rumor on the IWC is the status of Randy "Macho Man" Savage's relationship with Vince McMahon and the WWE.
The story goes like this (as far as anyone knows): Savage left the WWF in November 1994 after nine highly successful years in order to pursue an opportunity with WCW. Savage had been increasingly unhappy with the way in which the WWF had used him since the end of 1992, when McMahon decided to go with a New Generation of stars. Savage spent two years floating between the announce table and occasional mid-level feuds, but the Macho Man believed that he still had several good ring years left in him. Savage spent five years in WCW as a top star before pricing himself out of a renewal deal.
The reasons for Savage's departure from the WWF have been the source of the speculation. The common story is that Savage slept with an underage Stephanie McMahon. Vince found out about it, and banned Savage forever from the WWE Universe. Bret Hart stated that Savage quit the WWF via a drunken phone call. Certainly not the most tactful method of resignation, but there have been relationships in the WWF that have ended under much worse circumstances. Others have speculated that Vince was upset over Savage jumping ship to WCW.
What I have not seen discussed on the IWC regarding the situation is that McMahon publicly thanked the Macho Man for his years of service to the WWF on Savage's final episode of Monday Night Raw. It was in early or mid-November 1994, prior to Survivor Series. Savage was doing color commentary, and as the show ended McMahon acknowledged that he was leaving the company and thanked him for all that he had done for the WWF. The move was highly unusual for an era when the WWF never even recognized the existence of other wrestling companies. The moment was heavily discussed in the pre-IWC dirt sheets and wrestling mags for the uncharacteristic breaking of kayfabe.
So why would McMahon send the Macho Man off with pomp and circumstance if he was angry at his departure for WCW, or if Savage had quit via drunk dial? Vince certainly would not have given the Macho Man the time of day if he had slept with Stephanie. The gracious departure moment creates a significant problem for all of the commonly-accepted explanations for the McMahon-Savage tensions.
Possibly the Raw episode was taped (the WWF taped 2-3 weeks at once at the time), giving Savage the opportunity to later call Vince drunk, but that explanation is a long shot considering that Savage had obviously already given notice prior to the taping. The Raw moment kills the Stephanie theory, unless Vince found out about the incident after the Macho Man was safely in Atlanta. Even so, it was widely reported that Savage was negotiating with the WWF in the summer of 2000. Possibly the affair came to light at that time – hence the disintegration of negotiations – but it was rumored that Savage wanted far more money than the WWF was willing to pay for the services of an aged Macho Man. Eric Bischoff somewhat backed up such a story in his autobiography by discussing the Macho Man's increased demands at the end of his contract, as well as his increasing paranoia within the business.
Another big question would be why did Vince not press charges against Savage if he did indeed sleep with an underage Stephanie? Vince had just been acquitted in his steroid conspiracy trial in the summer of 1994, so possibly he did not want to provide any more negative publicity of the company or the business (Imagine the headline: "Wrestling magnate pimps underage daughter to talent"). The lack of charges also lends credence to the idea that maybe McMahon found out about the incident much later.
Of course, all of the Macho Man stories heavily circulated the nascent IWC in the mid-nineties, and anything that came off the web in the Monday Night War / Attitude Era is suspect. There was a lot more rumor floating around as fact then than now. Anyone remember The Giant's October 1996 US Title win over Ric Flair? How about Viscera's death in a car crash in late 1999? And do not forget that the reason for the switch to "Stone Cold" Steve Austin from The Ring Master was because WCW had planned to use the Stone Cold moniker for Kevin Nash.
The IWC is an interesting case study of internet-based communities. Like all sub-cultures, the IWC has its own accepted version of history as well as myths that have been repeated so often that they have become engrained in the fabric of the past. Somewhere in the early days of the IWC the gracious departure given Savage by the WWF in 1994 disappeared from the record. The internet provides immediate access to the past, but it also often removes those events from the original context, blurring the historical background. A lot of fans who got into wrestling during the Monday Night Wars may not even be aware of the moment (don't get your skid-marked briefs and Husky jeans in a bunch; that statement is not a knock on anyone.) The Raw moment is also in serious conflict with the intensity of Vince's reported hatred for Savage. The most likely explanation is a combination of the two, so that over the years the actual events got tangled up in the IWC mythology to the point where now the truth and rumor are inseparable.
Then again, maybe Vince invested heavily in Be A Man. If the WBF and XFL taught us anything, it is that he likes to get his money's worth
What we do know is that we will probably never know the truth, even if both parties come out and state their side, as both guys have a rich past of spinning events in their favor.
Of course, within a few years we may see the bastard child of Savage and Stephanie make his WWE debut in an attempt to gain revenge on his grandfather. If only…
THIS WEEK'S PATIENT: WHAT IS UP WITH VINNIE MAC AND THE MACHO MAN?
One of the most common topics of discussion, speculation, and rumor on the IWC is the status of Randy "Macho Man" Savage's relationship with Vince McMahon and the WWE.
The story goes like this (as far as anyone knows): Savage left the WWF in November 1994 after nine highly successful years in order to pursue an opportunity with WCW. Savage had been increasingly unhappy with the way in which the WWF had used him since the end of 1992, when McMahon decided to go with a New Generation of stars. Savage spent two years floating between the announce table and occasional mid-level feuds, but the Macho Man believed that he still had several good ring years left in him. Savage spent five years in WCW as a top star before pricing himself out of a renewal deal.
The reasons for Savage's departure from the WWF have been the source of the speculation. The common story is that Savage slept with an underage Stephanie McMahon. Vince found out about it, and banned Savage forever from the WWE Universe. Bret Hart stated that Savage quit the WWF via a drunken phone call. Certainly not the most tactful method of resignation, but there have been relationships in the WWF that have ended under much worse circumstances. Others have speculated that Vince was upset over Savage jumping ship to WCW.
What I have not seen discussed on the IWC regarding the situation is that McMahon publicly thanked the Macho Man for his years of service to the WWF on Savage's final episode of Monday Night Raw. It was in early or mid-November 1994, prior to Survivor Series. Savage was doing color commentary, and as the show ended McMahon acknowledged that he was leaving the company and thanked him for all that he had done for the WWF. The move was highly unusual for an era when the WWF never even recognized the existence of other wrestling companies. The moment was heavily discussed in the pre-IWC dirt sheets and wrestling mags for the uncharacteristic breaking of kayfabe.
So why would McMahon send the Macho Man off with pomp and circumstance if he was angry at his departure for WCW, or if Savage had quit via drunk dial? Vince certainly would not have given the Macho Man the time of day if he had slept with Stephanie. The gracious departure moment creates a significant problem for all of the commonly-accepted explanations for the McMahon-Savage tensions.
Possibly the Raw episode was taped (the WWF taped 2-3 weeks at once at the time), giving Savage the opportunity to later call Vince drunk, but that explanation is a long shot considering that Savage had obviously already given notice prior to the taping. The Raw moment kills the Stephanie theory, unless Vince found out about the incident after the Macho Man was safely in Atlanta. Even so, it was widely reported that Savage was negotiating with the WWF in the summer of 2000. Possibly the affair came to light at that time – hence the disintegration of negotiations – but it was rumored that Savage wanted far more money than the WWF was willing to pay for the services of an aged Macho Man. Eric Bischoff somewhat backed up such a story in his autobiography by discussing the Macho Man's increased demands at the end of his contract, as well as his increasing paranoia within the business.
Another big question would be why did Vince not press charges against Savage if he did indeed sleep with an underage Stephanie? Vince had just been acquitted in his steroid conspiracy trial in the summer of 1994, so possibly he did not want to provide any more negative publicity of the company or the business (Imagine the headline: "Wrestling magnate pimps underage daughter to talent"). The lack of charges also lends credence to the idea that maybe McMahon found out about the incident much later.
Of course, all of the Macho Man stories heavily circulated the nascent IWC in the mid-nineties, and anything that came off the web in the Monday Night War / Attitude Era is suspect. There was a lot more rumor floating around as fact then than now. Anyone remember The Giant's October 1996 US Title win over Ric Flair? How about Viscera's death in a car crash in late 1999? And do not forget that the reason for the switch to "Stone Cold" Steve Austin from The Ring Master was because WCW had planned to use the Stone Cold moniker for Kevin Nash.
The IWC is an interesting case study of internet-based communities. Like all sub-cultures, the IWC has its own accepted version of history as well as myths that have been repeated so often that they have become engrained in the fabric of the past. Somewhere in the early days of the IWC the gracious departure given Savage by the WWF in 1994 disappeared from the record. The internet provides immediate access to the past, but it also often removes those events from the original context, blurring the historical background. A lot of fans who got into wrestling during the Monday Night Wars may not even be aware of the moment (don't get your skid-marked briefs and Husky jeans in a bunch; that statement is not a knock on anyone.) The Raw moment is also in serious conflict with the intensity of Vince's reported hatred for Savage. The most likely explanation is a combination of the two, so that over the years the actual events got tangled up in the IWC mythology to the point where now the truth and rumor are inseparable.
Then again, maybe Vince invested heavily in Be A Man. If the WBF and XFL taught us anything, it is that he likes to get his money's worth
What we do know is that we will probably never know the truth, even if both parties come out and state their side, as both guys have a rich past of spinning events in their favor.
Of course, within a few years we may see the bastard child of Savage and Stephanie make his WWE debut in an attempt to gain revenge on his grandfather. If only…
BlackLantern
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I never bought the Savage/Steph story....hadn't even heard of it until just a couple years ago....I do however believe that Randy Orton let Brooke Hogan have it.....
Ultimate_Superman
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