The Wrestling Thread generates more income than Darren Young - Part 76

[Metallo]

Police Release Details On Mike Graham's Death - Suicide Expected Outcome


By Daniel Pena on 10/25/2012

A report released by Daytona Beach police confirms that Michael Gossett, known in professional wrestling as Mike Graham, was found dead "lying face up" on a bed Thursday night in a North Halifax Drive home from an apparent self-inflicted "gunshot wound to the forehead."

The 61-year-old was found dead by his wife, with police and paramedics responding to a 911 call at 8:47 p.m. for a report of a suicide. Graham's wife told police that the former wrestler "had threatened to commit suicide frequently ever since (his) son committed suicide two years prior during Biketoberfest."

According to the police report, a Freedom Arms .22 caliber revolver was found next to Graham's body, and was "lying face up on the bed with a gunshot wound to the forehead."

Police are conducting a homicide investigation, which is standard procedure on these cases, and a ruling of suicide is expected to be determined.

Graham's father, Eddie Gossett, famously known as Eddie Graham, an influential Florida wrestling promoter, also committed suicide by a self-inflicted gunshot to the head on January 21, 1985.

Additional details on the case are available here.

Sounds like the Grahams have passed on that same curse the Von Erichs did

Simon Dean On Ryback's Ascension, Who He Sees As A Top Star, Ziggler


By Daniel Pena on 10/25/2012

Mike Bucci, who appeared in WWE as Simon Dean and ECW as Hollywood Nova, joined the VOC Wrestling Nation to discuss the career of Ryback, and how he ascended from a failed WWE Developmental project to being at the top of the card at WWE Hell in a Cell. Bucci was one of the head trainers when WWE Developmental was in Ohio Valley.

The VOC Wrestling Nation is the flagship program of the VOC Nation Radio Network, and can be heard every Wednesday at 5PM ET WORLDWIDE at VocNation.com.

Bucci discussed a variety of topics, and the entire interview can be heard at VocNation.com. Here are some highlights:

On being on the trainers in OVW that worked with Ryback: “I love the guy. People are looking at the guy like he’s an overnight success, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Ryback was originally discovered by Ty Bailey (former head of WWE developmental) to be a contestant for the first season of Tough Enough and he didn’t make it through. I guess they just didn’t think he had “it” at that time.

On Ryback being a wrestling fan: “He got signed to OVW and they used to call him the Silverback. This dude trained so hard inside the ring and out of it. He is a true wrestling fan; in this business, if you’re not a wrestling fan, you will not last. You’ll make money and get over, but there is a difference between making money and drawing money. The guys in this business who draw money are usually the guys who are fans of the business. He is a true fan and a great guy.”

On Ryback being compared to Goldberg: “Bill Goldberg came in and made wrestling cool. He was a butt kicker, and everyone knew who he was. There are three types of fans: 1)People who will always watch wrestling; 2) People who will never watch wrestilng; and 3) People who will watch wrestling when they think it’s cool to watch it, and Bill Goldberg brought out those types of fans. People are still talking about Bill Goldberg 10 years after his last match. (Ryback has the potential to be that.)”

On why Ryback will succeed: “(Ryback) busted his ass so hard to make it. This guy will not be a drug addict, he will not be a goof; he will not embarrass the company. If I were a kid right now, I would love this guy; he looks like a real life superhero. He’s a larger than life figure. When he comes out, you know things are going to happen, and people are going to get hurt. When you look at the roster, there is nobody else like that right now.”

On Ryback being able to survive as a character: “Vince always goes to the muscle guy. They had it with Cena for a long time. (Ryback) has a ton of personality. He can talk, he can do all of that; but people are going to pay to see him kick ass. They’re trying to build a star, so for me (on Sunday at WWE Hell in a Cell), he HAS to win. He’s gotta hit the finish 1-2-3 in the middle of the ring, no screwjobs. Wrestling titles are fake, nobody wins the title, it’s given to you. They have the opportunity to do something special here, and I hope they don’t screw it up.”

On the days of a slow build-up of a star being gone: “The slow build is done. There are so many channels on TV, and we live in an ADD society. People don’t have as much commitment anymore to sit there and salivate over a guy that they hope is being created over 6 months. “

On building the company around one particular guy: “Fans see the WWE as a show, and the guys on the show just happen to be part of that show…there is only one group of people that can’t be replaced on that roster and that’s the McMahon family. That’s why Vince made himself into the top heel in the late 90s. He knew that he was the only guy he could count on that would not leave for WCW. When you’re a WWE fan, you’re a fan of the brand. There’s never going to be another Rock, or another Stone Cold.”

On who are the top guys of the future: “Damien Sandow is a STAR, and they dropped the ball on him for 10 years. I told everyone who would listen that he was a star. When he failed the first time, he went to Puerto Rico and reinvented himself. What you see now is what he is in real life. This guy was at my house and had a conversation with my wife’s dog; that’s how nuts he is. (Damien) is in the top 5 of the workers in that company right now. I’m talking about the ability to work a gimmick, control the crowd, talk on the mic, and have a believable character. And he’s 6’4 260lbs.

On Dolph Ziggler and why he stays in the mid card: “He’s a great dude; he busted his ass. (Dolph) is successful because he’s a true wrestling fan. The people want him so bad, and if they don’t (push him) soon, they run the risk of having him always look like that guy who will never get over the hump.”

On CM Punk: “I have never seen anybody defy the odds of what he’s done. It doesn’t make any sense on how he got to where he is. So many people bashed him along the way, and only one guy believed in him: Vince McMahon. He doesn’t even look like a wrestler, but he hung in there and he made it.

The VOC Nation Radio Network features programming from all around the world in every genre, from Wrestling to Entertainment, to Politics. Visit the archives and hear from Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff, Lou Ferrigno, Kristy Swanson, Roberta Flack, and so many more A List entertainers.

 

[Trainwreck2100]

“I have never seen anybody defy the odds of what he’s done. It doesn’t make any sense on how he got to where he is. So many people bashed him along the way, and only one guy believed in him: Vince McMahon. He doesn’t even look like a wrestler, but he hung in there and he made it.

 

[Wheels]

Yeah, that made me laugh.

 

[bullets]

Who knew all this time Vince McMahon secretly supported CM Punk.

Bullsh**. I know you're a mark for the guy but just because you keep pushing this notion that hollywood stardom makes him the biggest WWE star...it doesn't make it true.

If Hollywood stardom translated to him being the biggest WWE star we'd be seeing FAR more of an impact thanks to his return but all those so called movie fans damn sure didn't double or triple the Survivor Series or Mania buyrates or the tv ratings. Thats why your claim does not compute. he is by far the most sucessful guy when it comes to a career OUTSIDE of wrestling but he's not the biggest WRESTLING star.

Hogan put more asses in seats, drew for longer, was a top star for TWO different companies. Who had the biggest tv ratings in WWE? Hogan. His top rating was three times larger than the biggest ratings pop Rock ever had. On sheer name recognition as many people STILL know Hogan as they do the Rock and Hogans an old man now. But his name is ingrained in pop culture.

Austin could also claim to be a bigger WWE star than Rock. Rock followed on the path Austin walked. All his success came after Austins and partly through working WITH Austin to get the rub. It was Austin that led the way in turning WWE around.

I'd say Rock is a bigger movie star than Hulk Hogan and currently more popular. Hogan is a bigger icon. Austin came close to that level but not as popular to the outside world as Hogan.

I would have never guessed that one day I'd be excited to hear Mark Henry is returning.

It's late in his career but last year he turned me into a fan. They could really use him right now.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Vince was the only one who supported CM Punk?

It's late in his career but last year he turned me into a fan. They could really use him right now.

Definitely. His role as a heel was very well done and beats out any other time they tried to push Henry as a heel. He is very much needed right now as he's been the only really strong heel we've seen in a while, including Punk when he still feels more like a tweener than anything, but maybe that's because of the crowd reaction he still receives.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'd say Rock is a bigger movie star than Hulk Hogan and currently more popular. Hogan is a bigger icon. Austin came close to that level but not as popular to the outside world as Hogan.

You also have to give Hogan props for being the industry leader at a time when there were many fewer channels to access wrestling from (meaning not just TV, but limited availability of tapes, merchandise and no such thing as online content).

 

[NDX]

Mark Henry is expect to return soon. He's lost some weight recently.

Damn! Now he looks like the World's Strongest Bobblehead.

Here's an idea: this isn't suitable for a badass like Callihan, obviously, but the next time the WWE wants a lame heel wrestler to get over (like the next Heath Slater), they should have a guy go to the ring badly singing his own theme music a capella, with very trite and self referential lyrics like the Gary Shandling show. Like the following:

I, am, singing Pink Ranger's, theme music. This, is, the music, that plays when I walk to the r-i-i-i-ng. It, also, plays, after I win a m-a-a-atch. And, sometimes, if I do a run-in, on somebody else. But, not, always, if I want it to be a surpr-i-i-i-ise ...

That is a horrible idea. I love it. Get it to the WWE right away.

- Goldust continues to ask fans for their support in getting WWE to book a Goldust vs. Cody Rhodes match at WrestleMania 29. Now he is campaigning for Dusty Rhodes to be the special referee.

Cody won't be doing anything else at WM at this rate, so what the hell. Book it.

Someone wants his job back...

 

[Dr. Evil]

Henry is in better shape....good for him.

 

[Metallo]

http://www.pwmania.com/backstage-news-cm-punk-vs-ryback-hell-cell-creative-hard-time-finish

WWE creative is having a hard time coming up with a finish for the Ryback vs. CM Punk match at Hell In a Cell.
They don’t want to have Ryback lose but also do not want to switch the WWE Title before the Royal Rumble in January. They also don’t want to end the pay-per-view with a screwjob and obviously can’t do a DQ finish inside the Cell. Officials also do not want to end the show with Big Show vs. Sheamus so it appears they are going to end up having to do something that they do not want to do.
There has been a lot of online speculation about Brock Lesnar interfering to cost Ryback the match with the idea of Ryback vs. Lesnar at WrestleMania 29. This would create a number of issues including messing up plans for Triple H’s revenge on Lesnar and the extra cost of using Lesnar on another pay-per-view above what he is contracted for.

Do they not have ANY foresight? Why make the match if they can't agree on a finish?

Caught up on Impact, I thought it was a solid show with some good in ring action, I dunno maybe it's me but TNA feels much more relaxed than last time I watched WWE, they don't shove every agenda they have down your throat.

Even though I think it blows camel sack that Hardy is champion, Aries is the ideal heel for him as he can carry the mic work and I sense them taking more of a Hardy/Punk route with the feud than the initial rip-off of the current Punk/Cena feud. Aries promo this week was gold.

Agreed. Much like Punk Aries can carry this feud on the stick. It is taking a similar turn like you said. Aries was great again tonight.

TNA need to figure out what is next for Roode, the man is all round top 3 in the business right now IMO

Ditto. I'm not sure where they can go but they need to find another main event level face for him to take on so his momentum doesn't slow. Maybe Angle? Looks like they may have written him out though. After Aries and hardy finish up I'd like to see Roode go after the title in a feud if Hardy retains or even if he doesn't.

If Rock wins the title he should be there for TV and PPV. Plain and simple.

This. It'll be disgusting if they give Rock the belt and he doesn't at least show up more than a handful of times in a two month period. He SHOULD defend at EC to make his reign matter and even though I don't think he needs to wrestle on Raw he should at least be AT more than half the Raws leading to Mania.

If he can't ACT like a champion he shouldn't be champion. Even Hogan was on Raw every week for his one month reign in 02 AND defended the belt on Raw.

We're not going to go through this all again this year. Putting the belt on any wrestler that can not fulfil the required commitment be that through injury or other projects is ****ing brain dead.

And it's even worse putting it on some jumped up ex wrestler that couldn't give a toss about the business until it suited him. As good as the rock was and as it will kill his fans to admit, even back in his prime he was second and at times third fiddle, and the buy rates last year and the year before prove he his no long the kind of draw the wwe want to claim he is

So what makes anyone think that him carrying the main focus of the story of the company but only appearing on pre-taped badly acted dick,gay and fart jokes promos will be different this time.

Amen. Putting the belt on a guy when he and Vince don't give enough of a damn to make it a legitimate reign is one reason why titles mean less. The WWE title should be treated with more respect. Enough of Vince ****ing out the WWE because he's mark for hollywood acceptance.

What the F*** good is Rock as champion when we don't even see him? May as well put the strap on Little Jimmy.

Natalya is dressed appropriately.

If they are trying to un sexy her...it aint workin. She's still filling out that outfit nicely.

I don't mind the design because it's only meant be worn by Hardy.

Yeah Thats the way custom belts should be. Unlike the awful Spinner belt. Even the Immortal belt made sense because Hardy was a heel trying to draw heat.

Miz in the title picture over Ziggler? I don't see how he's not doing the best with what he has, he's been asked to go out there and constantly make Sheamus and Orton look a million bucks while also having to job to people like Brodus and carry him, he's done those things very well.

Cody has fallen off I'd agree, he has never really recovered from losing his Dr Doom gimmick and looks to be behind Cesaro and Sandow in the heel prospects line, not to mention Barrett who will be pushed endlessly because he's big.

Rock will drop the belt to Cena not Punk at Mania so that three months will consist of servicing nostalgia marks and then pleasing the 12 year olds at Mania, when in truth it should have all ended with a Cena win last year, Rock doesn't need the belt, his match is a main event regardless.

This. Cena shouldn't HAVE to get his win back. Rock doesn't need the belt. Its past time to be using old names to build new stars. way past time.

This crap with Ryback only proves how stuck in his ways Vince is and how out of touch and out of date he is. Even Luger had a f***n personality when Vince went gaga over his abs and pecs.

I remember comparing Miz to a 10 year old boy trying to get his older brother's attention while he was hanging out with one of his friends from high school. He was just out of place begging for attention when the real feud was Rock/Cena. The Miz was just there trying to get attention any way he could and felt like a third stringer. That, in my opinion, took a lot of steam out of Miz as a main eventer, and then following it up with a string of lackluster feuds and stories, where the only highlight was the Awesome Truth, Miz has a long way to build himself back up to main event status.

Right now, having the week he had, doesn't help that. They should have kept the IC title on him, because I don't ever see Kofi getting elevated higher than he is, and Miz sure as hell ain't ready to be in that position again.

Agreed...except Miz wasn't doing sh** to elevate the IC title. Kofi won't either but that belt should be on someone like Rhodes, Ziggler, or Bryan. Those guys will make that belt look better despite crap booking.

One question, I just thought of this...is Chris Jericho a nostalgia act?

Yes and no. He is in the sense that he's a part timer that reminds people of another era and they remember his past work fondly but Jericho can also still contribute at a very high level. He doesn't get by primarily on nostalgia the way others do.

It's like Deja Vu in here, I believe this will be the 3rd year running this argument has been had. I mean Nell has barely been posting but as soon as Rock is dissed he's back swinging.

Hulk Hogan is the biggest star in the history of wrestling

Shawn Michaels is the greatest in-ring performer

The Undertaker is the greatest legend

Ric Flair is the greatest world champion

Roddy Piper is the greatest mic worker

Andre the giant is the greatest special attraction

The Road Warriors are the most famous tag team ever

Gospel right here, people.

Do people really think Shawn Michaels is the best in-ring performer ever? The rest I can understand, but as much as I like HBK (he was what really got me into wrestling hardcore), he probably isn't a top 10 in-ring guy.

The thing is of all the years I watched him I never EVER saw Michaels choke in the ring and deliver a poor match. Some were better than others but they were all good. Didn't matter who he was working with. Even some of the other great ones have delivered stinkers or dissapointments. Even Bret hart did.

Michaels was always consistant when it came to quality. Even with a past his prime Vader or lumbering oafs like Sid or Nash. Few others could have done that. If he isn't number one the argument can at least be mounted that he is. He's one of those guys everyone wanted to get in the ring with and test their mettle against. Just about everyone has swallowed their ego and said so. Even people like bret and Billy Gunn who thought he was an a$$hole have admitted how good he was. Even when Bret despised him he praised his talent. Thats something he could never even quite do with Ric Flair.

All good points Hunter made, but I think it's more accurate to call Hogan the biggest North American draw than "biggest star". El Santo's a bigger icon; Rock has more mainstream name-recognition and acceptance. But did anyone make more money at wrestling than Hogan? I seriously doubt it.

Nope. You say the Rock and some peple will think you are talking about the prison or the movie set at the prison.

You say Hulk Hogan almost everyone will know who you are talking about. I've never met anyone who didn't at least vaguely know who he is. Even when they didn't even know who Austin was.

I don't know if I would have him #1 but Arn Anderson would be VERY high on my list of all time talkers. Honestly I think I might put Foley at #1.

Also for underrated wrestlers since I never put my list

1. Raven
2. Val Venis
3. Arn Anderson
4. Christian
5. Rick Martel
6. Yoshiro Tajiri

I was thinking about Raven yesterday and how WWF and WCW never REALLY tapped his potential. The dude had this Manson/Jim Jones-ish cult leader/svengali think going on with his promos where he could entrance you. Only Roberts did that better.

What's the worst Ed Leslie gimmick? My pick is The Zodiac.

The Booty Man was pretty bad but at least i got to look at Kimberly. I'm going with that One Warrior Nation bullsh** when Warrior kidnapped and brainwashed him. That whooooooooooole thing was WTF painful.

 

[vantheman77]

This was a much better edition of Impact than last week in terms of ending the BFG storylines and starting new ones. With no title change, this makes Championship Thursday to be pointless. RVD will feud with Joey Ryan and Matt Morgan while Tara and Jesse Godderz will feud with ODB and Eric Young.

They were also experimenting with storyline approaches such as Jeff Hardy's voiceover on what he thought of the other four contenders.

I like how one storyline flows into another with an example of Hulk Hogan eliminating Ken Anderson that lead to Anderson's fight with Austin Aries. That resulted in their match with an interesting finish.

The segment between Bully Ray and D-Von was something that should've happened last week and it seems like TNA admitted D-Von's explanations from last week weren't that great. Bully Ray is preoccupied with D-Von and the Aces and Eights as this is what should be instead of being about Hulk Hogan.

TNA was smart to go with Kurt Angle to challenge Jeff Hardy for the World title instead of James Storm as I think they'll save Hardy and Storm down the line, perhaps for Final Resolution if Hardy retains at Turning Point.

We have new announcers in Jeremy Borash and Todd Kennely for first hour with Mike Tenay and Taz for the second hour. This is a smart move as we need fresh perspectives. Tenay was overexposed for the last 10 years. This has to be Eric Bischoff's idea as WCW Monday Nitro did the same thing in the 90's.

With access to TNA, Aces and Eights now have a new office as opposed to the garage set. Kurt Angle gets attacked by them and they were saved by Wes Briscoe and Garret Bischoff as they're rumored to be part of the group.

Much, much better Impact than last week's farce.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Speaking of TNA, if they had the money, they would probably take advantage of all of the countries to where the WWE has yet to make any significant impact (no pun intended) like Brazil.

 

[TheFuture]

Do they not have ANY foresight? Why make the match if they can't agree on a finish?

This.

I have a horrible feeling that this will be a squash as I can't see the match going longer than 15 minutes. Ryback has dominated Punk two weeks in a row so I'm questioning how much offense they're going to allow Punk to get in.

I'm dreading it but I'm expecting a comprehensive Ryback win, then loses back to Punk without being pinned before RR in a triple threat or fatal 4 way.

I'm still hoping for a Lesnar appearance but are they really going to let Ryback be F5'ed and then pinned?

 

[Metallo]

Ryback vs CM Punk Thoughts

by Kevin Kelly

October 25, 2012

With so much speculation on the upcoming “Hell in a Cell” match between Ryback and CM Punk, I wanted to share my thoughts, based upon my time in the WWE and what I think might happen.

I am not one who thinks that Ryback has to win and cannot lose.
Because Ryback is not the answer in 2013…

He’s not Goldberg, he’s not Brock Lesnar. He’s not Hulk Hogan. He’s Mick Foley.

Ryback is over right now and red-hot. Now’s the best time to knock off the big man because his ceiling is not much higher than it is right now. The WWE has spent very little capital on the push of Ryback. Vince McMahon took bumps for Punk. They’ve brought in Paul Heyman to work with Punk. Stone Cold makes YouTube videos on CM Punk.
But the biggest investment was one clothesline from Punk on The Rock earlier this year.

Remember how Punk turned heel? Title defense vs Cena, Big Show interferes, here comes the Rock, “Rock Bottom”, People’s Elbow… derailed by CM Punk’s clothesline. Rock sold it like he was shot. This is to build the Royal Rumble and in turn, WrestleMania. If you think Ryback fits into the equation with The Rock and WrestleMania, you would be wrong.

The push of Ryback reminds me of the build for Mankind in 1998 and 1999. The wars between Mick Foley and Rock were legendary but when Stone Cold Steve Austin came back from injury and wanted to only work with The Rock at WrestleMania and not do a 3-Way, Mick was out. Austin used Shawn Michaels to help persuade Vince McMahon that Rock vs Austin was the best for business. Mick was out of the main event in WrestleMania and was reduced to being chokeslammed by the Big Show on top of chairs.

Now, I am not saying that The Rock has called Vince and said, “here’s what you’re going to do with Ryback” but Rock is not going to let his investment he made in CM Punk be wasted by Ryback. In 1999, Stone Cold was very smart. He talked Shawn Michaels into speaking to Vince because HBK always had a magical ability to persuade McMahon. Mick Foley got screwed and all that work he put in was undone rather quickly with one stroke of the booker’s pencil.

Did Mick Foley wind up ok? Of course he did but going into 1998, Mick was never the long-term answer for the WWE and Vince McMahon. Did Mick make lots of money? Yes but he needed to reinvent himself and history will say he did better than he was expected to. Mick’s ceiling was low but he went far beyond his perceived capacity.

The WWE stumbled on Ryback, who’s a 31-year old journeyman. Up and down in Developmental since 2004, he’s been pushed properly to this point but he wouldn’t even be in this match, were it not for the injury to John Cena. Ryback’s a bit player, not a top guy. Ryback is at max capacity right now. He doesn’t have the skill set to grow beyond this and is simply doing what he’s told to do.

Ironic to me that Ryback first got on the radar with CM Punk after Punk attacked Mick Foley on Raw.

Can Ryback be saved after he loses (and I predict he will) this Sunday? Of course but is he anywhere near as smart and talented as Mick Foley, who had to reinvent himself to solidify his own place in the WWE? Unfortunately, Ryback will have to rely on the Creative team to give him that opportunity. That’s where the similarities between Ryback and Mick Foley end.

Fans will moan and groan about how the WWE has wasted another potential monster. I did the same thing in 2000 when I worked there and Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit all lost on the same Fully Loaded PPV to the Undertaker, Triple H and The Rock. All three recovered from those losses and the sky did not fall after that night, as I worried. But each was able to transform themselves to get back what they gave in July, 2000.

The fact is CM Punk is “the man” and Ryback is there to help get him over.

Because it’s all about WrestleMania, even in October.
What do you think? Share your thoughts with me on Twitter @RealKevinKelly

http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/263079-ryback-vs-cm-punk-thoughts

 

[Slushy]

Bullsh**. I know you're a mark for the guy but just because you keep pushing this notion that hollywood stardom makes him the biggest WWE star...it doesn't make it true.

If Hollywood stardom translated to him being the biggest WWE star we'd be seeing FAR more of an impact thanks to his return but all those so called movie fans damn sure didn't double or triple the Survivor Series or Mania buyrates or the tv ratings. Thats why your claim does not compute. he is by far the most sucessful guy when it comes to a career OUTSIDE of wrestling but he's not the biggest WRESTLING star.

Hogan put more asses in seats, drew for longer, was a top star for TWO different companies. Who had the biggest tv ratings in WWE? Hogan. His top rating was three times larger than the biggest ratings pop Rock ever had. On sheer name recognition as many people STILL know Hogan as they do the Rock and Hogans an old man now. But his name is ingrained in pop culture.

Austin could also claim to be a bigger WWE star than Rock. Rock followed on the path Austin walked. All his success came after Austins and partly through working WITH Austin to get the rub. It was Austin that led the way in turning WWE around.

The Hulk Hogan character was created & perfected in the AWA. Steve Austin was a WCW guy & the "Stone Cold" persona was developed during his time in ECW. However, while reminiscing on WWE's past, my boys and I realized that Rock is WWE's biggest born & bred star. I don't even have to go into his background or his heritage, as he was born, raised & trained in the WWE. He never had an opportunity to work the territories & never competed for the competition, but he still managed to outshine many veterans on the roster. He experienced milestones such as becoming the WWE Champion two years into his career. He was the youngest WWE Champion at that time, but unlike Brock & Orton, he actually earned it. He was also the first Black WWE champion, as well as being WWE's first 3rd-Generation star.

Some people forget how much of a prodigy he was, especially when he was billed over older veterans like Foley, Taker, Jericho & HHH. After a mere 2 years in the business, he rivaled Austin in popularity, when Austin was the champion & a 10 year vet at that point. So that alone, is a huge feat in itself, considering how popular Austin was at his peak. Rock also gets a lot of unfair criticism for his ring work, as he came in during a time where brawling was the standard. However, if you take a look at some of his work from 2000-2002, you can see that he was improving & adding to his arsenal. Another thing to consider is that he retired from full-time action at the ripe age of 30, that's way before a lot of wrestlers start hitting their stride. At age 30, Austin was jobbing to Jim Duggan, Foley was debuting in ECW & Triple H was still looking to capture his first world title. All of their greatness came after that age, so just imagine how great The Rock would've been if he'd stuck around.

While some ******** Cena fans will always b*tch about Wrestlemania 28, I will continue to respect The Rock, the biggest Superstar the WWF made. The one difference: He was HOME GROWN!

*awaits more of Metallo's Rock sh** talking

 

[JabarR]

Here's a sneak peek of tonight

[YT]8lcXkxUOMB4[/YT]

 

[Hunter Rider]

It doesn't matter who did what at what age as you have to factor in how stars were built then vs The Rock's era when he was on TV twice a week and PPV once a month. There was no development system back then either so "home grown" is a moot point.

The bottom line really is that Hogan is the biggest star ever in wrestling no matter which organizations letters you stick in the sentence.

Kevin Kelly's article is interesting but he seems to have different facts than Foley and Rock concerning Mania 15.

Simon Diamond needs to come up for air, Vince probably can't remember who he was. He is correct about Dolph being dangerously close to the 'never man' territory and the fact Vince wants WWE the brand to be the draw not the actual wrestlers (big mistake and the reason things are in the mess they are in) but his comments about Vince believing in Punk are hilarious.

Dustin Rhodes is starting to sound desperate.

Mark Henry is expect to return soon. He's lost some weight recently.

Well done Mizark, he looks is good shape.

Agreed. Much like Punk Aries can carry this feud on the stick. It is taking a similar turn like you said. Aries was great again tonight.

Aries is pure gold and him and Jeff also have great in-ring chemistry as well, I think a Full metal mayhem match might be a good way to close the feud out in December with Aries winning.

Ditto. I'm not sure where they can go but they need to find another main event level face for him to take on so his momentum doesn't slow. Maybe Angle? Looks like they may have written him out though. After Aries and hardy finish up I'd like to see Roode go after the title in a feud if Hardy retains or even if he doesn't.

I just hope the plan is not to book Roode with the MMA guy they brought in, Roode really needs to get that second reign under way IMO but it's tricky when him and Aries are both so good at the same time and both really need the belt but are both heels.

This. Cena shouldn't HAVE to get his win back. Rock doesn't need the belt. Its past time to be using old names to build new stars. way past time.

This crap with Ryback only proves how stuck in his ways Vince is and how out of touch and out of date he is. Even Luger had a f***n personality when Vince went gaga over his abs and pecs.

Ryback is the virulent disease end of the symptoms that began with the dumbass booking of the WrestleMania 28 Main event, it was the beginning of a pattern of stupidity that included Brock losing his first match back and Punk going heel.

 

[Metallo]

The Hulk Hogan character was created & perfected in the AWA. Steve Austin was a WCW guy & the "Stone Cold" persona was developed during his time in ECW.

Exactly part of the point. Those guys worked hard WITHOUT the same opportunities the Rock had and they STILL made it. Thats greatness that cannot be denied. Hogan honed his skill somewhere else but he became a big STAR in WWF. Same with Austin. They spent more time in WWE than anywhere else. Just because the got their start elsewhere how does that mean they weren't the biggest stars in WWE? Your logic is flawed. They also never got handed the chances Rock did. They didn't have a "family in." Austin and Hogans dads weren't anywhere in the business. Neither were their extended families.

If Rock is so great why couldn't he do with Cena this year what Hogan did TWICE with Warrior and Rock himself? Who did Skydome cheer for when they turned on Rock? Hogan. He's a scumbag but in the business, at his peak, he is the man for all times.

Hogans all time greatness is indesputable You don't create generational moments like that in two different eras and not have something special. Rock couldn't do it and didn't do it.

Warrior wasn't even as talented as John Cena and Hogan STILL did his part to make the magic happen at WM6. And as a middle aged man he got those attitude era faithful to TURN on the "great one." Thats because they knew what Hogan meant to the WWF and Wrestlemania. It was the house Hogan (and Vince) built.

Rock turned in a lackluster performance with Cena but the marks still ate up his act because they couldn't put that bias aside.

However, while reminiscing on WWE's past, my boys and I realized that Rock is WWE's biggest born & bred star. I don't even have to go into his background or his heritage, as he was born, raised & trained in the WWE. He never had an opportunity to work the territories & never competed for the competition, but he still managed to outshine many veterans on the roster. He experienced milestones such as becoming the WWE Champion two years into his career. He was the youngest WWE Champion at that time, but unlike Brock & Orton, he actually earned it. He was also the first Black WWE champion, as well as being WWE's first 3rd-Generation star.

Thats cause he never had to toil away with his prime physical years being used up some where else. biggest homegrown star doesn't mean biggest star. Figure it out. Not working the territories also meant he never got the polish or variety of talents those other guys did. When the curtain is pulled back on him it shows. Thats why he repeats the same old sh** from ten years ago. If I want a rerun I'll watch TV Land.

Rock "earned" the title? In a worked sport? He got it in around the same time in the business as Orton did. Austin is a guy who EARNED IT. Rock never paid the dues Austin did. Pretty pathetic how far the bar has dropped for earning it. Rock got the belt because he was over an theres nothing wrong with that. If thats the case Warrior "earned it" more than the Rock did. he at least paid his dues for far longer.

And Rocks half black. Didn't reaslize you were a believer in the ol one drop rule. Ron Simmons was a black wrestling champion years before Dwayne so he broke the bigger barrier.

Some people forget how much of a prodigy he was, especially when he was billed over older veterans like Foley, Taker, Jericho & HHH. After a mere 2 years in the business, he rivaled Austin in popularity, when Austin was the champion & a 10 year vet at that point. So that alone, is a huge feat in itself, considering how popular Austin was at his peak.

Those guys never had his leading man look. Looks and charisma were things he had that those other guys never lucked into have as much of even though some of them were far more talented. He didn't really rival Austin until 1999. More than two years in the business.

Rock also gets a lot of unfair criticism for his ring work, as he came in during a time where brawling was the standard. However, if you take a look at some of his work from 2000-2002, you can see that he was improving & adding to his arsenal. Another thing to consider is that he retired from full-time action at the ripe age of 30, that's way before a lot of wrestlers start hitting their stride.

And all that means what exactly? That lame ass Sharpshooter he always used wasn't exactly improvement.

At age 30, Austin was jobbing to Jim Duggan, Foley was debuting in ECW & Triple H was still looking to capture his first world title. All of their greatness came after that age, so just imagine how great The Rock would've been if he'd stuck around.

Thats because Austin broke in the hard way and didn't have opportunities HANDED to him. Thats more impressive than getting your dad to give Pat patterson a call...who probably ****ed his pants as soon as he saw young Dwayne.

Austins career defied the odds. Rocks rise was far easier in retrospect. being so talented that you defy the odds is far more impressive than being cast from the mold Vince has always loved.

Rock had already done just about everything there was to do. I doubt he would have gotten much "greater" especially since the business was on a downturn once he left.

While some ******** Cena fans will always b*tch about Wrestlemania 28, I will continue to respect The Rock, the biggest Superstar the WWF made. The one difference: He was HOME GROWN!

And some d*ck riding Rock marks continue to live this delusion that he's the greatest ever even while ignoring the facts. They give a bunch of ass kissing observations that are subjective instead of hard numbers and facts. Who gives a sh** if he was homegrown. That just means he was their first corporate creation waaaaay before Cena. that has no bearing on wether or not he is the WWE's biggest or greatest star

Hogan and Austin were the biggest WWF stars ever. HOGAN led the way as the face that built the WWF. If there was no Hogan Rock may not have had a national level WWF to walk into and get freakin a job. HOGAN was the face that built Wrestlemania. Rock headlined it a few times. Hogan was a big part of STARTING it all as a national company. Rock didn't MAKE sh**. Vince Jrs WWF was already there.

AUSTIN was the guy who led the way to save it. When HOGAN was a part of the NWO and put WWF on its knees business wise Austin was the guy who led the way in turning it around and giving the WWF the Attitude it needed. Nobody exemplified the Attitude Era the way Steve Austin did.

Austin got as popular as he did WITHOUT the rub of a megestar the way the Rock did. So did Hogan. They got over purely on their characters and their own talents. They beat guys who never achieved that level of stardom on the business. Rock meanwhile got the rub from following Austin. Rock didn't get his shot to fill the top spot full time until Austin was hurt and left a void. Austin was GONE for a whole damn year. Its not like Rock knocked him off the perch while he was there. If Steve Austin had never been so badly injured who knows how things would have gone.

You can go on and on in some bullcrap about the Rocks gleaming white smile and how you giggle every time he says rooty poo and how that makes him the GOAT but where's the REAL facts to back up what you say besides your wrestling fanboy lovefest about how dreamy Dwayne is?

Was WWF and Wrestlemania built on Rocks back the way it was with Hogan? No. Was he the face that kickstarted another boom period for WWF against monumental competition? No. Austin TOOK the ball despite not being what Vince wanted. He didn't get it when someone was laid up on the shelf hurt. The people followed his lead. Even Vince McMahon himself said Austin was the greatest star WWE's ever seen and its his company.

Hogan is synonymous with the WWF/E and wrestling for a lot of people. it doesn't get any bigger than that. His prime was TWENTY years ago and people still remember what his heyday was like.

Hogan and Andre had the biggest most anticipated match in US wrestling history. Don't feed me some bullsh** about how Rock had a bigger one. he didn't. Hogan/Andre was an event the likes of which this business has never seen since. It wasn't the best match but it was the biggest.

awaits more of Metallo's Rock sh** talking

Thats why none of what you say holds water. You can't put your bias aside when examining the Rocks career. Anytime someone criticizes your golden boy you obviously take it personally. Unlike you I CAN see the flaws in the guys I'm talking about. I'm not a personal mark for any of them and I can look at all three men and their history objectively. I'm not talking sh** because I'd laid out actual things that happened to back up what I said.

Hogan drew big money on top for the better part of a decade. None of your coulda woulda bullsh**. The FACT is Rock never drew for the WWF that long. And no one can say if he could have staved off WWE's decline or not in the early 2000's.

 

[Metallo]

It doesn't matter who did what at what age as you have to factor in how stars were built then vs The Rock's era when he was on TV twice a week and PPV once a month. There was no development system back then either so "home grown" is a moot point.

Yes. And in a worked sport in different eras age doesn't mean nearly as much. If anything it just means in the old days guys had to be MORE talented and MORE popular to get the belt at a younger age. youngest champion is more of a kayfabe accomplishment.

Kevin Kelly's article is interesting but he seems to have different facts than Foley and Rock concerning Mania 15.

That caught my attention too.

Simon Diamond needs to come up for air, Vince probably can't remember who he was. He is correct about Dolph being dangerously close to the 'never man' territory and the fact Vince wants WWE the brand to be the draw not the actual wrestlers (big mistake and the reason things are in the mess they are in) but his comments about Vince believing in Punk are hilarious.

Sounds like he was singing WWE's praises and putting the company over more than anything since like you said a lot of what HE said sounds suspect. But he is right about Ziggler. We've seen it too many times before not to notice whats happening now. The same thing happened with Joe with TNA pulled the trigger on a title run too late.

Dustin Rhodes is starting to sound desperate.

I respect that he wants to put his brother over (and make some coin for himself) but the time may have passed on it. Codys not as hot as he once was and now that Dust is fired he'd need to work harder to build momentum for his own character if he was brought back.

Aries is pure gold and him and Jeff also have great in-ring chemistry as well, I think a Full metal mayhem match might be a good way to close the feud out in December with Aries winning.

As much as I hated seeign Roode lose the belt TNA actually made the right call by using it as a chance to elevate Roode. Something WWE has failed to do recently with their own midcarders. They used Roodes great reign to put over another guy in a credible way. Thats how you make stars.

I just hope the plan is not to book Roode with the MMA guy they brought in, Roode really needs to get that second reign under way IMO but it's tricky when him and Aries are both so good at the same time and both really need the belt but are both heels.

Yeah I hate to see either one drop out of the spotlight. I don't think either one should turn face right now either. They are both too good at what they are doing. If Hardy keeps the belt for a while Roode needs to go after him.

Only Aries could make a platter of cookies into an awesome promo.

Ryback is the virulent disease end of the symptoms that began with the dumbass booking of the WrestleMania 28 Main event, it was the beginning of a pattern of stupidity that included Brock losing his first match back and Punk going heel.

All three show signs no long term thinking and quick fix on the fly solutions.

They wasted the mega over Brock as a heel and Punk as a face. So many things could have been done. WWE doesn't really have a dominant heel right now the way Brock could have been. Punk vs Brock could have been built into a huge main event that would have elevated Punk. Lesnar could have been a dominant heel and beaten Cena and HHH and we could have been looking at a end point at Wrestlemania with a showdown between Brock and Punk.

Now Brocks not as hot and WWE missed a chance on some potential matches looking stronger. Punk/Lesnar/ Taker/Lesnar Punk/HHH.

By going after a weakened Cena Brock looked like a scavenger who was there to pick the bones instead of an alpha predator going after another dominant male to become the top dog.

Ryback has no depth as a charcter. He's beaten a bunch of jobbers and midcarders who mean absolutely nothing. Even Goldberg beat some guys with credibility. Thats why if Ryback wins the belt it won't be a meaningful reign. We've seen it before in WWE.

Ryback doesn't need a one year build but they haven't even been smart enough to book him like Lesnar who did win matches that mattered and had Heyman to give him some interest. Ryback looks like he's ready to ride the shortbus.

 

[Kaleb]

 

[Dr. Evil]

Also, the Rock looks more Samoan than Black. In fact, if you showed some random people a photo of him and then asked what race he was, everyone would answer "Pacific Islander."

As for his Hollywood career, he's going to need a sustained career of success before he's a household name. He also does not have an iconic character that most movie fans know him from. Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzengger and Bruce Willis all have iconic characters. Stallone's had both Rocky Balboa and Rambo. Arnold was the Terminator and Bruce Willis will return as John McClain in early 2013. What iconic film character does The Rock have?

Plus, none of the Rock's movies have such an iconic theme as this:

[YT]DhlPAj38rHc[/YT]

 

[Wheels]

Nice article on the Ryback vs CM Punk match at Hell in a Cell.

http://www.pwinsider.com/article/72...lbecause-no-one-will-be-expecting-it.html?p=1

 

[kit1982]

Good article and a nice idea..... if Punks opponent wasn't Ryback, I can't help but think the blokes going to struggle in a 15 minute match nevermind 60!

 

[Van Petrol]

Lol, my thoughts exactly. The guy obviously hasn't heard of Daniel Bryan or Stone Cold Steve Austin either, as they are another too who had it all against them, but made it.

 

[Wheels]

Good article and a nice idea..... if Punks opponent wasn't Ryback, I can't help but think the blokes going to struggle in a 15 minute match nevermind 60!

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Man, WWE really screwed the pooch with this situation.

 

[kit1982]

The only way I could see it ending with the way the WWE is if Rybacks shoulders are literally pinned to the ground by heavy machinery or something, sort of like the ending of Jericho vs Kane back at Armageddon in 2000. But even then no idea how they'd work it into a HIAC match.

I mean there's no way they'd have Punks 300+ day reign ending in him being completely decimated by a guy who just a few weeks ago was fighting Jinder Mahal...... would they?