BvS The Zack Snyder Validation Thread (big rant)

[craigdbfan]

He was completely on the nose in terms of his villainy and Adrien Veidt was supposed to be the living representation of the Nazi ideal. On a superficial level he looked like the perfect man/superhero. One wouldn't ever think he could be the "villain" of the story.

As much as I enjoyed Goode's performance he was awfully apparent of his villain status the second he pops up.

Tom Cruise who was initially being considered would have been amazing I think.

 

[The Endless]

Matthew Goode has been dismissed as bad casting for Watchmen, I don't remember what the reasoning was.

He was well cast and gave a good performance. But he wasn't well portrayed. Ozzy should basically be the very definition of golden boy. Like Captain America or Superman.

Then the revelation is more powerful.

You could see he was the villain of the piece a mile off.

 

[Glassjaw]

Having read the GN first, it's hard to know how obvious Ozy being the big bad was. To me it seemed pretty spelt out, but I already knew and saw all the signs. In the GN itself it took me by complete surprise. Silk Spectres casting was really off, with everyone else being such a perfect fit (Jackie Early, Billy Crudup,Patrick Wilson all being spot on) I can only guess they went with Ackerman because she was someone willing to go topless in a super hero movie.

 

[Jason Kane]

Snyder is from the same generation as Michael Bay, heck they were classmate at a design college in California and they started out as a commercial director and their early directing efforts were much more intriguing (Snyder - Dawn of the Dead & Bay - The Island). Bay however stagnated with his pursuit of easy money in robot porns and Snyder is still undeveloped as a storyteller.

The best current director that I like is Matt Reeves - he made major script change to the Dawn of the Planet of the Apes script (made Cesear and his apes group the focus of the story, more sign language usage instead of apes speaking the full gamut of English, etc.,) only a few weeks before shooting began. I enjoyed his Cloverfield but DOTPOTA is a major step up and to think that he was once considered to helm MOS before Nolan recommended Snyder who incidentally didn't believe in his own ability to make MOS before he read Goyer's script.

Ah, Matt Reeves. Now that's a director the WB needs in their stable

 

[slumcat]

Goode was an awful awful caste. He is supposed to be a 45 year old first of all, a perfect physical specimen, Cap level, and an ingratiating persona, warn and selling a "nice guy" image to the public.

Instead we got a pencil thin 25 year old with a scrawny body, with sinister mannerisms to convey he is a villain within the first few scenes.

Snyder however has had some good casting decisions also.

Gerard Butler in 300 - absolutely inspired. I and frankly the entire world had no idea who Butler was before his superstar-making role. A alphamale warrior-king of antiquity in a brutal war epic, Brad Pitt or Russell Crowe might have been the go to Hollywood guys. Snyder himself said that the first name that came up from the suits was Brad Pitt. But he went left wing and cast this unknown Scottish actor, who gave the performance of a lifetime and achieved instead global fame for this role.

Jackie Earle Haley as Rorschach - Again an epic modern role, arguably the lead role in a 150 million dollar epic and Snyder did not go with a star, he went with a very small character actor who nevertheless fir the character just right.

 

[sf2]

I understand. But still, i find a few members of this forum to be really weird, like jmc, the endless, joker, etc. And i say this because they have spent hours and hours and hours and hours of their lives trying to discredit movies they don´t like. And i´m not talking about giving an opinion here and there, but being really repetitive, hateful and dismissive. It´s almost like they patrol these boards in order to make sure nobody validates the stuff they don´t like. You can tell they have a hard time accepting that someone might like something they don´t. And that´s a serious problem.

it is because they love the character (of superman). this character has 76 years old history. he isn't created by Zack Synder and they opined that Zack has abused the character.
so what u gonna do when somebody abusing the thing that you love/ believe in?

the same of most of us here have done to Singer... there was severe; had hate blogs, forums, websites... daily curse... lol

 

[DA_Champion]

He was well cast and gave a good performance. But he wasn't well portrayed. Ozzy should basically be the very definition of golden boy. Like Captain America or Superman.

Then the revelation is more powerful.

You could see he was the villain of the piece a mile off.

Having read the GN first, it's hard to know how obvious Ozy being the big bad was. To me it seemed pretty spelt out, but I already knew and saw all the signs. In the GN itself it took me by complete surprise. Silk Spectres casting was really off, with everyone else being such a perfect fit (Jackie Early, Billy Crudup,Patrick Wilson all being spot on) I can only guess they went with Ackerman because she was someone willing to go topless in a super hero movie.

Goode was an awful awful caste. He is supposed to be a 45 year old first of all, a perfect physical specimen, Cap level, and an ingratiating persona, warn and selling a "nice guy" image to the public.

Instead we got a pencil thin 25 year old with a scrawny body, with sinister mannerisms to convey he is a villain within the first few scenes.

Snyder however has had some good casting decisions also.

Gerard Butler in 300 - absolutely inspired. I and frankly the entire world had no idea who Butler was before his superstar-making role. A alphamale warrior-king of antiquity in a brutal war epic, Brad Pitt or Russell Crowe might have been the go to Hollywood guys. Snyder himself said that the first name that came up from the suits was Brad Pitt. But he went left wing and cast this unknown Scottish actor, who gave the performance of a lifetime and achieved instead global fame for this role.

Jackie Earle Haley as Rorschach - Again an epic modern role, arguably the lead role in a 150 million dollar epic and Snyder did not go with a star, he went with a very small character actor who nevertheless fir the character just right.

I watched Watchmen without first having read the Graphic novel, and what I got was an inverted character arc for Ozymandias.

He started off as the stereotypical bad guy, as if he were trying to kill all the other super folks to consolidate power for himself, but he actually turned out to be the good guy in the end trying to make the world more safe.

I might well be misunderstanding as I have not watched it in a long time.

 

[The Batman]

it is because they love the character (of superman). this character has 76 years old history. he isn't created by Zack Synder and they opined that Zack has abused the character.
so what u gonna do when somebody abusing the thing that you love/ believe in?

the same of most of us here have done to Singer... there was severe; had hate blogs, forums, websites... daily curse... lol

That's why I find it hilarious. With Snyder, its suddenly a problem to overcriticize directors, when people were trashing Singer for SR constantly.

 

[D.P.]

it is because they love the character (of superman). this character has 76 years old history. he isn't created by Zack Synder and they opined that Zack has abused the character.
so what u gonna do when somebody abusing the thing that you love/ believe in?

Might be the most egregious use of hyperbole I've ever read on these forums. By far.

Only way you could have made it any worse was to throw the word "rape" around instead.

 

[zryson]

That's why I find it hilarious. With Snyder, its suddenly a problem to overcriticize directors, when people were trashing Singer for SR constantly.

I do agree with you in what you said and I think definitely, there is a double standard occurring at times.

 

[DA_Champion]

That's why I find it hilarious. With Snyder, its suddenly a problem to overcriticize directors, when people were trashing Singer for SR constantly.

Just speaking for myself, I wasn't on these boards when people were ****ting on Singer.

Regardless of that, I consider Snyder a better filmmaker than Singer.

 

[The Endless]

I have to say though, the entire Dr M origin sequence was fantastic and beautiful.

And i really like how the funeral scene was structured, with a segment focusing on each characters experiences with the Comedian.

 

[Micromind]

Snyder is from the same generation as Michael Bay, heck they were classmate at a design college in California and they started out as a commercial director and their early directing efforts were much more intriguing (Snyder - Dawn of the Dead & Bay - The Island). Bay however stagnated with his pursuit of easy money in robot porns and Snyder is still undeveloped as a storyteller.

The best current director that I like is Matt Reeves - he made major script change to the Dawn of the Planet of the Apes script (made Cesear and his apes group the focus of the story, more sign language usage instead of apes speaking the full gamut of English, etc.,) only a few weeks before shooting began. I enjoyed his Cloverfield but DOTPOTA is a major step up and to think that he was once considered to helm MOS before Nolan recommended Snyder who incidentally didn't believe in his own ability to make MOS before he read Goyer's script.

Matt Reeves declined WB's offer to direct MOS, it was after that Nolan selected Snyder. (search the net for sources.)

Graduating from same college "Art Center College of Design" is not any indication that directors have same calibre.

 

[DA_Champion]

Any idea why Matt Reeves declined the offer?

I thought Nolan's preference was Aronofsky then Affleck then Snyder.

ETA: Michael Bay was an undergraduate classmate of Joss Whedon and a graduate school classmate of Zack Snyder.

 

[D.P.]

I still want to see Aronofsky tackle a CBM. It would have to be the right property though.

 

[DA_Champion]

I still want to see Aronofsky tackle a CBM. It would have to be the right property though.

I don't think CBM fans could handle Aronofsky. He make high-quality depressing movies, they would assassinate him if he ever made a CBM.

 

[D.P.]

I don't think CBM fans could handle Aronofsky. He make shish-quality depressing movies, they would assassinate him if he ever made a CBM.

Wolverine was more in his wheelhouse than anything. Too bad that fell through. Wasn't a fan of what he had planned for Batman though.

 

[DOBSON10]

It's always interesting to see how different people's opinions on movies are. It's weird that I can watch something and see it completely differently. Watchmen's cast for example. The only actors in that movie I liked were Jackie Earle Haley, Jeffery Dean Morgan and Malin Ackerman. Everyone seems to hate on Ackerman but I thought she was pretty good and one of the only characters I found interesting. Everyone says she was the weakest link but I thought Carla Gugino was by far the worst of the bunch, I thought she was god awful (and hasn't been much better in anything else I've seen her in either). Goode and Wilson were incredibly boring and Billy Crudup was just there, nothing special to me. Obviously most people agree with me that Haley stole the show, honestly he saved an otherwise uninteresting movie for me.

But I never read the Graphic Novel and had no interest or knowledge of the characters going in, so my impressions are probably different from most. Because I knew nothing about the characters going in that may have made me miss how well Wilson, Crudup and Goode adapted their roles but to me I found all 3 characters flat and boring. The only interesting characters for me ended up being Rorschach, Spectre and The Comedian. I thought it was a visually impressive movie but the story didn't really interest me and most of the characters didn't interest me either.

But obviously to each their own.

 

[Jekecy]

Any idea why Matt Reeves declined the offer?

He played coy, it was never expounded upon. I do remember Duncan Jones commenting on it though:

"I was thrilled to be on that short list. For me, that was enough. I don't know if I would be ready for that leap yet. I did have a meeting with Chris and he's a fantastic guy and seemed to have really enjoyed 'Moon,' so there was some legitimate interest in me. I think, maybe, I'm not quite ready for that scale of project and that scale of expectation from an audience that is already existing and is waiting to see the next generation of 'Superman' film. I don't know. It's a hard one. I'm a huge Superman fan and Bizarro Superman fan. And also a big 'Judge Dredd' fan, which was another one that came my way. Those are two very different scales of projects. Superman was so big that I think I was a little intimidated by it and sort of backed out. 'Judge Dredd' I really thought about and it ended up not being right for me because I had such strong feelings and opinions on what I wanted that film to be. Although I really like what they're going to do with it, it's not the film that I was going to make. So that one wasn't going to work out."

As fate would have it, his next film ended up being Warcraft; an equally large production with a huge, rabid fanbase. Looking back at Nolan's shortlist, it's crazy how much talent he scouted for the film.

Flame me all you want, but I thought every single one of those guys were far superior filmmakers and storytellers than Zack. Probably wouldn't have delivered as striking images, but ultimately we would've received a better made and received film.

 

[manofsteel4life]

No flame needed.....but I'll say this.....no matter who directed MOS or whatever it would have been called, I think it still would have divided fans....cause superman fans for a long time have been divided for soo long.....eveyone has their own view on what superman or superman film should be.

 

[Flint Marko]

No flame needed.....but I'll say this.....no matter who directed MOS or whatever it would have been called, I think it still would have divided fans....cause superman fans for a long time have been divided for soo long.....eveyone has their own view on what superman or superman film should be.

I don't agree with this. Every movie has people who don't like it, sure, but I have never bought into this whole "innate bias" or "preconceived notions" some have about Superman. Didn't stop the Reeves/Donner films from being almost universally loved when they came out.

 

[DA_Champion]

Nolan expected whatever filmmaker he hired to follow the script he co-wrote with David Goyer. He was hiring a director to point and shoot.

 

[manofsteel4life]

I don't agree with this. Every movie has people who don't like it, sure, but I have never bought into this whole "innate bias" or "preconceived notions" some have about Superman. Didn't stop the Reeves/Donner films from being almost universally loved when they came out.

That's why I said "for soo long"....these days it's all about, not my superman!....or the superman I know wouldn't do this or that....sad but true

 

[Doc Samson]

Everyone seems to hate on Ackerman but I thought she was pretty good and one of the only characters I found interesting.

Well I agree that she made the character a lot more likable for me than she was in the book, I thought she was whiny prude in the novel. She's still somewhat that in the film, but Ackerman made it more tolerable.

I don't agree with this. Every movie has people who don't like it, sure, but I have never bought into this whole "innate bias" or "preconceived notions" some have about Superman. Didn't stop the Reeves/Donner films from being almost universally loved when they came out.

I buy it because IMO it's true to a certain extent. When the Donner films were made it was a completely different time. There weren't multiple superhero movies coming out every summer, wasn't any internet, and the general hypercritical nature of this generation didn't exist yet either.

On top of all that, it was the first time on the silver screen for such an iconic character, and in a period where movies like this simply weren't made or not done well, it was a shock to have Brando (no matter long) or Hackman involved with a production of that scale. Just based on F/X alone it was going to be a cultural moment. Obviously times have changed, and things we take for granted now are the same things audiences were in awe of decades ago. I'm not sure how much anyone cared about Superman being factually correct to his comic roots at the time, they were just happy he was on the big screen to begin with. It's not that simple in this day and age...

 

[DOBSON10]

Well I agree that she made the character a lot more likable for me than she was in the book, I thought she was whiny prude in the novel. She's still somewhat that in the film, but Ackerman made it more tolerable.

Yeah, now that you mention it I guess she was a bit whiny in all her scenes with Dr. Manhattan. Especially in the beginning. But I thought she was very good in the alley scene and the prison breakout with Wilson. Kind of two versions of her character, she was badass when she was with Wilson but she was the somewhat whiny neglected girlfriend whenever she was with Manhattan. I still liked her overall and didn't feel like she was one of the weaker actors/characters by any means.