BvS The Zack Snyder Validation Thread (big rant)

[Mrs. Wayne]

AW guys, apparently Zack called into a Detroit Radio show to defend Aquaman!

 

[CGNefarious]

Is there a clip or recording of the conversation? I would very much like to hear it.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

http://batman-news.com/2014/08/08/b...alls-detroit-radio-show-defend-aquaman-audio/

 

[Chip Chipperson]

it does sound a little like him but I'm calling BS just because how secretive he's been about the project.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Hahaha I guess, but if it's not him, that is a VERY good impression of him!!

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Thanks!

I find the Snyder haters often hate because he's cool to hate. It's because he's mainstream enough to bash, but not popular enough that he's got an army of people supporting him. Though that will change when the Justice League movie comes out (if it's good)

I think he's far more aware of the importance of images (and the intrinsic value of movie-making) than his contemporaries, though he is overly cautious in the writing department. What works on the comic page doesn't always work for film, but it's a far more noble effort than not trying at all. I'm hoping he has a nice balance with Terrio

 

[Joeyjojo72]

When you say "contemporaries", who do you mean exactly?

 

[brownknightrise]

it does sound a little like him but I'm calling BS just because how secretive he's been about the project.

http://www.slashfilm.com/zack-snyder-aquaman-radio/


They confirmed it is him.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

When you say "contemporaries", who do you mean exactly?

I mean, no one really uses visuals to TELL the story and arguably capture emotion like Snyder. He should be celebrated for his gift, not showered with hate. The closest superhero stylist I can think of to Snyder is Sam Raimi, and that was many years ago.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I can't believe the dude stays quiet for so long and just decides to break his silence on a local radio show in detroit t:

The only thing for sure about Snyder…is that nothing's for sure.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Because they were attacking Aquaman!

Trouble is, he's not the best speaker. It doesn't matter. He speaks through movies.

And his movies speak to people. 300 and MOS are both really popular (relatively speaking), while Watchmen and DoTD are considered cult classics.

Of course, an argument through popularity is not an argument at all

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

I can't believe the dude stays quiet for so long and just decides to break his silence on a local radio show in detroit t:

The only thing for sure about Snyder…is that nothing's for sure.

It's the nerd in him, he can't let them diss mah man Aquaman like that!

 

[slumcat]

Thanks!

I find the Snyder haters often hate because he's cool to hate. It's because he's mainstream enough to bash, but not popular enough that he's got an army of people supporting him. Though that will change when the Justice League movie comes out (if it's good)

I think he's far more aware of the importance of images (and the intrinsic value of movie-making) than his contemporaries, though he is overly cautious in the writing department. What works on the comic page doesn't always work for film, but it's a far more noble effort than not trying at all. I'm hoping he has a nice balance with Terrio

I wouldn't quite say that he's the director with the best use of images. His images can impress but need not necessarily be meaningful. By his own admission he goes by whatever looks "awesome" and not necessarily what is necessary or meaningful. So in that sense he's not actually an astute film-maker. Infact I actually found a lot of his blocking pretty suspect in MOS - it was a very problematically shot movie, he seemed out of his depth there.

But the making of awesome images is his strength and he should play to that. His mind works better when he is making something lurid or perverse or out there - 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch etc and very visually accomplished films. He's the pop Brian De Palma or Lynch, the touch of something else is his specialty.

I hope we see a return of that and a departure from the "grounded" **** of MOS.

I want ridiculous crazy-ass comic books images on acid with deep colors and sharp delineation.

 

[jmc]

Why Zack Snyder is the Hero of Superhuman Cinema

Throughout history and mythology, there are generally about only four heroic archetypes. The unlikely hero, the hero who falls,the sacrificial hero, and the villain who becomes a hero (redemption).
Most stories are a celebration of the first type of hero. It’s the tortoise who beats the hare, the rabbit who outfoxes the fox, and the boy who slays the giant. Some are a blend of various archetypes. I would say that Shakespeare’s Romeo is an unlikely hero who loses his ideals for his vision of love, but ends up being a symbol of sacrifice for the redemption of both clans.
But that is quite the exception.

Heroism is most valued when heroes are absent. Ursula K LeGuin wrote a disturbing short story in the 1970s about a boy who has to be tortured and starved in order for a fictional city to thrive. The seeming moral quandary was whether or not to free the poor boy in Omelas. My question was whether to care at all about the fate of a city built on cruelty. It was one I wish I had asked in my philosophy class. But fear held me back from showing my true indignation.
It will not hold me back from writing this article.
Zack Snyder is the scapegoat of superhero cinema. Everything people hate about the comic book mythology on film tends to fall back on poor Snyder. But he is also a hero, because he dusts himself off, and tries again. His opponents raise the bar, not because they want the genre as a whole to succeed, but they want him to fail. “The acting is average.”
Well, are most movies in the superhero genre showcases for strong acting? If not, this is a highly selective criticism, and should be discarded immediately.

“This is soulless.”
Technology IS soulless. It cannot create life. This accusation has been leveled against complex CGI characters, stop motion puppets, and the medium of film itself.*

But technological progression is how movies connect with the younger generation. And they decide what becomes a classic, as they pass it down to their kids later in life.

“He’s a hack.” Anybody who’s been behind the camera working long shoots for over twenty years deserves some level of success. Even Michael Bay.

“Style over substance.” This is the laziest misappropriation of an ancient logical fallacy (based on strong words conveying weak ideas) I have ever seen. Film IS style. All the major old films were technological achievements as well as masterpieces of storytelling. Orson Wells watched John Ford’s groundbreaking Western Stagecoach 40 times to make sure Citizen Kane was a powerful cinematic achievement at the time of creation.

A visual style is a director’s fingerprints, while the substantial elements are in the script, and, at times, the images themselves. A director should not have tone himself down just to make sure the audience “gets it.”

Zack is damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. If he clings too faithfully, he’s accused of lacking imagination. If he changes to supposed mythology, he’s accused of alteration of the characters. He can’t win, and he knows this.

But that’s okay. Because he isn’t fighting to win. He’s fighting for the progression of the genre on film.

In a world in which escapism within this genre is placed in a higher value than mythological storytelling, and “fun” is placed in a higher plane than heroism itself, this genre needs some films with demanding ideas. But (unlike some directors) he layers those ideas with action, drama, and character. And his visuals are unbeatable.

You can disagree. And that’s just fine. Film is art, and art always impacts people differently.

But don’t hate him for being an artist. If you must hate, hate on a case by case basis. But don’t hate him for being average. That’s lunacy in a nutshell.

But keep in mind, he’s now paired up with an Oscar winning screenwriter. He’ll go farther than ever before. And you won’t be able to stop him.


So, get ready for SnyderMan! He's DC's brightest hope.

Sources:

http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/89/Citizen-Kane/articles.html
http://kottke.org/08/06/early-movie-reviews

http://www.comicon.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=259494

http://media.gunaxin.com/stop-motion-animation-sucks/65361

Nobody hates Snyder. It's just his flaws are glaringly obvious to some.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

As much as I like slumcats speeches, I disagree with this one. ANY evocative image is meaningful. Maybe not to everyone, but that's the great thing about art. It can always be argued.

I find that many people tend to find meaning in the imagery and stories they LIKE, and selectively ignore the stuff they don't like.

I find the distance from style in MOS not meaningless, but indicative of where Zack was emotionally when he made MOS. People claiming to be fans threw Zack under the bus for making a personal film that did not connect to many (The weird beast that is Sucker Punch. Zack was scared to be himself, and it shows (Some moments would have been great with his signature slo-mo). When people responded mostly well to MOS, Zack gained the confidence to merge his various styles together for DoS (as indicated from the promo pics).

Watchmen Style for Superman (probably in Gotham)

MOS/Naturalistic for Batman

300 style for Wonder Woman (appropriate for her mythological nature)

I'll be amazed if it's both a fully realized Zack Snyder spectacle and Chris Terrio ensemble flick. Thrilled, even

 

[jmc]

There's still the issue of Snyder and storytelling. The images make only half of the entire project. It's not a case of the script being right, it's about him understanding the script and what makes it right.

 

[DA_Champion]

Nobody hates Snyder. It's just his flaws are glaringly obvious to some.

A lot of people loathe Snyder, he's one of the most reviled creatives in geekdom along with Michael Bay, Roberto Orci, and Brett Ratner, and it's causing some other people to end up being defensive about him.

 

[jmc]

It's because there's divide between those who appreciate his reverence to source material and those who want the best possible film.

 

[DA_Champion]

It's because there's divide between those who appreciate his reverence to source material and those who want the best possible film.

I disagree. A lot of people loved 300 and Watchmen without ever reading the source material, in fact the vast (overwhelmingly vast) majority of people who enjoyed those two movies had never read the source material.

For me, it's simply the fact that when I peruse a lot of geek media, be it Badass Digest, io9.com, or youtube bloggers like comicbookgirl19 or redlettermedia, Zack Snyder is commonly derided as the devil, he has the mind of a 12 year old and Sucker Punch was his *********ory fantasy, et cetera, he is a 0/10 director with no redeeming qualities whatsoever except for visuals and even with visuals people are starting to complain his movies don't look as good as The Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy.

There are very, very few people who claim Snyder is a top-5 director, or whatever. The exaggerated defense you see of him is a reaction to the exaggerated hate.

 

[Bathead]

Nobody hates Snyder. It's just his flaws are glaringly obvious to some.

And some think these supposed "flaws" are a huge exaggeration.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

A lot of people loathe Snyder, he's one of the most reviled creatives in geekdom along with Michael Bay, Roberto Orci, and Brett Ratner, and it's causing some other people to end up being defensive about him.

The difference between him and those guys is he inspires.

Look at these shorts.

[YT]watch?v=XATiV3gmy-Q[/YT]

[YT]watch?v=lrpMpNBMixE[/YT]

Also, Ratner's not that bad. He's a good producer

 

[Steamteck]

It's because there's divide between those who appreciate his reverence to source material and those who want the best possible film.

I disagree. I think there can often be both for one thing.

Also I literally hate ( loathe would not be too strong a word) the Watchmen Graphic novel but really enjoyed the movie. so much, I got the director's cut Blu ray.
I never read 300 and really liked the film. Again its in my personal collection.

Sucker Punch has been his only real miss for me but the fantasy sequences were still amazing.

 

[Steamteck]

And some think these supposed "flaws" are a huge exaggeration.

Agree with you there. I will contend if other directors were viewed with the same lens they'd have glaring "flaws" also.

 

[MaskettaMan]

There are people that "loathe" Snyder? I can understand not liking his films, but "loathe" him? He is the nicest guy in Hollywood, i'd buy him a beer anytime!

 

[Milu]

I don't see the point in hating someone because they made a movie you don't like, especially when it's someone as welcoming as Snyder.