Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[KalvinEllis]

However, if someone were to engage in the extreme of saying they didn't want the N-word as MJ then they would be a racist bigot, but no one on here has done that. Maybe on other forums or Facebook, Twitter or wherever but not here. And if someone does engage in that extreme... screw that person and their hate.

I can be unhappy about the possible casting because I wanted a traditional look for the character and an actual redhead play her, but at the end of the day... I'm not the one in charge or signing the checks to be cashed. It's Marvel and Sony's call and I can complain all day about how I wanted a more traditional MJ, Liz, Ned, Sally, or Flash but they're the studios making the call. I'm just a fan like others venting my frustrations and concerns.

Exactly. By all means, I'd never deny the existence of racist bigoted trolls, but it can be beyond frustrating to see that these are the only type of "fans" that the media gives any attention to. Because like I said before, that's what suits their agenda. They would never say that people don't like a casting choice because they'd like to see a faithful accurate portrayal both from a personality as well as visual standpoint, they would say they don't like it because they are lonely, sad, have no lives, no jobs and live on the internet. This crap makes me want to pull my hair out. Whenever this happens, they constantly accuse fans of lacking vision and understanding, yet they show zero understanding towards where some fan complaints might be coming from. And when all is said and done, they are the ones always considered to be the reasonable ones. It's ****ed up.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Can we get the title of this thread changed to Zendaya is MJ? Because those initials might not even stand for Mary Jane but Michelle Johnson or something else.

PM a mod. They'll change a thread title if you request it.

 

[def28]

This is what I referring to.

As for you questions, the big two haven't really been pushing for new characters, and the ones that they have tried to create in the past haven't worked out, my statement on how readers (b/c that is who I am referring to) don't care about new characters is talking about new minority characters as well even legacy characters who are minorities or even old establish minority characters, sorry for not clarifying.

It seems Marvel and DC are aware how new original non-legacy characters have sold in the past and have stopped trying, and used an alternative method, as stated before Marvel and DC have the power to put their foot down and really do something, but they want instant gratification in terms of money and they're not gonna do that by printing a book that's gonna take a while to gain some fans and to them waste money printing a book that's not giving them sales.

There were not even that many new solo books being pushed last decade. Around this time 10 years ago it was Spidey, Avengers, X-Men, Ultimate and Fantastic Four holding it down for Marvel. Heck Moon Knight was a seller. Hulk and Iron Man were not even in the top 50.

Again, they just don't try. Right now Marvel found a schtick that got attention along with constantly rebooting. Now sales are dropping because it's becoming redundant. Like everything, it won't hold.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Exactly. By all means, I'd never deny the existence of racist bigoted trolls, but it can be beyond frustrating to see that these are the only type of "fans" that the media gives any attention to. Because like I said before, that's what suits their agenda. They would never say that people don't like a casting choice because they'd like to see a faithful accurate portrayal both from a personality as well as visual standpoint, they would say they don't like it because they are lonely, sad, have no lives, no jobs and live on the internet. This crap makes me want to pull my hair out. Whenever this happens, they constantly accuse fans of lacking vision and understanding, yet they show zero understanding towards where some fan complaints might be coming from. Yet, they are considered to be the reasonable ones here. It's ****ed up.

More clicks if they throw us under the bus as opposed to actually browsing threads, forums, etc.

There have been some few notable exceptions, however, such as the site which will not be named and how it got put on blast (gloriously) for being completely sexist and disgusting towards Shailene Woodley's Mary Jane which they claimed was 'satirical'.

Most times, however, they group all of us.

 

[PeterBenParker]

There were not even that many new solo books being pushed last decade. Around this time 10 years ago it was Spidey, Avengers, X-Men, Ultimate and Fantastic Four holding it down for Marvel. Heck Moon Knight was a seller.

Again, they just don't try. Right now Marvel found a schtick that got attention along with constantly rebooting. Now sales are dropping because it's becoming redundant. It won't hold.

There's also the issue that their reboots are namely a sales technique rather than actually being a reboot. Some are, such as Amadeus' Hulk and others, but Spider-Man? Nah, that's just continuing from Superior Spider-Man.

I honestly wish they'd just reboot all of their titles and start fresh with new writers and just get a full clean slate going. Instead, I find myself being really pick-and-choose-y when it comes to buying titles.

 

[def28]

There's also the issue that their reboots are namely a sales technique rather than actually being a reboot. Some are, such as Amadeus' Hulk and others, but Spider-Man? Nah, that's just continuing from Superior Spider-Man.

I honestly wish they'd just reboot all of their titles and start fresh with new writers and just get a full clean slate going. Instead, I find myself being really pick-and-choose-y when it comes to buying titles.

Yeah man, it's annoying and getting confusing for readers. At least DC put up 52 issues. Spidey was what 20?

Clean slate makes sense as things are just getting messy. I think that will be their next go to because this sales technique of going back to issue 1 too often is wearing thin.

 

[X Knight]

speaking of Shailene, I didn't have much interest when TASM 2 came out, so I largely avoided the whole uproar over her casting.

so, out of curiosity, I just looked up her MJ set pics, and I can see the criticism. in the set pics, she doesn't have the right look for MJ. then I look at other non MJ pics of Shailene, and again I ask the question - "why can't Shailene's MJ look like those other pics?"

and it's the same deal with Zendaya. In both cases, they take an otherwise beautiful actress, and for whatever infinite wisdom, they decide to go for a "dressdowned" plain look. which doesn't suit the character.

and I don't blame Zendaya or Shailene. I blame the director, wardrobe, stylist, whoever is responsible for making the actresses look the particular way.

and that's why for me, this issue isn't just about race. I'd complain just as loud if they cast a caucasian actress ( like Shailene ) and totally made her look so not like MJ.

I can't comment on what Shailene MJ's personality and character was supposed to be like ( does anyone know? ).

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I must say I am surprised that Marvel got an actress who can easily play a bombshell MJ and didn't go with that angle even though it's a very popular angle that most fans wanted. I have no deep feelings on the matter, I'm just surprised Marvel went a different route seemingly.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Yeah man, it's annoying and getting confusing for readers. At least DC put up 52 issues. Spidey was what 20?

Clean slate makes sense as things are just getting messy. I think that will be their next go to because this sales technique of going back to issue 1 too often is wearing thin.

I really hope so.

I can't comment on what Shailene MJ's personality and character was supposed to be like ( does anyone know? ).

Very Ultimate inspired.

 

[Havok83]

This backlash is huge and overshadowing Zendaya, the role and the film. IMO, it wasnt worth it

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Can we get the title of this thread changed to Zendaya is MJ? Because those initials might not even stand for Mary Jane but Michelle Johnson or something else.

Or why not M? It implies she could be one or the other. But I definitely agree. Until Marvel confirms it and makes it official, she's still Michelle or some combination of Michelle Gonzales and MJ (not to mention others.)

 

[PeterBenParker]

I will agree with the majority that making Zendaya being classic MJ right from the get-go would've been wise. If they wanted to add their own flair, they could've merged a bit of Ultimate with her by making her Peter's best (and childhood) friend.

Ah well. Now we face a divisive situation..again.

 

[X Knight]

I really hope so.



Very Ultimate inspired.

that's interesting that TASM MJ would have been very Ultimate inspired, when as I've said before, TASM Gwen already felt very Ultimate MJ inspired.

maybe that's why they ultimate ( no pun intended ) decided to drop TASM MJ.

 

[KalvinEllis]

speaking of Shailene, I didn't have much interest when TASM 2 came out, so I largely avoided the whole uproar over her casting.

so, out of curiosity, I just looked up her MJ set pics, and I can see the criticism. in the set pics, she doesn't have the right look for MJ. then I look at other non MJ pics of Shailene, and again I ask the question - "why can't Shailene's MJ look like those other pics?"

and it's the same deal with Zendaya. In both cases, they take an otherwise beautiful actress, and for whatever infinite wisdom, they decide to go for a "dressdowned" plain look. which doesn't suit the character.

and I don't blame Zendaya or Shailene. I blame the director, wardrobe, stylist, whoever is responsible for making the actresses look the particular way.

and that's why for me, this issue isn't just about race. I'd complain just as loud if they cast a caucasian actress ( like Shailene ) and totally made her look so not like MJ.

I can't comment on what Shailene MJ's personality and character was supposed to be like ( does anyone know? ).

Well, this is what's called common sense from a comic fan. Something the entertainment media buries deeper than Doomsday buried Superman.

As for MJ, I think she was going to be a tomboy/biker chick? Not totally sure, but I don't think she was going to be a glamour girl.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Very Ultimate inspired.

Oh, I didn't know that. We totally missed out then.

 

[PeterBenParker]

that's interesting that TASM MJ would have been very Ultimate inspired, when as I've said before, TASM Gwen already felt very Ultimate MJ inspired.

maybe that's why they ultimate ( no pun intended ) decided to drop TASM MJ.

She was described as Tomboyish and more Brainy Jane as opposed to classic 616, if I remember it correctly. So that lines up well with Ultimate MJ.

 

[Xrated48]

This backlash is huge and overshadowing Zendaya, the role and the film. IMO, it wasnt worth it

Ikr

 

[Dark Raven]

Or why not M? It implies she could be one or the other. But I definitely agree. Until Marvel confirms it and makes it official, she's still Michelle or some combination of Michelle Gonzales and MJ (not to mention others.)

The thread could be Zendaya is M, possibly second initial J.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Oh, I didn't know that. We totally missed out then.

Yeah, mostly because she being kept would've fixed some issues from TASM2 (but not all, obviously).

For example, Aunt May needs Peter to get her car from the shop for her work and that's the last we hear of it. With the MJ stuff, we see Peter go to retrieve it and get it but it breaks down to where he meets MJ on a motorcycle who offers him a ride due to car troubles.

She'd also meet Gwen in the film and be Peter's next door neighbor. Also, her abusive home life is touched on and Spider-Man even confronts her father, too. She worked as a waitress during the Rhino/Spidey battle and they kept one scene of her in (where her back is to the camera as she watches Rhino cause destruction from inside the coffee shop).

 

[KalvinEllis]

Yeah, mostly because she being kept would've fixed some issues from TASM2 (but not all, obviously).

For example, Aunt May needs Peter to get her car from the shop for her work and that's the last we hear of it. With the MJ stuff, we see Peter go to retrieve it and get it but it breaks down to where he meets MJ on a motorcycle who offers him a ride due to car troubles.

She'd also meet Gwen in the film and be Peter's next door neighbor. Also, her abusive home life is touched on and Spider-Man even confronts her father, too. She worked as a waitress during the Rhino/Spidey battle and they kept one scene of her in (where her back is to the camera as she watches Rhino cause destruction from inside the coffee shop).

Nice. I've seen these pics before, but I didn't know those story tidbits. Man, that makes me sad, she could've been an amazing MJ.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Nice. I've seen these pics before, but I didn't know those story tidbits. Man, that makes me sad, she could've been an amazing MJ.

Yeah, definitely a bummer.

 

[Kurenai]

Zendaya was never gonna be any variation of Michele Gonzales tho... Idk why people are so adamant for a black biracial to play a Latina character or any variation of that latina character that most fans don't even like...

 

[PeterBenParker]

Zendaya was never gonna be any variation of Michele Gonzales tho... Idk why people are so adamant for a black biracial to play a Latina character or any variation of that latina character that most fans don't even like...

'Cause that's OK because she's a "smaller-tier" character but a biracial actress playing a traditionally White more mainstream character is a no-no, I guess.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Not the Michelle Gonzalez nonsense again!

 

[Vampfox]

Doesn't exist. Meh.

Blackwashing does exist. People are just too afraid to talk about it because they're afraid that people will think that they are racist if they speak out against it.