Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread - Part 1

[X Knight]

What if they had Michelle Gonzalez's father be Hispanic and her mother black? Or vice-a-versa?

doesn't matter. the actress would still need to have some kind of Hispanic in her. whether she's half-black/half-Hispanic or half-white/half-Hispanic or full Hispanic, she needs to be Hispanic to play a character who's supposed to be Hispanic and who is named Gonzales.

I mean, if I didn't know what Zendaya's ethnicity was, I might actually assume she's Hispanic or has some Hispanic in her. Even her name sounds more Latin/Zendaya to me.

but then if I found her she's actually half-black and half-white with no Hispanic in her, then I wouldn't think she'd be appropriate for the role of Michele Gonzalez or White Tiger.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

SSM MJ is the perfect template to use for HS MJ. SSM as a whole is also the perfect template to base the new film series on.

SSM MJ was pretty awesome. I loved her raspy voice too. Reminded me of Emma Stone.

 

[sl500jazz]

Yeah, mostly because she being kept would've fixed some issues from TASM2 (but not all, obviously).

For example, Aunt May needs Peter to get her car from the shop for her work and that's the last we hear of it. With the MJ stuff, we see Peter go to retrieve it and get it but it breaks down to where he meets MJ on a motorcycle who offers him a ride due to car troubles.

She'd also meet Gwen in the film and be Peter's next door neighbor. Also, her abusive home life is touched on and Spider-Man even confronts her father, too. She worked as a waitress during the Rhino/Spidey battle and they kept one scene of her in (where her back is to the camera as she watches Rhino cause destruction from inside the coffee shop).

Spoiler

Meh. Never got MJ vibes from Woodley...and I'm honestly glad we never got Mary Jane in those films. Not with the way the crew described the character as being "after Spider-man" or the description of those scenes with Spider-man tying up her father. Plus, it would've been difficult to follow up Peter and Gwen with the chemistry between those actors and with Gwen being made Peter's confidant instead of Mary Jane.

 

[harryoscop]

SSM MJ was awesome

 

[X Knight]

We are, not every girl right away turns into a party girl at some point i mean she is only in high school. She will probably be the accurate comic version of the character once she gets to college.

that is true, but that doesn't mean you start from the complete opposite.

look at Peter. he's a science nerd. that's his character type. and he's pretty much a science nerd throughout his entire HS years and beyond. The change is that he becomes less introverted and more confident as he gets older and after he gets his powers. But he's still a nerd throughout HS - that's the core of his character.

It would be like if Peter starts HS as a jock who's into sports and sucks at science. after the spider bite, he becomes more fascinated with science and biology and chemistry as he studies more about spiders, web fluid, etc. by his senior year, he's stopped being a jock and is full on science nerd.

That's not Peter. That's never been his backstory - to transform from non science jock to science loving nerd in HS. If you gave him that arc, you've changed the character completely.

Same with MJ. She doesn't have to be a hard partying girl right off the bat. That's probably not very appropriate for HS anyways.

But she should be someone who's proud of the way she looks and dresses ( she's pretty and she knows it and she like to show it off ). She should be outgoing, fun, playful, sassy, and flirty. She lights up the room every time she walks in. She should be the girl that all the guys are tripping over themselves to ask to the prom. That's who MJ is. That's her character type. She shouldn't have to "grow" into that character.

She should not have to start from the complete opposite - dry, awkward, buried in books, dressed so frumpy and plain looking. Transforming from that extreme to classic MJ has never been part of her backstory, as far as I know. Just like Peter transforming from sports jock to science nerd has never been part of his backstory.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

How would people feel if Zendaya played MJ in a fat suit for most of the movie and she's the obese ugly duckling basketcase who decides to lose weight. Then when she's shed the pounds for the homecoming dance she surprises Peter and everyone else and gives the famous jackpot line.
Would people be okay with this character arc which shows her before she became the MJ everyone knew.

 

[sl500jazz]

this. SSM MJ perfectly captured the spirit and essence of the character while still being appropriate for the HS setting. She was the beautiful, playful, sassy, flirty, popular alpha girl on the show. She was classic MJ from the comics done in HS.

that's the route they should have followed in Homecoming. Instead, they apparently took inspiration from SSM Gwen, because that's the direction they seem to be taking Z's MJ ( and to an even more extreme level than SSM Gwen ).

SSM MJ is the perfect template to use for HS MJ. SSM as a whole is also the perfect template to base the new film series on.

The irony here is that as you pointed out (though I'm not sure how this case is more extreme unless you're talking about the race change ) Spectacular did the exact same thing with Gwen. 616 Gwen was never a homely nerd. Like MJ she was a straight up bombshell and had boys tripping over her feet at ESU. She was even a popular "beauty queen" at standard high.

Presumably this just being done for a jackpot suprise by the end of the film. Zendaya supposedly doesnt have a major role in this film...so 1 or 2 scenes of pre-makover MJ, a reveal by the end of the film, and full on MJ in time for the sequels is what I'm hoping for.

 

[Fincher]

I understand fans wanting it now but you don't want a 10th grade MJ being a 'bombshell', do you?

Buffy was in 10th grade in the first season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

 

[Dark Raven]

Buffy was in 10th grade in the first season of Buffy the Vampire.

And so was Cordelia, who should be more of a template for MJ.

 

[X Knight]

The irony here is that as you pointed out (though I'm not sure how this case is more extreme unless you're talking about the race change ) Spectacular did the exact same thing with Gwen. 616 Gwen was never a homely nerd. Like MJ she was a straight up bombshell and had boys tripping over her feet at ESU. She was even a popular "beauty queen" at standard high.

Presumably this just being done for a jackpot suprise by the end of the film. Zendaya supposedly doesnt have a major role in this film...so 1 or 2 scenes of pre-makover MJ, a reveal by the end of the film, and full on MJ in time for the sequels is what I'm hoping for.

that point about SSM Gwen is true. they did change the character in SSM.

but SSM Gwen wasn't exactly a homely nerd, either. she dressed more conservatively at the beginning, wore glasses, had her hair back, etc. But she was still cute and attractive. Granted it was a cartoon. But she wasn't a plain girl. And she still looked like Gwen overall ( blonde, blue eyes ). She was the type of girl that looked cute in glasses but looks prettier when she lets her hair down and takes the glasses off.

To me, Z's MJ is so drastically different than what classic MJ should be. Not just the race change ( which by itself is a drastic departure ), but also the overall look and personality traits. So for me, it's a more drastic change.

And I'll be honest here. I hold MJ to a higher standard to Gwen. Why? Because when I got into reading Spider-Man back when I was growing up, Peter was married to MJ. I didn't really know about Gwen. So, I associate MJ with Peter, just like I do Lois with Clark. Those are the 2 most iconic comic couples for me.

So, I'm more biased towards MJ, and thus more "protective" of the character.

does that make sense?

 

[X Knight]

now, I will throw this scenario out there. I came across this when reading some person's comments on another site.

so, this is not my idea.

but basically it went like this, I believe. What if in this world, Z's MJ is already a hot teen model. She's on magazine covers, billboards, etc. Maybe Peter and his friends see those pictures of MJ when they are out and about.

But, to fit in at school, MJ intentionally dresses down and makes herself look plain and dyes her hair black/purple or whatever, and goes by the name "Michelle", because she doesn't what people to know that she's really the famous teen model MJ.

of course, by the end of the film, for whatever reason, MJ drops the Michelle act and reveals her true self to Peter with the Jackpot line. And Peter would be like "You're that MJ model!!"

so, nerdy Peter who loses out on Liz Allan and is left dateless for Homecoming, ends up taking the most talked about teen model to the dance instead.

I admit. I would be intrigued by something like that - I could warm up to that. The "Michelle" look and persona is an act she puts on, but the real MJ is more like the fun loving, sassy, bombshell MJ we know and love.

what do you guys think?

 

[Dark Raven]

now, I will throw this scenario out there. I came across this when reading some person's comments on another site.

so, this is not my idea.

but basically it went like this, I believe. What if in this world, Z's MJ is already a hot teen model. She's on magazine covers, billboards, etc. Maybe Peter and his friends see those pictures of MJ when they are out and about.

But, to fit in at school, MJ intentionally dresses down and makes herself look plain, and goes by the name "Michelle", because she doesn't what people to know that she's really the famous teen model MJ.

of course, by the end of the film, for whatever reason, MJ drops the Michelle act and reveals her true self to Peter with the Jackpot line. And Peter would be like "You're that MJ model!!"

so, nerdy Peter who loses out on Liz Allan and is left dateless for Homecoming, ends up taking the most talked about teen model to the dance instead.

I admit. I would be intrigued by something like that - I could warm up to that.

what do you guys think?

That's what I was just thinking of literally 5 minutes ago. She could be in disguise or in the witness protection program and has changed her name to Michelle but reveals that Mary Jane is actually her name when the threat is eliminated and she no longer has to hide.

But you know what would be even more effective as a disguise? Hiding out in a fat suit for most of the movie so she's ignored by everyone including Peter until he decides to treat her like a person.

 

[X Knight]

That's what I was just thinking of literally 5 minutes ago. She could be in disguise or in the witness protection program and has changed her name to Michelle but reveals that Mary Jane is actually her name when the threat is eliminated and she no longer has to hide.

But you know what would be even more effective as a disguise? Hiding out in a fat suit for most of the movie so she's ignored by everyone including Peter until he decides to treat her like a person.

hmmm......I think I'll take the already a famous model scenario instead of the witness protection one.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

does that make sense?

Sure it does. I'm the same way. I know there's a lot of emphasis on Spider-Man being a kid in various media today but the Spider-Man, Peter & MJ I grew up with were both grown adults, in a married relationship.

MJ is a character I absolutely adored because she was so charming and charismatic, sweet and funny and so loving, supportive and understanding of Peter and his responsibilities as Spider-Man.

Just from reading a comic, you could easily understand why Peter loved her and why it's been so frustrating that they haven't been able to translate that to live action, so far.

 

[X Knight]

Sure it does. I'm the same way. I know there's a lot of emphasis on Spider-Man being a kid in various media today but the Spider-Man, Peter & MJ I grew up with were both grown adults, in a married relationship.

MJ is a character I absolutely adored because she was so charming and charismatic, sweet and funny and so loving, supportive and understanding of Peter and his responsibilities as Spider-Man.

Just from reading a comic, you could easily understand why Peter loved her and why it's been so frustrating that they haven't been able to translate that to live action, so far.

believe it or not, I actually got into the Spidey comics around the time of the Clone Saga.....lol.

so yeah, at that time Peter and MJ were married adults, and they were about to start a family.

of course we all know how that turned out.

but that's one reason why I have zero interest in the Spidey comics today. Once they broke up Peter and MJ, I was like......I'm out. I'm out.

also, speaking of the Clone Saga, I also really liked your namesake ( Scarlet Spider/Ben Reilly ) at the time.

 

[harryoscop]

now, I will throw this scenario out there. I came across this when reading some person's comments on another site.

so, this is not my idea.

but basically it went like this, I believe. What if in this world, Z's MJ is already a hot teen model. She's on magazine covers, billboards, etc. Maybe Peter and his friends see those pictures of MJ when they are out and about.

But, to fit in at school, MJ intentionally dresses down and makes herself look plain and dyes her hair black/purple or whatever, and goes by the name "Michelle", because she doesn't what people to know that she's really the famous teen model MJ.

of course, by the end of the film, for whatever reason, MJ drops the Michelle act and reveals her true self to Peter with the Jackpot line. And Peter would be like "You're that MJ model!!"

so, nerdy Peter who loses out on Liz Allan and is left dateless for Homecoming, ends up taking the most talked about teen model to the dance instead.

I admit. I would be intrigued by something like that - I could warm up to that. The "Michelle" look and persona is an act she puts on, but the real MJ is more like the fun loving, sassy, bombshell MJ we know and love.

what do you guys think?

That would be awesome!

 

[X Knight]

That would be awesome!

I know. at this point, a scenario like that is about the only way I'd be able to get on board with the direction they're seemingly going for.

and, it would make for an interesting "twist" on the character and provide a logical explanation for such a radical departure.

so now, I'm hoping this is indeed the case.

if not, well............

 

[harryoscop]

I know. at this point, a scenario like that is about the only way I'd be able to get on board with the direction they're seemingly going for.

and, it would make for an interesting "twist" on the character and provide a logical explanation for such a radical departure.

so now, I'm hoping this is indeed the case.

if not, well............

Same. If not, well, as long as she it isn't Michelle Johnson or whatever. Blatant disrespect of the source material

 

[sl500jazz]

that point about SSM Gwen is true. they did change the character in SSM.

but SSM Gwen wasn't exactly a homely nerd, either. she dressed more conservatively at the beginning, wore glasses, had her hair back, etc. But she was still cute and attractive. Granted it was a cartoon. But she wasn't a plain girl. And she still looked like Gwen overall ( blonde, blue eyes ). She was the type of girl that looked cute in glasses but looks prettier when she lets her hair down and takes the glasses off.

To me, Z's MJ is so drastically different than what classic MJ should be. Not just the race change ( which by itself is a drastic departure ), but also the overall look and personality traits. So for me, it's a more drastic change.

And I'll be honest here. I hold MJ to a higher standard to Gwen. Why? Because when I got into reading Spider-Man back when I was growing up, Peter was married to MJ. I didn't really know about Gwen. So, I associate MJ with Peter, just like I do Lois with Clark. Those are the 2 most iconic comic couples for me.

So, I'm more biased towards MJ, and thus more "protective" of the character.

does that make sense?

No I understand. I'm more "protective" of MJ as well. I guess my criteria for a good adaptation of MJ is a bit looser than yours. It also helps that I'm generally pleased with the casting choice and think she has potential to be a great MJ above previous choices and other names put forward. I'm just excited about the prospect that MJ will be important to Spider-Man again and that we may be getting a positive portrayal of MJ at all even if it's not entirely accurate. With the exception of some recent developments Marvel hasnt exactly been pro-Mary Jane over the last few years. I wouldnt have been suprised if they dropped the character entirely.

now, I will throw this scenario out there. I came across this when reading some person's comments on another site.

so, this is not my idea.

but basically it went like this, I believe. What if in this world, Z's MJ is already a hot teen model. She's on magazine covers, billboards, etc. Maybe Peter and his friends see those pictures of MJ when they are out and about.

But, to fit in at school, MJ intentionally dresses down and makes herself look plain and dyes her hair black/purple or whatever, and goes by the name "Michelle", because she doesn't what people to know that she's really the famous teen model MJ.

of course, by the end of the film, for whatever reason, MJ drops the Michelle act and reveals her true self to Peter with the Jackpot line. And Peter would be like "You're that MJ model!!"

so, nerdy Peter who loses out on Liz Allan and is left dateless for Homecoming, ends up taking the most talked about teen model to the dance instead.

I admit. I would be intrigued by something like that - I could warm up to that. The "Michelle" look and persona is an act she puts on, but the real MJ is more like the fun loving, sassy, bombshell MJ we know and love.

what do you guys think?

Yeah I read that theory too. I don't know how I'd feel about it since I was never really a fan of MJ being uber famous (I prefer her as aspiring to break into the field or c list at best), but having a "secret identity" like Peter does sound intriguing. Though I still wouldnt want her to use the name Michelle. Just dress down to avoid attracting attention.

 

[Dark Raven]

What if MJ is actually Mike Johnson who is under going a sex change and changes his name to Michelle while it's not yet complete. He could have a character arc where he's a confused basket case boy who decides he needs a change to become who he feels he really is inside. Then at the end when the surgery is complete and he no longer has to keep taking oestrogen pills he changes his name to Mary Jane and becomes the character we all know. He also changes his last name to Watson because he feels that Johnson no longer exists and is irrelevant.

That's still a character arc for MJ. Maybe not the traditional one but an arc nevertheless.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

now, I will throw this scenario out there. I came across this when reading some person's comments on another site.

so, this is not my idea.

but basically it went like this, I believe. What if in this world, Z's MJ is already a hot teen model. She's on magazine covers, billboards, etc. Maybe Peter and his friends see those pictures of MJ when they are out and about.

But, to fit in at school, MJ intentionally dresses down and makes herself look plain and dyes her hair black/purple or whatever, and goes by the name "Michelle", because she doesn't what people to know that she's really the famous teen model MJ.

of course, by the end of the film, for whatever reason, MJ drops the Michelle act and reveals her true self to Peter with the Jackpot line. And Peter would be like "You're that MJ model!!"

so, nerdy Peter who loses out on Liz Allan and is left dateless for Homecoming, ends up taking the most talked about teen model to the dance instead.

I admit. I would be intrigued by something like that - I could warm up to that. The "Michelle" look and persona is an act she puts on, but the real MJ is more like the fun loving, sassy, bombshell MJ we know and love.

what do you guys think?

1. That's basically turning Mary Jane Watson into Hannah Montana.

2. Other than the "Jackpot" line and her being a model and actress, the whole thing that she goes by another alias reads as still to me as a total disrespect of the character.

If she's Michelle, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD make her Michelle Gonzales or whatever last name they want to give her and be done with this silly old thing. If she's Mary Jane Watson then Marvel it's time to say if she is or isn't and put this to rest. Not say I and other fans will still like she's not a real redhead, race-changed or personality/arc has changed, but it'll be an end to the madness.

 

[harryoscop]

She's not Hispanic, so therefore her last name shouldn't be Gonzales. I'm also glad these White Tiger suggestions can finally die too..

 

[X Knight]

well, the "undercover" scenario is the only scenario I'd be willing to entertain. it's not my ideal scenario, but I'm at least open to something like that.

hopefully, we find out some more concrete info about the character soon.

and hopefully, Marvel will just come out and confirm ( or deny ) this. cuz I agree, it's time to stop playing coy and drop the mystery act.

 

[harryoscop]

well, the "undercover" scenario is the only scenario I'd be willing to entertain. it's not my ideal scenario, but I'm at least open to something like that.

hopefully, we find out some more concrete info about the character soon.

and hopefully, Marvel will just come out and confirm ( or deny ) this. cuz I agree, it's time to stop playing coy and drop the mystery act.

Possibly tomorrow from the set visit

 

[X Knight]

Possibly tomorrow from the set visit

well, hopefully we get something positive.