Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 3

[KalvinEllis]

I can see people saying that Michelle MJ's non-whiteness is essential to her character and completely tied up in her identity even though she was a complete bastardisation of an existing white character who now has nothing left but her initials.

That's just how people operate these days. If the character is originally white, nothing about them should be preserved or considered to be an important part of who they are. The "upgraded" version is the real deal and going to back to the "outdated" version is a sign of regression that noone wants to know about. This is how they see the original Nick Fury, that's how they would see the actual Mary Jane in 5-10 years time as well. And you know what, I would have no problem with that if her name was actually Mary Jane Watson. Instead she's a random character that has nothing to do with her except the initials. I can't wait for DC to reboot Superman again, where Clark Kent is dating some introverted librarian called Laura Lavigne, because they wouldn't want to make her some sassy investigative reporter called Lois Lane. That would be too outdated in 2025.

 

[X Knight]

the sad thing is, if they wanted the new MJ Watson to be black/biracial, they should have just let Zendaya be Mary Jane Watson and kept the spirit of the character intact ( playful alpha female model ). Zendaya is clearly capable of pulling that off both in terms of attitude and looks, as evidenced by the many pics/gifs of "hot Zendaya" shared in this thread.

that way, the only thing different about the character would have been the skin color and her possible lack of red hair. But everything else would have been "classic" MJ Watson.

that would have been a hell of a lot better than what we are getting now, which is a totally original character, with wildly different look and personality, who just happens to share the initials of "MJ" without being THE MJ.

it's........the worst possible scenario. You hijack the name of a popular, iconic character, which most likely precludes that character from being used in the future. However, in doing so, you then saddle your original character with all the baggage and negative backlash from fans of classic MJ.

so, you undercut classic MJ AND you also undercut your new character Michelle.

iow......STUPID!!!

 

[Shikamaru]

The irony with calling MJ "dated" is that she was a representation of second wave feminism for her time. The character was revolutionary for a love interest.

I actually don't mind the race change, but changing her personality like that? Michelle is the real regression.

 

[X Knight]

Technically if Superman can have in his life

Lois Lane
Lucy Lane
Lex Luthor
Lena Luthor
Lana Lang

See where Im going with this ?

Why cant Peter ?

I said this the other day.

that's pretty much the only way to salvage this situation.

make it a running "gag" or theme that Peter has many "MJs" in his life, just like Clark has many LLs.

 

[fuflipflops]

the sad thing is, if they wanted the new MJ Watson to be black/biracial, they should have just let Zendaya be Mary Jane Watson and kept the spirit of the character intact ( playful alpha female model ). Zendaya is clearly capable of pulling that off both in terms of attitude and looks, as evidenced by the many pics/gifs of "hot Zendaya" shared in this thread.

that way, the only thing different about the character would have been the skin color and her possible lack of red hair. But everything else would have been "classic" MJ Watson.

that would have been a hell of a lot better than what we are getting now, which is a totally original character, with wildly different look and personality, who just happens to share the initials of "MJ" without being THE MJ.

it's........the worst possible scenario. You hijack the name of a popular, iconic character, which most likely precludes that character from being used in the future. However, in doing so, you then saddle your original character with all the baggage and negative backlash from fans of classic MJ.

so, you undercut classic MJ AND you also undercut your new character Michelle.

iow......STUPID!!!

couldn't have said it better myself. now i'll have a hard time liking michelle because of that, no matter how cool she turns out to be on screen. which is a shame.

 

[rebellion]

Technically if Superman can have in his life

Lois Lane
Lucy Lane
Lex Luthor
Lena Luthor
Lana Lang

& many more

See where Im going with this ?

Why cant Peter have multiple MJs ??

because none of the supes supporting cast is ever referred to as 'LL'.
'MJ' is iconic. its really not that hard to understand.

 

[Dark Raven]

That's just how people operate these days. If the character is originally white, nothing about them should be preserved or considered to be an important part of who they are. The "upgraded" version is the real deal and going to back to the "outdated" version is a sign of regression that noone wants to know about. This is how they see the original Nick Fury, that's how they would see the actual Mary Jane in 5-10 years time as well. And you know what, I would have no problem with that if her name was actually Mary Jane Watson. Instead she's a random character that has nothing to do with her except the initials. I can't wait for DC to reboot Superman again, where Clark Kent is dating some introverted librarian called Laura Lavigne, because they wouldn't want to make her some sassy investigative reporter called Lois Lane. That would be too outdated in 2025.

Must be the less well known sister of Avril. And I don't mean Sally Avril.

I said this the other day.

that's pretty much the only way to salvage this situation.

make it a running "gag" or theme that Peter has many "MJs" in his life, just like Clark has many LLs.

Well, as I said, Michael Jackson would probably like to be Peter's MJ.

 

[KalvinEllis]

the sad thing is, if they wanted the new MJ Watson to be black/biracial, they should have just let Zendaya be Mary Jane Watson and kept the spirit of the character intact ( playful alpha female model ). Zendaya is clearly capable of pulling that off both in terms of attitude and looks, as evidenced by the many pics/gifs of "hot Zendaya" shared in this thread.

that way, the only thing different about the character would have been the skin color and her possible lack of red hair. But everything else would have been "classic" MJ Watson.

that would have been a hell of a lot better than what we are getting now, which is a totally original character, with wildly different look and personality, who just happens to share the initials of "MJ" without being THE MJ.

it's........the worst possible scenario. You hijack the name of a popular, iconic character, which most likely precludes that character from being used in the future. However, in doing so, you then saddle your original character with all the baggage and negative backlash from fans of classic MJ.

so, you undercut classic MJ AND you also undercut your new character Michelle.

iow......STUPID!!!

It's idiotic. If they wanted to change her ethnicity and some of her personality, then just follow the Iris West example. Iris has some subtle differences in terms of personality but literally the only notable difference about her is the fact that she's now black. She is still a reporter, she is still related to Wally West, she still investigated The Flash, and her name is ACTUALLY Iris West, not Irene Waters or whatever.

 

[harryoscop]

Exactly. Iris is black but she's STILL Iris! She still has all of the basic Iris traits. She's not iris in name only initials only. There's no excuse for this BS

 

[Poppy]

The irony with calling MJ "dated" is that she was a representation of second wave feminism for her time. The character was revolutionary for a love interest.

I actually don't mind the race change, but changing her personality like that? Michelle is the real regression.

Couldn't agree more. (Assuming of course her nickname means she's the new Mary Jane. I'm still hoping it's just a nod to mary Jane, nothing more).

 

[Chris B]

I'm confused, did we get some kind of confirmation that Zendaya is indeed playing Mary Jane? Everyone posting in the last page or so is acting as though we did.

 

[KalvinEllis]

I want after the movie is out, while they are still doing promotion for it, someone to just ask them why they decided to do that. What was the point of doing it. What purpose does it serve. X Knight said it better than I ever could. Why undercut both the classic as well as the new character like that.

 

[harryoscop]

I just can't believe Feige would let this happen to Marvel's most iconic & popular love interest

 

[fuflipflops]

I'm confused, did we get some kind of confirmation that Zendaya is indeed playing Mary Jane? Everyone posting in the last page or so is acting as though we did.

a tweet with a [BLACKOUT]gif of the scene where she calls herself mj came out. it's in the spoilers thread[/BLACKOUT]

 

[KalvinEllis]

I just can't believe Feige would let this happen to Marvel's most iconic & popular love interest

I think Feige did say Sony still had some creative control over the movie, despite that it was made by Marvel. If so, then what can I say, never underestimate Amy Pascal's stupidity.

 

[Chris B]

a tweet with a [BLACKOUT]gif of the scene where she calls herself mj came out. it's in the spoilers thread[/BLACKOUT]

I see. [BLACKOUT]In that case, I hope that her name does turn out to be actually Mary Jane Watson at some point. I've never been enthusiastic about it, but I could tolerate an ugly duckling transformation and accompanying character arc to become the character we know, but at least get the name right.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[rebellion]

I think Feige did say Sony still had some creative control over the movie, despite that it was made by Marvel. If so, then what can I say, never underestimate Amy Pascal's stupidity.

im always fascinated how far people will go to defend feige.
what about mandarin? old hank pym? tony making ultron? who do we blame for that?
i honestly doubt amy pascal thought of this. she was probably too busy snorting.

 

[X Knight]

I see. [BLACKOUT]In that case, I hope that her name does turn out to be actually Mary Jane Watson at some point. I've never been enthusiastic about it, but I could tolerate an ugly duckling transformation and accompanying character arc to become the character we know, but at least get the name right.[/BLACKOUT]

but that's the thing. She's [BLACKOUT]MJ but not THE Mary Jane Watson[/BLACKOUT].

 

[X Knight]

Exactly. Iris is black but she's STILL Iris! She still has all of the basic Iris traits. She's not iris in name only initials only. There's no excuse for this BS

and see. that also speaks to the "influence" of these tv shows and films.

I am not familiar with the Flash universe or his characters, other than basic knowledge. My 1st real exposure to Flash has been through the tv show.

as such, to me, Iris and Joe West are black. So, going forward, I kind of expect them to be black in other media, cuz that's what I'm used to.

 

[KalvinEllis]

im always fascinated how far people will go to defend feige.
what about mandarin? old hank pym? tony making ultron? who do we blame for that?
i honestly doubt amy pascal thought of this. she was probably too busy snorting.

Oh no, believe me, I'm no Feige apologist. If he was the one who came up with this nonsense, shame on him.

 

[KalvinEllis]

and see. that also speaks to the "influence" of these tv shows and films.

I am not familiar with the Flash universe or his characters, other than basic knowledge. My 1st real exposure to Flash has been through the tv show.

as such, to me, Iris and Joe West are black. So, going forward, I kind of expect them to be black in other media, cuz that's what I'm used to.

Yep and for those of us who are familiar with the Flash universe, that show is a good example of why Iris doesn't need to look like this to feel like Iris. Same thing could've been done with MJ.

 

[Ozbridge]

im always fascinated how far people will go to defend feige.
what about mandarin? old hank pym? tony making ultron? who do we blame for that?
i honestly doubt amy pascal thought of this. she was probably too busy snorting.

Don't you know whatever that is good/ well-made is Feige's work and whatever that is controversial/ sub-par is somehow caused by Pascal's "stupidity" even though Sony just paid for and distributes the movie.

I admit that Feige is a more competent producer but this kind of double standard is unreal.

Btw based on all the (quite explicit) complain is this thread I think a previous character leak is basically confirmed. Such a shame because I quite like it and want to be surprised when seeing the film.

 

[X Knight]

Yep and for those of us who are familiar with the Flash universe, that show is a good example of why Iris doesn't need to look like this to feel like Iris. Same thing could've been done with MJ.

judging from your comment and harry's, I take it that classic comic Iris is pretty similar to tv show Iris in terms of traits, personality, motivation, etc.?

 

[KalvinEllis]

Don't you know whatever that is good/ well-made is Feige's work and whatever that is controversial/ sub-par is somehow caused by Pascal's "stupidity" even though Sony just paid for and distributes the movie.

I admit that Feige is a more competent producer but this kind of double standard is unreal.

Like I said, as far as I'm concerned there's no "double standard". If Feige came up with this, I would absolutely hold him accountable for it.

 

[Chris B]

but that's the thing. She's [BLACKOUT]MJ but not THE Mary Jane Watson[/BLACKOUT].

[BLACKOUT]What exactly was the context in the gif that was posted? I don't want to have go into the spoiler thread to see it. I have a feeling that the reveal will be one of the end credit scenes, in which case, maybe they left some wiggle room for her to have her proper name revealed next time around? [/BLACKOUT]