Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 3

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Yes, Mary Jane is iconic. But maybe Michelle is a better character than her for this universe. Maybe she isn't and they should have done Mary Jane instead. I just want what's best for the movie.

And I find it far fetched that Marvel was afraid of the backlash and that's why they hid that Michelle is most likely going to be MCU Spider-Man's MJ. What would that gain them? The truth would come out eventually.

Again, I would have preferred if Michelle didn't share Mary Jane's nickname, because that was always going to confuse and upset fans of the comic book. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. It would have been worse imo, if they had named Michelle Mary Jane instead. Because then she really would have been an adaptation and really unfaithful one.
 
Yes, Mary Jane is iconic. But maybe Michelle is a better character than her for this universe.

Then she should've just been Michelle. No "MJ" bullcrap. Just let her be her own character.
 
yeah, I should have qualified by saying some MJ fans will be put off.

if you enjoy the direction, then that's great.

it's just not something I care for myself - it's not how I wanted to see the character portrayed.

and, yeah, I agree about the name thing. That's the most mind boggling thing. That's what seems so unneeded, imo.

If Zendaya is your new, modern, non-white Mary Jane Watson, then at least be PROUD of that. Sure, there would be backlash, but at least be open and honest and upfront about it.

but instead they take this sneaky, coy approach and that's what bugs me the most.

I agree with all of this
 
Then she should've just been Michelle. No "MJ" bullcrap. Just let her be her own character.

Agreed. But maybe now general audience will be even more excited about the sequels. Some reviews have mentioned Zendaya as a bright spot in the cast. If people like the character, they might consider iconic initials as a promise of more. That might get some extra butts into seats in the future, leading to a slightly more successful Spider-Man movie series. So maybe there is a silver lining to be found, even if one is disappointed with this nonsense. :)

But now I believe that I have had my take heard enough times, so I wont continue to run in circles. Thanks for the debate guys.
 
I suppose if the character is good then it shouldn't turn into much of a problem. But things like that still feel like cowardly cop-outs.
 
Then she should've just been Michelle. No "MJ" bullcrap. Just let her be her own character.

Exactly. Make it one or the other. Is she a brand new character named Michelle, or is she Mary Jane. Seems pretty simple to me and they apparently didn't handle this the simple way. They did it the sloppy way for no real reason.
 
I suspect a lot of reviewers are gonna praise the route they went with her as opposed to making her the cliche queen bee party chick.
 
Which is misguided because it only compounds the tragedy of it all and it's cowardice approach to handling the character.
 
You're gonna hear a lot of "it's a daring approach to a classic character", etc.
 
I suspect a lot of reviewers are gonna praise the route they went with her as opposed to making her the cliche queen bee party chick.

Now instead she's the even more cliched She's All That/ My Fair Lady/ Grease trope.
 
Thing is, MJ was never the cliché queen bee party trope. It was all an act to hide the loneliness caused by her abusive father. Inside she was always as lonely as Peter was.

Michelle's loneliness *is* technically accurate to 616 MJ, but with that layer of her character taken out.
 
I really don't get it. I'd be willing to support some alterations to the character, but this name change thing is frustrating. If she's going to be an adaptation of MJ, she'd better be called Mary Jane Watson, but this Michelle- J in between is frustrating because it just seems like another attempt to distance Mary Jane from the Spider-Man brand. They're using this new character Michelle as a sub for Mary Jane, while making it nearly impossible for the real MJ to ever make an appearance down the road. It's disappointing. And is Betty really the MCU Gwen?
 
I really don't get it. I'd be willing to support some alterations to the character, but this name change thing is frustrating. If she's going to be an adaptation of MJ, she'd better be called Mary Jane Watson, but this Michelle- J in between is frustrating because it just seems like another attempt to distance Mary Jane from the Spider-Man brand. They're using this new character Michelle as a sub for Mary Jane, while making it nearly impossible for the real MJ to ever make an appearance down the road. It's disappointing. And is Betty really the MCU Gwen?

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if she 'was'.
 
The Gwen complaint is just silly. Betty is just blonde.
 
Well yeah.

And wears a hairband, and a sweater.

You can't deny they at least drew inspiration from some Gwen imagery for her.
 
Even then, it's just imagery. Character wise, she's pretty much Betty from what it seems.

There's honestly no point in even doing Gwen if you're gonna start with MJ. Gwen was the intended "true love", then they killed her off because Conway thought she was bland and found MJ more interesting (as did most people at the time).

You can start with Gwen and later build to MJ. But if you're already doing things with MJ, Gwen's entire purpose goes bye-bye.
 
Now instead she's the even more cliched She's All That/ My Fair Lady/ Grease trope.

Well given that the character already seems confident and witty and funny, I don't see how she's gonna end up all *that* cliche, really. Yes, I'm certain there will be some kind of "makeover" but from everything I've seen about this reboot so far, I don't think tptb will go the most cliched route. Indeed, they seem intent on straying from the what people expect. And I think that has played a big role in how the film is being received by critics. If they gave us all the "classic" elements fans love, I doubt said critics would be raving about how fresh the movie is despite it being the 6th spider-man movie in less than 20 years.

Anyhow, I get the frustration and disappointment some MJ fans feel about the changes but frankly, I think people are overreacting with these "Marvel hates Mary Jane" accusations, at least when it comes to the MCU. IMO, this is merely a case of Feige and Co. wanting to try something new/different, not just giving us a MJ we've seen before. And I know many weren't happy with KD's MJ but she looked the part, she had the relationship with Peter and it all unfolded as expected. Presenting a similar version of that probaby didn't seem fresh or inspiring to Marvel. And I don't have a problem with it as long as they are building towards Mary Jane. I am annoyed with the name change and confusion that has come with it. If she's Mary Jane just call her that and be done with it. The idea of having to wait two years to find out is just a terrible choice, if indeed that's how they're playing it.
 
From what I've heard, she already has quite of bit of wit, humor, and self-confidence to her. So that part of MJ's character seems to be there. Which means that any potential changes will probably be visual/cosmetic.
 
Reckon she'll develop the "MJ" syndrome?

And by that I mean vitiligo like Michael Jackson? :p
 
From what I've heard, she already has quite of bit of wit, humor, and self-confidence to her. So that part of MJ's character seems to be there. Which means that any potential changes will probably be visual/cosmetic.

Exactly, which is why I don't understand how anyone can say she's nothing like MJ. No, she doesn't look the part but again, it's obvious that they're setting her up for a makeover of some sort in future movies.
 
I really don't get it. I'd be willing to support some alterations to the character, but this name change thing is frustrating. If she's going to be an adaptation of MJ, she'd better be called Mary Jane Watson, but this Michelle- J in between is frustrating because it just seems like another attempt to distance Mary Jane from the Spider-Man brand. They're using this new character Michelle as a sub for Mary Jane, while making it nearly impossible for the real MJ to ever make an appearance down the road. It's disappointing. And is Betty really the MCU Gwen?

Indeed frustrating, but what if Michelle isn't going to be Mary Jane Watson. What if she's just going to be Michelle and [BLACKOUT]that 'MJ' line was merely an easter egg[/BLACKOUT]. As in, they just mentioned that line as a throwaway for the fans but in future movies she'll just be called Michelle. Maybe, maybe not. We'll have to see. I'm a bit upset that I learned about that spoiler, it was my own fault though. I clicked on something on a different site looking for some more reactions to the movie and saw that info. Oh well.

Anyway, it seems to me that just about every supporting character in this film is some amalgamation of other characters from the mythos. So, Michelle may at times show some traits of the real MJ but this will end up being the MCU's version of Peter's main love interest. And honestly, many of the characters in past Spider-Man movies have also been some type of amalgamation.

The frustrating part for me is that I am a huge MJ fan. She's one of my favorite Marvel characters and it's saddening to think outside of the comic/source, she's only really been portrayed accurately in one adaptation--that's TSSM animated show.

MJ is a wonderful character and imo she is the perfect foil for Peter Parker. I'm not sure what part of her character is so damning that Marvel has to seek out someone else to be that love interest for Peter. As we saw with Gwen in the ASM films, she was 'perfect' for Peter because she's smart, into science, etc. meaning that she's just like him. They've used this tactic before in comics to no avail, i.e. Carlie Cooper. And none of them are nearly as interesting and perfect for Peter as Mary Jane.

Well given that the character already seems confident and witty and funny, I don't see how she's gonna end up all *that* cliche, really. Yes, I'm certain there will be some kind of "makeover" but from everything I've seen about this reboot so far, I don't think tptb will go the most cliched route. Indeed, they seem intent on straying from the what people expect. And I think that has played a big role in how the film is being received by critics. If they gave us all the "classic" elements fans love, I doubt said critics would be raving about how fresh the movie is despite it being the 6th spider-man movie in less than 20 years.

Anyhow, I get the frustration and disappointment some MJ fans feel about the changes but frankly, I think people are overreacting with these "Marvel hates Mary Jane" accusations, at least when it comes to the MCU. IMO, this is merely a case of Feige and Co. wanting to try something new/different, not just giving us a MJ we've seen before. And I know many weren't happy with KD's MJ but she looked the part, she had the relationship with Peter and it all unfolded as expected. Presenting a similar version of that probaby didn't seem fresh or inspiring to Marvel. And I don't have a problem with it as long as they are building towards Mary Jane. I am annoyed with the name change and confusion that has come with it. If she's Mary Jane just call her that and be done with it. The idea of having to wait two years to find out is just a terrible choice, if indeed that's how they're playing it.

To the emboldened...if Marvel really wanted to be different than previous iterations then they should have used the classic elements of what makes Mary Jane be Mary Jane. Aside from one adaptation that I mentioned above, MJ has yet to truly appear and like you say and I agree with, MJ in Raimi's movies was more or less an amalgamation of other characters and ended up being MJ in looks and name only. Yeah, she had the loneliness bits and the abusive father stuff but where was the outgoing persona? That's ultimately where MJ's strength lies--and that's what makes her character so interesting. I just don't understand why Marvel or Disney or whomever would want to shy away from that because it's truly great storytelling and shows great depth of character and in the end shows just how similar her and Peter really are in their attempts to hide their pain. There's a real earnest quality to MJ and how well she compliments Peter--to not use that, since it's really not be done in the movies at least, baffles me.

That said, I've made a point before in the past about Michelle's character and how she could potentially be Mary Jane. One of the great things that TSSM did with regard to certain characters, like Gwen and Harry for example, is they extrapolated backwards and gave us what the creators of the show felt a HS version would be like. Because when we meet Gwen and Harry in the comics, we meet the College-aged version of them. So, in my thinking, what if Feige is ultimately doing the same--extrapolating backwards to what MJ (Michelle) would be like in HS since when we actually meet her in the comics, she's College-aged and already has that 'party girl' guise. IMO, that could actually work--if they were to do that and not just have Michelle give us an easter egg with that line.
 
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