Batman Begins Things Batman Begins got Right/Wrong

[sasquatchs]

Seeing as he was already a decent fighter the fight training should have been implied for the most part to make room for other skills. I hate the focus on one teacher brainwashing him and giving him everything. Even if he rejects it all at the last minute, he's still just opposing the ideas of one man. Ducard teaching him manhunt skills without the League baloney or Ra's would have been better, alongside his time as part of criminal gangs.

His realization that he had to do something to help Gotham should have come much earlier than about to chop someones head off. He was unfocused and hopeless for too long, focused from the start would have been preferable then we wouldn't have the reprimands from everyone like he was a little child. The script treats Bruce and the audience with contempt the way things are spelled out, there's no subtext or complexity to hold interest on repeat viewings. Not a very imaginative origin, enough ideas there for 5 minutes tops (your father should have done something, take justice into your own hands, use your fear and anger). I wish they hadn't bothered.

 

[RobC]

Wow, really? I think the Begins sequences so to speak, were the bets bits of the film. Although I do sort of agree that she should have decided earlier on to help Gotham.

I guess this is one big split in the camp?

 

[MacLeod]

Seeing as he was already a decent fighter the fight training should have been implied for the most part to make room for other skills. I hate the focus on one teacher brainwashing him and giving him everything. Even if he rejects it all at the last minute, he's still just opposing the ideas of one man. Ducard teaching him manhunt skills without the League baloney or Ra's would have been better, alongside his time as part of criminal gangs.

His realization that he had to do something to help Gotham should have come much earlier than about to chop someones head off. He was unfocused and hopeless for too long, focused from the start would have been preferable then we wouldn't have the reprimands from everyone like he was a little child. The script treats Bruce and the audience with contempt the way things are spelled out, there's no subtext or complexity to hold interest on repeat viewings. Not a very imaginative origin, enough ideas there for 5 minutes tops (your father should have done something, take justice into your own hands, use your fear and anger). I wish they hadn't bothered.

Exactly my thoughts. Whatever happened to Bruce deciding as a child to defend the city and/or the people? The image of a small child praying/vowing by his bed is iconic. Also, training from a child into adulthood in various martial art diciplines would make me believe that one man can take on anyone. Training only in adulthood and possibly under one teacher makes it very unbelievable to me. Also, Bruce should have been choosing to study crminials from an early age compared to not doing well in school, becoming a thief by default, and getting thrown in jail because of real crimes instead of analyzing the criminal element. I know this was the Batman origin story but I think they tampered with the essence of what makes Batman so interesting.

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

Exactly my thoughts. Whatever happened to Bruce deciding as a child to defend the city and/or the people? The image of a small child praying/vowing by his bed is iconic. Also, training from a child into adulthood in various martial art diciplines would make me believe that one man can take on anyone. Training only in adulthood and possibly under one teacher makes it very unbelievable to me. Also, Bruce should have been choosing to study crminials from an early age compared to not doing well in school, becoming a thief by default, and getting thrown in jail because of real crimes instead of analyzing the criminal element. I know this was the Batman origin story but I think they tampered with the essence of what makes Batman so interesting.

With the leaked pics of Bale in the TDK Batcave, it looks like there will be more detective work, at last, the first time since Batman Returns!

And for the iconic scene, you're right, and I'd also add Bruce visiting his parents grave as a good idea for a powerful scene. Perhaps since the flashbacks were about his relationship with his living parents in BB, the continuation of those flashbacks could happen, showing us the praying time at bed and grave scenes, thus showing the relationship of young Bruce with his parents dead.

The elements I put on bold were implied or directly seen in BB, so...

 

[MacLeod]

With the leaked pics of Bale in the TDK Batcave, it looks like there will be more detective work, at last, the first time since Batman Returns!

And for the iconic scene, you're right, and I'd also add Bruce visiting his parents grave as a good idea for a powerful scene. Perhaps since the flashbacks were about his relationship with his living parents in BB, the continuation of those flashbacks could happen, showing us the praying time at bed and grave scenes, thus showing the relationship of young Bruce with his parents dead.

The elements I put on bold were implied or directly seen in BB, so...

I still have a problem with the fact of martial art knowledge being implied prior to Ra's. Begins made Bruce seem like a lost soul, someone who didn't have a clue what to do with his life until he met Ra's. Someone like that doesn't train in various martial arts where proficiency occurs. The only implication I picked up is that Bruce trained with Ra's in Ninjitsu. Either way it's not enough martial art knowledge for Batman.

 

[roach]

He didnt deduce anything in BB

 

[MacLeod]

He didnt deduce anything in BB

I didn't think so either. Maybe the deducing scenes were edited out like all the fighting was.

 

[JamalYIgle]

He didnt deduce anything in BB

you mean other than following Falcone and his men around, bugging their conversations,getting incriminating photos of Judge Fayden,and acting like a detective?

 

[Lobster Charlie]

Not to mention he deduced that Crane's toxin was the same that he was gassed with back at the Monastery.

I'm willing to accept the idea that Batman (in the Nolanverse) is probably going to *acquire his chemistry and detective skills* during the course of his career as Batman.

 

[roach]

you mean other than following Falcone and his men around, bugging their conversations,getting incriminating photos of Judge Fayden,and acting like a detective?

that is not the work of a detective...anyone who works at the National Inquirer does the same thing...are they detectives too???

 

[The Joker]

you mean other than following Falcone and his men around, bugging their conversations,getting incriminating photos of Judge Fayden,and acting like a detective?

How is any of that detective work, though?

He was only doing what was told to him by someone else. He asked Gordon what would it take to bring down Falcone. And, Gordon told him they needed leverage on Judge Fayden, the D.A. to prosecute etc.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Not to mention he deduced that Crane's toxin was the same that he was gassed with back at the Monastery.

I'm willing to accept the idea that Batman (in the Nolanverse) is probably going to *acquire his chemistry and detective skills* during the course of his career as Batman.

Aye. After his parents died he spent most of his life a lost soul, once in his late 20s he began training with Al Ghul then became Batman. He celebrates his 30th birthday in Begins and had only been Batman in Gotham for just a handful of months. Most of his years learning were spent on fighting. I suspect his detective skills and intelligence in science will come as he progresses as Batman over the span of the trilogy.

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

I still have a problem with the fact of martial art knowledge being implied prior to Ra's. Begins made Bruce seem like a lost soul, someone who didn't have a clue what to do with his life until he met Ra's. Someone like that doesn't train in various martial arts where proficiency occurs. The only implication I picked up is that Bruce trained with Ra's in Ninjitsu. Either way it's not enough martial art knowledge for Batman.

I see your point...well, a movie is a movie, it has it flaws (even if this is used in poor argumentation, it's still right, nothing is perfect)! Tough to tell too much on 2h20! At least, it's no butching like Harry Potter in 2h00 that tell not much!

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

Aye. After his parents died he spent most of his life a lost soul, once in his late 20s he began training with Al Ghul then became Batman. He celebrates his 30th birthday in Begins and had only been Batman in Gotham for just a handful of months. Most of his years learning were spent on fighting. I suspect his detective skills and intelligence in science will come as he progresses as Batman over the span of the trilogy.

Exactly! Totally agree with you! The title isn't Batman BEGINS for nothing!
He will be better through the trilogy, that's called human progress in learning, accompanied by its good or bad sides or moments. A reason why Bats is my favorite hero, he CAN be defeatable, he feels real. Not a God, a human! People always prefer characters they can bound with, so Spidey and Bats are the more humans to me, in the common superhero batch we usually hear from.

 

[MacLeod]

Exactly! Totally agree with you! The title isn't Batman BEGINS for nothing!
He will be better through the trilogy, that's called human progress in learning, accompanied by its good or bad sides or moments. A reason why Bats is my favorite hero, he CAN be defeatable, he feels real. Not a God, a human! People always prefer characters they can bound with, so Spidey and Bats are the more humans to me, in the common superhero batch we usually hear from.

I hope he gets better and in which case I'll agree with you. My problem is two fold. One, people on here believe he is a great dective when in the movie it didn't show it. Two, he should have been training to be a great dective since childhood, that is what Batman did. Starting at 29 or 30 to become a dective compared to reading and studying criminals and dective work from a child is a problem in my book. So, maybe he will become better but my point is he should have trained himself more from the begining, not just as an adult. That's why I don't view this as a Batman movie, it's just a vigilante movie, a guy who one day gets pissed and does something about it. Batman becomes Batman the night his parents are born, not at age 29.

 

[roach]

I hope he gets better and in which case I'll agree with you. My problem is two fold. One, people on here believe he is a great dective when in the movie it didn't show it. Two, he should have been training to be a great dective since childhood, that is what Batman did. Starting at 29 or 30 to become a dective compared to reading and studying criminals and dective work from a child is a problem in my book. So, maybe he will become better but my point is he should have trained himself more from the begining, not just as an adult. That's why I don't view this as a Batman movie, it's just a vigilante movie, a guy who one day gets pissed and does something about it. Batman becomes Batman the night his parents are born, not at age 29.

I agree

 

[Rando Aces]

I hope he gets better and in which case I'll agree with you. My problem is two fold. One, people on here believe he is a great dective when in the movie it didn't show it. Two, he should have been training to be a great dective since childhood, that is what Batman did. Starting at 29 or 30 to become a dective compared to reading and studying criminals and dective work from a child is a problem in my book. So, maybe he will become better but my point is he should have trained himself more from the begining, not just as an adult. That's why I don't view this as a Batman movie, it's just a vigilante movie, a guy who one day gets pissed and does something about it. Batman becomes Batman the night his parents are born, not at age 29.

Heck Yes!!!!!!!

you have just summed up everything i found wrong with it.

except for the fact that i thought the movie didnt flow well, and seemed too long.

alright.

 

[JamalYIgle]

How is any of that detective work, though?

He was only doing what was told to him by someone else. He asked Gordon what would it take to bring down Falcone. And, Gordon told him they needed leverage on Judge Fayden, the D.A. to prosecute etc.

what exactly do you think Private detectives do? they take photos, talk to the Police talk to the DA talk to informants.

 

[JamalYIgle]

that is not the work of a detective...anyone who works at the National Inquirer does the same thing...are they detectives too???

Actually the inquirer keep PI's on their payroll so, yes.

 

[roach]

what exactly do you think Private detectives do? they take photos, talk to the Police talk to the DA talk to informants.

He's the worlds greatest detective..not the worlds greatest private dick

 

[roach]

Actually the inquirer keep PI's on their payroll so, yes.

Batman is supposed to be a detective in the same vein as Sherlock Holmes not the guy who digs up dirt on Bruce Willis

 

[The Joker]

what exactly do you think Private detectives do? they take photos, talk to the Police talk to the DA talk to informants.

But, private detectives do it on their own detective work. They work on basically little to no info. That's why people hire them.

Bruce knew exactly who he was looking for and where to find them. He knew Falcone was bent. He knew Judge Fayden was bent. He found out this info thru no use of detective skills. All he had to do was snap a few pics of them in secret. No detective work required there.

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

I hope he gets better and in which case I'll agree with you. My problem is two fold. One, people on here believe he is a great dective when in the movie it didn't show it. Two, he should have been training to be a great dective since childhood, that is what Batman did. Starting at 29 or 30 to become a dective compared to reading and studying criminals and dective work from a child is a problem in my book. So, maybe he will become better but my point is he should have trained himself more from the begining, not just as an adult. That's why I don't view this as a Batman movie, it's just a vigilante movie, a guy who one day gets pissed and does something about it. Batman becomes Batman the night his parents are born, not at age 29.

Fair enough. In fact, you establish your point of view so well that it's hard to not understand it! I kid you not haha!I understand you problems with Begins and hope that they will be fixed for TDK!

 

[MacLeod]

Fair enough. In fact, you establish your point of view so well that it's hard to not understand it! I kid you not haha!I understand you problems with Begins and hope that they will be fixed for TDK!

I appreciate your understanding. Now, even if TDK does make his detective skills better, and even show better fight scenes for that matter, my new and unfortunate problem is the suit. I saw the promotional shots of the TDK suit and I can't believe how much I hate it. There isn't a thing I like on it, it's a chest plate and it's horrible in my opinion. This new start to the franchise has done nothing but upset me more. There isn't a thing about the these two movies that make me believe it's Batman.

 

[rory_bat]

Nolan got nothing wrong. Begins is perfect and the best super hero film to date (until Jul 08 ).