The Dark Knight Things you noticed the second time

[Team Andino]

That Two-Face was actually asleep, and was just waking up when the Joker was raising his bed, and that is why he didn't react to him being there until he took the mask thingy off. I just thought he was being stupid before. xD

I noticed it my first time an have honestly lost count how many times I had t explain this to people. For some reason people didn't catch on that he was asleep.

 

[Harleen Quinzel]

I noticed it my first time an have honestly lost count how many times I had t explain this to people. For some reason people didn't catch on that he was asleep.

Yeah, I felt really, really stupid when I noticed it, because it was so obvious, though I think the reason I didn't was because first time around, I was trying to find out what the Joker was humming, haha.

I think its his other eye, the one on the burned side. Since he has no eyelid, it looks like he was awake, and looking at the Joker, but really he was asleep, and its just because it doesn't close.

 

[CJ]

It's been mentioned before that Harvey and Bruce are two sides of the same coin. (I think it was said by Nolan in an interview, idk where I read it)

The hospital scene where Joker gives Harvey his gun. It looks like the same model that Bruce intended to use on Joe Chill in Batman Begins. (Obviously it's not the same gun, Joker would have no way to get ahold of it.)

 

[Team Andino]

The more I watch TDK, the more I feel like Bruce's expectations of Rachel were bordering on unrealistic and perhaps unfair to boot.

Agreed. He was pretty selfish if you think about it.

The thing is at the end of Batman Begins Rachael tells him that when Gotham no longer needs Batman they could be together. Bruce wanted more then anything to have Harvey take his mantle as Gotham's savior an let Bruce live a normal life with the woman he loved. Remember he asks her in TDK if she meant what she said an it only reinforced Bruce's thinking that she'd wait for him when he was done, hence why he was so adamant about having Harvey do what Bruce does but without a mask.

 

[ALittlePush]

When Batman says to Joker "what were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you? You're alone." I have always viewed that as an indirect reference to Harley Quinn.

 

[Brother Jack]

It's been mentioned before that Harvey and Bruce are two sides of the same coin. (I think it was said by Nolan in an interview, idk where I read it)

They aren't two sides of the same coin as much as they are mirrors of each other. Batman and the Joker fit the coin metaphor much better.

When Batman says to Joker "what were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you? You're alone." I have always viewed that as an indirect reference to Harley Quinn.

I have not.

 

[Bats]

When Batman says to Joker "what were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you? You're alone." I have always viewed that as an indirect reference to Harley Quinn.

I always thought it was a reference to when Joker asks Gordon "Does it depress you, commissioner? To know just how alone you really are?"

 

[Harleen Quinzel]

When Batman says to Joker "what were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you? You're alone." I have always viewed that as an indirect reference to Harley Quinn.

How would that be a reference to Harley? Even if Harley did pop up along the line somewhere, this doesn't seem like a reference.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The thing is at the end of Batman Begins Rachael tells him that when Gotham no longer needs Batman they could be together. Bruce wanted more then anything to have Harvey take his mantle as Gotham's savior an let Bruce live a normal life with the woman he loved. Remember he asks her in TDK if she meant what she said an it only reinforced Bruce's thinking that she'd wait for him when he was done, hence why he was so adamant about having Harvey do what Bruce does but without a mask.

And that doesn't sit well with me.

Bruce Wayne would give up his mission to clean up Gotham over a ****ing girl? That is not Batman.

Batman sacrifices EVERYTHING to continue his mission. That is what Batman is all about.

Now that I've thought about it even more, that is a MASSIVE thing that bring's TDK down for me.

 

[Harleen Quinzel]

I agree, I think it was selfish of Bruce to put that much pressure on Rachel. It wasn't fair on her.

 

[ALittlePush]

How would that be a reference to Harley? Even if Harley did pop up along the line somewhere, this doesn't seem like a reference.

Joker corrupted Harley and made her just like him. (What were you trying to prove? That deep down everyone's as ugly as you") She also tends to be his companion. (You're alone.")

It's not an indirect reference like how "should do fine against cats" is an indirect reference to Catwoman. It is more an indirect reference in a roundabout way. Kind of referencing by stating the opposite.

Does that make sense? It's quite hard to explain and in all honesty, I've probably read to much into that line. However, I've tried to explain why I thought it might be a reference.

 

[Team Andino]

And that doesn't sit well with me.

Bruce Wayne would give up his mission to clean up Gotham over a ****ing girl? That is not Batman.

Batman sacrifices EVERYTHING to continue his mission. That is what Batman is all about.

Now that I've thought about it even more, that is a MASSIVE thing that bring's TDK down for me.

What makes Batman Begins an The Dark Knight even better IMO is how we see Bruce slowly transform into Batman. In the beginning of BB he had no path an was lost an slowly he got guidance an found his path an at the end of Begins had begun his path to truly becoming Batman. In the middle of TDK he's almost there but still would quite if he could be with Rachael an once she died an Alfred said "Rachael believed in what you stood for, what we STAND for" was a calling of sorts to Bruce that despite the face that he can't do this to save Rachael anymore he can still do it cause this is what he believed an its what needs to be done. Remember how Batman was tricked by Joker into believing he was saving Rachael instead if actually going to Dent's location? That was Batman not knowing how vicious an chaotic Joker can be, but by the end of TDK you can tell he's learned from his mistakes "Its not that simple, with the Joker it never is". He knew things were more complicated an IMO in that last scene in the pruwit building he's him finally becoming Batman. He's not on a new mental level now that Rachael's gone, he's got innocent hostages to save, needs to stop Joker, an soon will have Two Face to deal with. To me the Batman we all know an love is finally here by the time TDK ends an that come BB3 we'll see a complete movie featuring a Batman not doing things for Rachael but for the city that cost his parents life an once again will have found his path an remember his true mission

 

[Harleen Quinzel]

Joker corrupted Harley and made her just like him. (What were you trying to prove? That deep down everyone's as ugly as you") She also tends to be his companion. (You're alone.")

It's not an indirect reference like how "should do fine against cats" is an indirect reference to Catwoman. It is more an indirect reference in a roundabout way. Kind of referencing by stating the opposite.

Does that make sense? It's quite hard to explain and in all honesty, I've probably read to much into that line. However, I've tried to explain why I thought it might be a reference.

I can see what you mean by the roundabout kind of way, but I don't think it was intended to be percieved that way.

I don't really think the Joker did corrupt Harley - he was just spinning her a line, playing a joke, and seeing if she would believe. I don't believe he set out to make her be a hench wench, or girlfriend, and whatnot. Of course, that totally backfired on him, and she fell in crazy fangirlish love.

Don't worry, you made perfect sense. xD

 

[BrazilianBatFan]

What makes Batman Begins an The Dark Knight even better IMO is how we see Bruce slowly transform into Batman. In the beginning of BB he had no path an was lost an slowly he got guidance an found his path an at the end of Begins had begun his path to truly becoming Batman. In the middle of TDK he's almost there but still would quite if he could be with Rachael an once she died an Alfred said "Rachael believed in what you stood for, what we STAND for" was a calling of sorts to Bruce that despite the face that he can't do this to save Rachael anymore he can still do it cause this is what he believed an its what needs to be done. Remember how Batman was tricked by Joker into believing he was saving Rachael instead if actually going to Dent's location? That was Batman not knowing how vicious an chaotic Joker can be, but by the end of TDK you can tell he's learned from his mistakes "Its not that simple, with the Joker it never is". He knew things were more complicated an IMO in that last scene in the pruwit building he's him finally becoming Batman. He's not on a new mental level now that Rachael's gone, he's got innocent hostages to save, needs to stop Joker, an soon will have Two Face to deal with. To me the Batman we all know an love is finally here by the time TDK ends an that come BB3 we'll see a complete movie featuring a Batman not doing things for Rachael but for the city that cost his parents life an once again will have found his path an remember his true mission

I agree with you 100%. In the third installment we'll see our Dark Knight/Caped Crusader totally formed and at the top of his game. That's why I keep hoping there will be another Nolan take on Batman.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

I think the next movie will close the trilogy of how batman comes to be who he is. All the choices are made and clear with him. He wont have to deal with the moral dilemmas of doing what he does. His mission and path are clear.

I think Nolan has far more planned for batman in the future than what people think.

 

[Bads316]

That Batman calls Fox by name in front of Engel

 

[Team Andino]

That Batman calls Fox by name in front of Engel

I noticed it my second time to but its no big deal to me since Engel had just been speared by Batman an had already had a hectic night. Besides he probably couldn't understand what he said with the Batman voice

(for the record the voice doesn't bother me but I know it does bother a lot of people on here)

 

[BestGirl]

Fox even sounds like it could be a code name.

 

[[A]]

Fantastic Mr Fox

 

[Drz]

That Batman calls Fox by name in front of Engel

Hehe yeah i remember when i noticed that out, but then the smarter people just noted it works perfectly as a code name.

 

[CJ]

I'm a massive idiot for not realizing these two the first time.

After Fox says "trouble on the floor above" there's a sonar scene where a man co<ks (stupid swear filter) a gun in the back of a crowd. When I first saw the movie, I assumed that the entire group was comprised of Joker's men, ready to shoot down all of the SWAT Team members when they arrived. I just realized a few months back, that the guy cocking his gun was hiding behind the hostages, ready to fire at the Swat team, so the Swat team would assume it was the hostages who were firing at them, and then return fire.

Also, for the longest time, I couldn't understand why the title scene was made up of blue fire. Then it hit me. The Joker uses fire throughout the movie. (setting Lau on fire, Harvey's face on fire, the firetruck on fire) The blue flames represented The Joker, and the Bat symbol was Batman putting out the flames of The Joker's chaos.

 

[RustyCage]

Fox even sounds like it could be a code name.

Yeah, I got that feeling too, like it just sounded like a codename so it wasn't a big deal. Especially since he's themed after a bat. Maybe he has other animal friends for all the public knows.

After Fox says "trouble on the floor above" there's a sonar scene where a man co<ks (stupid swear filter) a gun in the back of a crowd. When I first saw the movie, I assumed that the entire group was comprised of Joker's men, ready to shoot down all of the SWAT Team members when they arrived. I just realized a few months back, that the guy cocking his gun was hiding behind the hostages, ready to fire at the Swat team, so the Swat team would assume it was the hostages who were firing at them, and then return fire.

Nice catch!

 

[CJ]

^Losing Rachel was obviously a big deal, but I think it was the scarring that put him completely over the edge. He obviously was never going to work in politics again, it was unlikely any other woman would have him, people were going to be staring at him on the street for the rest of his life...I think most anyone would lose it, though not necessarily to that extent.

I disagree. I think losing Rachel was the reason he went nuts. Gordon said that Harvey was refusing to accept skin-grafts. I think if Harvey did accept the skin-grafts, his face wouldn't have looked so hideous. But with Rachel gone, Harvey didn't see the point. He didn't care about anything anymore. He didn't care what he looked like, or whether he lived or died. Nothing mattered.

 

[RustyCage]

And that doesn't sit well with me.

Bruce Wayne would give up his mission to clean up Gotham over a ****ing girl? That is not Batman.

Batman sacrifices EVERYTHING to continue his mission. That is what Batman is all about.

Now that I've thought about it even more, that is a MASSIVE thing that bring's TDK down for me.

The character is still growing in to that mindset, Ace.

I find it weird that so many people expect him to automatically be a fully formed Batman, straight out of TDKReturns or something. This is very early in his career, and he's still learning things about himself and the mission. They're telling the story step by step, from the beginning, showing his evolution. I thought this was obvious.

 

[The Joker]

Where did you dig that post up from, Rusty? Ace has been banned for months now.